Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/James Nesbitt/archive2

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by SandyGeorgia 19:36, 22 August 2009 [1].

James Nesbitt

Nominator(s): Bradley0110 (talk) 14:03, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Previously failed FAC in April due to a single user's general opposition to the doctrine of fair use. This article has since had another helpful peer review and some extra copyedits to be sure that it will look very nice nestled in with the rest of Wikipedia's best work. Enjoy. Bradley0110 (talk) 14:03, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment To be honest, the FAC failure in April was probably due to lack of supports (one only), rather than to one editor's interpretation of fair use. I did the peer review before that FAC, and I see the article has been reviewed again by Ruhrfisch, which is always good news. But, going back to my old review, Ealdgyth added a comment that hardly any of your online references had access dates. That still appears to be the case, and I would advise that you rectify this before the lady comes a-visiting. In general, a speedy read-through indicates a good quality article. I'm going to read it carefully, for nitpicks, in the next couple of days, and hope then to upgrade to full support. Brianboulton (talk) 20:48, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

All of the web-only refs have access dates. Hard-copy published sources with online convenience links don't require these as the content will not change. Thanks for your comments so far, I look forward to your return in a couple of days! Bradley0110 (talk) 21:14, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Leaning to support:': I have read through, and the article is mostly fine. Here are the quibbles:-

Lead
"breakthrough" television role is followed quite soon by "breakthrough" film role. Could this repetition be avoided by saying "his first significant film role" or something similar?

"gained Nesbitt a Best Actor nomination twice" → "twice gained Nesbitt a Best Actor nomination"

Acting career: "He played the Dukes" in As You Like It Should this be "Duke" (I can only recall one)?

~~Cold Feet and early films~~
- ~~Perhaps some description of Kirk Jones? "...film director Kirk Jones"?~~

*Bloody Sunday

- "Critical reception differed." I take it you mean critical comments varied, some good, some not so good. But you only state that Nesbitt received awards and nominations. So what was the adverse criticism?

**Who is Aileen Blaney? I think that the verbatim quote from Blainey is too long, and could be paraphrased.

Murphy's Law
"These new dramatic elements to the series..." Plural, but you have only given one element.

"Reimagined"? Is there such a word?

Dramatic roles in 2004-05
"Nesbitt enjoyed working with Allen, and complimented his directing style." Do you compliment a "style", or do you compliment someone for their style?

Although "11 years" is OK Wiki-wise, I think "eleven years" would look better here.

Other projects: This sentence is not quite right: "As a film awards presenter, he hosted the IFTA Awards ceremony for three consecutive years between 2005 and 2007, the British Independent Film Awards since 2005, and the 2nd National Movie Awards in 2008." Subtle change of tense in the middle. I believe that changing "since" to "from" would resolve it.

~~Personal life: almost too trivial to mention, but the link should be on the first rather than the second mention of Manchester United.~~

I don't think the above will cause problems, and I'll be happy to give full support when they are fixed. An excellent BLP. Brianboulton (talk) 22:47, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

WereSpielChequers already got a couple of those minor errors. Re AYLI, yes, he doubled-up to play both dukes. Barry's Amusements is already mentioned in "Early life" but I've added a reminder on its second mention. Re "critcal reception differed", I meant it differed from the popular reaction (BAFTA didn't throw eggs at him!) so I've clarified this. I've cut down the Blaney quote and added an explanatory note of who she is. All the other minor corrections have been cleaned up. Thanks again for your comments! Bradley0110 (talk) 10:52, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support: You have resolved all my points except one, which you might look at again. "Critical reception differed from popular opinion" still doesn't tell us what this difference was. The sense I get is that critical reception was more favourable than popular opinion; if that is the case, could you say that? I also did a slight tweak, and perhaps a few others would improve the article even further, but overall I believe it matches the FA criteria. Good work, worth the effort. Brianboulton (talk) 18:26, 2 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've completely rephrased the sentence now. Thanks very much for all your help. Bradley0110 (talk) 21:04, 2 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support ~~Query~~ Nice read but would you mind checking "British soldiers returning home from a six-year tour in Basra" - it could of course be poetic license in the program mentioned, but in real life my understanding was that tours lasted 6 months. Also since this is FAC I feel I ought to raise this - you have a photo of him facing out of the page and I thought that MOS preferred them facing in - which would encourage that photo to be aligned left. Please tell me if I'm over pedantic on that but I thought I'd start the discussion on the matter. PS I've also done some tweaks, hope you like them, if not, its a wiki. Ϣere SpielChequers 13:20, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Re Occupation, you're right. It's just been phrased that way in the article since the series was announced last year. I've rephrased it now that it has been broadcast and the character arcs clarified. As for the photo, I'll just play the "MOS:IMAGES is just a guideline" card that recommends the images face into the text. Since it's a 3/4 profile, I don't think it's too much of a problem to have him facing "out" of the article (compare with the photo in the Stephen Moyer article), at least until a good left-facing image comes along. Thanks for your copyedits and comments! Bradley0110 (talk) 13:49, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome Ϣere SpielChequers 13:55, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I will pile on here as well. This is a bit where conflicting guidelines come into play: MOS:IMAGES states Infoboxes are to be on the right, yet states right-facing images are to be on the left. Since the image resides in the Infobox, it is fine to go with the Infobox guideline. Jappalang (talk) 05:23, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments - sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 13:52, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Image review: single Infobox image is appropriately licensed. Jappalang (talk) 05:23, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Leaning to support: This is really informative with all the content needed. I think it may need a minor copyedit still by another editor to ensure that it is polished for FA. It is a big shame about fair use but I've at least uploaded a few images which are useable to add something... Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 11:44, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I've removed the V Festival image since the quality really is too poor to improve the article. Bradley0110 (talk) 15:38, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support ~~Comments~~ - ~~I have just started a lookover and tweaking some straightforward things as I go - please revert if I inadvertently change the meaning. Looking good so far. I will post queries below.~~ No deal-breakers stood out, made some minor changes. Good work. Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:47, 13 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks very much. Bradley0110 (talk) 15:20, 13 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - Most of the sources seem to be used properly. Just a few minor things:

