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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted 17:48, 22 May 2008.

Jack Marsh

[edit]

An article on the first indigenous Australian to play first-class cricket. Jack Marsh was the subject of racism rows, and he was accused of illegal bowling technique. This led to the early end of his career and sparked controversy over whether he was discriminated against. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 07:42, 16 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support done a little tinkering, would be nice to stubify those redlinks (might get started on that later today) but overall I can't find anything amiss. SGGH speak! 08:42, 16 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment "The selection made him the first Australian indigenous first-class cricketer." No, see [1] & [2].

Phanto282 (talk) 11:43, 16 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the pick-up. Teh book said "first indig in interstate cric" - Obviously I didn't pick up the subtlety about it meaning post-1901 cricketers. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Random comments

  • >> Marsh dismissed Australian Cricket Hall of Fame members and Test cricketers Victor Trumper and Monty Noble, but was called for throwing.

Get rid of the "Australian HoF members". Very awkward

Done. I shouldn't have put that in the lead anyway.
  • >> Marsh was called a total of 17 times during the innings, the most in a single instance in Australia.

Use "innings" or "match" intead of instance

Done. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:25, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • >> As a result, Marsh was effectively excluded from the Australian side and his first-class career was limited to just six matches in which he took 34 wickets at an average of 21.47.[30] In later years, Marsh experimented with the googly. The Australian Test batsman and captain Warren Bardsley rated Marsh alongside Fred Spofforth and England's Sydney Barnes.[2] The comparison to Barnes was praise indeed; Barnes was the only bowler in Test history with over 120 wickets to have a bowling average under 20, with 189 wickets at an average of just 16.43.[31] Bardsley said that the only reason that Marsh was "kept . . . out of big cricket was his color".[1]

The line about the googly breaks the flow. Either the comparison with Barnes should be moved elsewhere (or to a new paragraph), or the googly thing should be moved. Tintin 14:44, 16 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

done Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:25, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

  • Two of your printed references are lacking publishers: Armstrong and Cashman.
Sources look good. Links checked out fine. Ealdgyth - Talk 15:49, 16 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Mattinbgn has kindly fixed this. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from User:Mattinbgn

As always, this is another great article from Blnguyen.

  • Would a link for "racial discrimination" be appropriate?
Done. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "he also traveled interstate to race" - anachronism? - New South Wales, Queensland and Victoria were not states at this time.
Done, asleep again. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Marsh also gained prominence in the inner-southern Sydney suburb of La Perouse, which had a large indigenous population, while demonstrating his boomerang skills" - this reads a little clumsily.
Done. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Following its merged with South Sydney, Marsh then played for Sydney Cricket Club" - grammar error?
Done, asleep again. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Sydney Cricket Club" - the Sydney Cricket Club linked is the renamed Balmain Cricket Club and not the Sydney Cricket Club that Marsh would have played for.
The content of the article seems to indicate that they are talking about the same club, because it mentions playing against Easts and Paddington. Marsh is recorded as playing against Paddington. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, looking again, it seems as though from reading the SCC article, that the old BCC and the SCC that the author refers to are the same thing, becuase the history talks about a BCC at the turn of the century. So it seems they are the same - maybe the author mixed up his names? Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:11, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I am still not convinced they are the same club. Balmain CC had a long and proud history (and Balmain the suburb was fiercely parochial - see Neville Wran and "Balmain Boys Don't Cry"); I would be surprised if; (a) The club changed its name from Sydney to Balmain and then 100 years later changed it back or (b) the RS used the modern name for the club rather than the correct name at the time. However, I have a proposed solution: perhaps the Sydney Cricket Club article could include a sentence to effect of "At the turn of the 19th century, a club by the name of Sydney Cricket Club was in existence and playing regular fixtures. Based at (Moore Park???) players included Jack Marsh, etc.)" Your thoughts? -- Mattinbgn\talk 01:39, 20 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
done. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 02:13, 20 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "a Colts XV", this will need explanation in some form for non-cricket aficionados
Done. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "because Curran withdrew from his position by lunch on the second day" - would "the lunch break" be clearer and perhaps a link to List of cricket terms.
Done. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "just a month after he was no-balled" - replace "no-balled" with "called for throwing" - more specific
Done. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "which remains the highest individual score compiled at the Adelaide Oval in a Sheffield Shield match." This claim needs an inline citation
Done. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "before sailing to an innings victory" - sailing is colloquial, I would also consider a link for the term "innings victory"
Done. But where is the article about cricket margins of victory? I can't see it at List of cricket terms, Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I generally use Result (cricket)#Statement of result -- Mattinbgn\talk 01:39, 20 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Thanks, Blnguyen (bananabucket) 02:13, 20 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Marsh bowled six of his opponents" - linked bowled
This was already linked in an earlier instance. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "...his action was passed Sammy Jones as being fair" - grammar needs correction
Done, asleep again. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • The paragraph starting "Certain hypotheses were presented for Crockett's actions." terms such as "certain quarters", "cynics" etc. seem vague. Is there any way we can be more specific about the people who put forward these conspiracy theories?
Unfortunately Whimpress did not attribute these theories to their owners and adherents. I did tweak some of the words to make it sound less suspicious but do feel free to tweaj as necessary. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:34, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "raised eyebrows among cricket observers" - Is "raised eyebrows" a little colloquial?
Done. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Marsh and Henry dismissed one another, each being bowled for nine to create a symmetry in the scorecard." - Is this encyclopaedic enough for inclusion?
Well the book actually noted that! I didn't make my own noting from the scorecard. But feel free to remove if it is silly. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:25, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Once again, great work. -- Mattinbgn\talk 02:47, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Conditional Support.GrahamColmTalk 17:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Issues resolved GrahamColmTalk 17:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I see that some of the comments made above have been addressed and I have made some suggestions here:[3].

  • Who was Sammy Jones? He is only mentioned once and in a sentence that is not grammatical.
Done, asleep again. Mentioned that he is the second umpire. They umpire in pairs. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I find the use of the English and Englishmen odd in places. Would English side or English team be better?
I'm not sure why they would be odd, but I don;t mind if you change them. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:34, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Lastly, Certain hypotheses is a little vague.
I changed this to various, since there were a few of them. I replied to a general remark about this in Mattinbgn's section above. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:34, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
This is an engaging article and one that I will be pleased to support once the reviewers' comments have been actioned. Well done. GrahamColmTalk 16:46, 18 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Provisional Support - Not only an interesting read, but a high-quality one. These are all the problems I could find, not counting a few already mentioned above.

  • "and had was overlooked for national selection." Second word needs to go.
Done, asleep again. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Club cricket: "Marsh also collected the prized scalps of Test batsmen and future Australian captains Monty Noble and Syd Gregory." There are complaints above about informal language, and "collected the prized scalps" may be another example.
Fixed, Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:25, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reaction to Crockett: "that he felt himself to be ready to officiate in Test matches." I think it would sound better in a shorter version: "that he felt ready to officiate in Test matches."
Done. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "which organized and the sponsored English tours to Australia". Say good-bye to "the".
Done, asleep again. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Later years: "In retirement ," Comma has to be moved.
Done, asleep again. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just like Graham, I will fully support once all concerns have been addressed. Great job. Giants2008 (talk) 20:19, 18 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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