1. Wiki "He completed his primary education at Blagh primary school"

1. Source "James had been educated at Lisnamurrican and Blagh primary schools before going to Coleraine Academical Institution"

2. "began a degree in French at the University of Ulster's Jordanstown" I could not find "French" in the source. This source mentions the French studies, but it says at Belfast and implies that he didn't stay long.

3. Wiki "His father suggested that he should move to England if he wanted to continue acting, so Nesbitt enrolled at the Central School of Speech and Drama (CSSD) in London"

3. Source "He soon dropped out, deciding instead to head for London and the Central School of Speech and Drama." I don't see any mention of his father.

4. Wiki "supporting roles on television in episodes of Boon, The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles, Covington Cross, Lovejoy, and Between the Lines. In 1993, he appeared in Love Lies Bleeding, an instalment of the BBC anthology series Screenplay and his first appearance in a production directed by Michael Winterbottom; he later appeared in Go Now (1995), Jude (1996) and Welcome to Sarajevo (1997)." I could not find "Boon", "The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles", "Covington Cross", etc, in the source.

5. Wiki "cross-dressing Unionist politician Walter Adair"

5. Source (this is somewhat okay as the language is hard to change) "cross-dressing Unionist politician"

6. Wiki "He played Jimmy Hands, an inept bank robber who masterminds an escape from a prison by staging a musical as a distraction"

6. Source differs by not mentioning a musical while using some similar phrasing for the rest - "Nesbitt plays Jimmy Hands, an inept robber who plans a jailbreak with his motley band of co-prisoners"

7. "Nesbitt is a patron of Wave, a charity set up to support those traumatised by the Troubles. The charity faced closure due to funding problems before Nesbitt encouraged celebrities and artists to become involved." I cannot find "the Troubles" directly referred to (it can be inferred) and I cannot find that the charity was failing or faced closure in the source.

- There are a lot of sources and I was only able to spot check about 1/3rd of them. Ottava Rima (talk) 18:57, 14 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Reply to Ottava Rima

1. I don't understand the concern.

2. I have added a citation supporting the French degree. Jordanstown is the suburb of Belfast where Nesbitt's university campus was located (the location is supported by Starrett).

3. I've added an extra citation to support his father suggesting the move.

4. The other TV appearances are supported by the primary sources (the credits of the shows themselves) and can be verified by the professionally maintained BFI filmogaphy in the external links section. The statement itself that he appeared in supporting TV roles is uncontroversial, so should not require a secondary citation.

5. I thought the same; "cross-dressing Unionist politician" is a nice succinct description.

6. The musical is a part of the film so does not require a secondary reference. I've rephrased the other part of the sentence (I think the use of "inept" was the problem).

7. "Wave's key worker Alan McBride [...] explained that Wave was having to lay people off and in danger of folding through lack of funds" (appears a couple of paragraphs below the second subheading). I thought the inference was enough but can add an extra citation if it's a problem.

Thanks for your comments. I'll have a look through the rest of the article and check phrasing isn't too similar to sources or if some don't match up. Bradley0110 (talk) 19:43, 14 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The first one is to point out that the source mentions two schools and only one is mentioned in the wiki article. If you want to rework fine some, you could say "cross-dressing member of the ___ party" or "cross-dressing politician of the ___ party". Also, I see the folding now. Ottava Rima (talk) 20:15, 14 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ah. The opening sentences refer to his first school (Lisnamurrican). As for the rephrasing, I like your suggestions but I haven't seen the film so don't know whether the character is a politician who supports the union, or if he is a political representative of a unionist party (DUP, etc). The Unionism in Ireland link encompasses both. Bradley0110 (talk) 20:35, 14 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've fixed all outstanding citations and attributions, have cut down several direct quotes, and have reformulated sentences that are too similar to the original source. Bradley0110 (talk) 18:42, 19 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Can't speak to the reference issues, though they look to be well in hand; prose seems good (i've made a couple of minor tweaks), and coverage seems thorough, particularly in identifying and coherently integrating critical reviews of tv and films etc. hamiltonstone (talk) 05:40, 15 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Quotations need to have a citation at the end of the sentence in which they are contained. For example, in the first paragraph of the Early life and education section, there are several sentences that contain quotes; at a slightly later point, two citations are used. It is impossible for the reader to know which of the citations covers each quote. Karanacs (talk) 18:15, 18 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've fixed the ambigulously-cited quotations. The "When I first came to drama school I was a Paddy the minute I walked in. And I remember going to drama school and them all saying to me, 'Aww, yeah, Brits out', and I was like 'It's a wee bit more complicated than that, you know.'" quote is covered by both citations. Bradley0110 (talk) 18:38, 18 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.