Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Hurricane Walaka/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 30 November 2020 [1].

Hurricane Walaka

Nominator(s): Noah^Talk 14:06, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about Hurricane Walaka, a Category 5 hurricane that destroyed East Island, Hawaii. While it didn't really affect populated regions, it did destroy an island with its storm surge. Noah^Talk 14:06, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Hurricanehink

Support ~~Oppose~~for now, but that's only because the article is short and I have a few nitpicks. It shouldn't be too hard to address these.

Where is the source for the first two sentences?

While Hurdat supports this, I have removed any mention of this as it seems trivial in retrospect to mention the second, third, fourth, fifth, etc.. Where does it end? Especially considering CPHC didn't mention it. I have changed this to mention the powerful storm surge (and the high surf you highlight below). Noah^Talk 16:48, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"The nineteenth named storm, twelfth hurricane, eighth major hurricane, and second Category 5 hurricane of the 2018 Pacific hurricane season" - It isn't custom to have refs in the lead. Could you put the ref from the 3rd sentence somewhere in the body of the article? Also, that's a lot to have as a clause beginning a sentence. It would be better to have 'Walaka was the nineteenth..."

Split the sentences, but I would have to mention all of that info again and cite it in the body if I were to remove the ref from the lead. I don't know if that is worth mentioning all of that outside of an introduction. Noah^Talk 16:48, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Walaka originated from an area of low pressure that formed over a thousand miles south-southeast of Hawaii on September 24" - could you reword it without mentioning miles for our metric friends worldwide? Also, link LPA

Linked and mentioned specific distances to avoid anything subjective. Noah^Talk 18:48, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Is it worth linking major hurricane somewhere in the lead?

Done. Noah^Talk 18:48, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"The National Hurricane Center (NHC) first forecasted that a low-pressure area would form around 130–140° west on September 22, 2018" - correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the past tense of "forecast" is still "forecast". Also, did the NHC make the forecast on 9/22, or is that when the LPA was forecast to form?

Forecast and forecasted are both technically correct, but I changed it to forecast as MLA and APA decided to oppose forecasted being used. I moved the date to the beginning to avoid confusion. Noah^Talk 18:48, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder, is mentioning the temperature of the convection a bit too much detail? There isn't a lot of context for why it's important, and it could come across as jargon to non-mets.

Removed any value mentioning. Noah^Talk 18:18, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Given how short the article is, I'm wondering if you need the image of Walaka as a C1, since it adds some whitespace to the article.

Removed it. Noah^Talk 18:15, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Could you mention the storm's proximity to Johnston Atoll in the MH? Also, were there any effects there? It might be better separating Johnston Atoll from the NW Hawaiian Island impacts, since the landmasses are pretty distinct.

I can separate them if you think it is important. I couldn't find anything beyond the threat/evacuations. One source mentioned some kind of impact, but didn't give much detail and looked unreliable. Noah^Talk 16:48, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Walaka made landfall as a high-end Category 3 hurricane approximately 35 mi (55 km) west-northwest of French Frigate Shoals at 06:20 UTC on October 4." - could you link landfall? Also, how can it make landfall west of a landmass? Did it actually strike land?

@Hurricanehink: Should I ignore the CPHC on their calling this a landfall as it is grossly inaccurate or add a note about their definition that applies solely to this TCR? Noah^Talk 16:48, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'll note that the CPHC puts "landfall" in quotations. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 16:58, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I will change it to avoid the landfall. Noah^Talk 18:15, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What turned Walaka back to the northeast after its NW turn?

Mentioned the upper-level trough. Noah^Talk 19:11, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Don't link Hawaiian monk seals twice

Fixed. Noah^Talk 18:15, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The article doesn't mention any impacts in the state of Hawaii, but given how large it was, I'm sure there was. Here is a story about high surf and lifeguard rescues. NCDC has more about the high surf.

Mentioned the surf from NCDC, but it doesn't appear much impact occurred in Hawaii. I checked through several pages of sources, but found very little for Hawaii's main islands. That's likely due to Walaka being nearly or over 1000 miles away from them. Noah^Talk 20:33, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

According to this, East Island is slowly rebuilding.

I added a sentence in for that. I would have mentioned the reefs too, but it doesn't appear the article directly links the algae to Walaka. Noah^Talk 20:02, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 15:16, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Some questions for you... Should I mention the season relation in the met and move the ref there? Past articles have left the ref in the lead. Also, should the Johnston Atoll be separated since it was just evacuations? Noah^Talk 18:48, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm fine with it in the lead, but see if anyone else has any strong feelings. And since there were no impacts in Johnston, you can leave it where it is. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 13:45, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Hurricanehink: In addition to the questions I listed directly above, is there anything else you feel should be adjusted or added? Noah^Talk 20:33, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Image review—pass

Images are freely licensed, no other issues. (t · c) buidhe 01:59, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Destroyeraa

After some tidbits that Noah did, and some clarification, I support the promotion of this article. Good work Hurricane Noah. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 02:05, 16 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Link storm surge in the first sentence of the lede

Linked. Noah^Talk 16:18, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

2018 PHS seems to be hyperactive. You should reflect that in the second sentence if you want.

I'm going to avoid doing this as it isn't really important to this storm individually. The season article highlights the overall excessive activity. The relation of the storm to the season is mentioned. Noah^Talk 15:51, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It → the storm

Changed, but I did tropical cyclone instead. Noah^Talk 16:18, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Later in the day → Later that day

Changed. Noah^Talk 16:18, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The cyclone took a more northward track - compared to what?

The westward track mentioned earlier in the lead. Noah^Talk 15:51, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

though it remained a powerful storm for the next day or so - this is vague. How powerful and for how long?

Gave a better description. Noah^Talk 16:18, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

How can an island be destroyed?

The storm surge swept all the sand away. It wasn't a large island. More detail is in the body. Noah^Talk 15:51, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'll review the rest later. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 14:54, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

MH

entered the Central Pacific Ocean unofficial, should be something like "entered the Central Pacific Hurricane Center (CPHC)'s area of jurisdiction."

CPHC has used "Central Pacific" numerous times over the years. It isn't really unofficial to say "Central Pacific Ocean" or "Central Pacific Basin". Noah^Talk 02:43, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest changing "Ocean" to "Basin."~ Destroyeraa🌀 14:23, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Noah^Talk 03:14, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Subtropical ridge → link Horse latitudes

Link changed. Noah^Talk 03:14, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What's a stint of rapid intensification?

The word stint means "a period of" in this case. Noah^Talk 02:43, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Walaka's peak intensity made it the second Category 5 hurricane of the 2018 Pacific hurricane season → "This made Walaka the second Category 5 hurricane of the 2020 Pacific hurricane season"

Declining this suggestion as the current sentence is more clear in that it explains what "this" is. Noah^Talk 02:43, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A strengthening low-pressure system located north of Walaka - was this an upper level low?
Hurricane Walaka maintained its peak intensity for six hours → we know it was a hurricane already.

Removed. Noah^Talk 03:14, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The cyclone continued to track northward under the influence of a Pacific upper-level low - mention this before in the "low pressure system" part, remove "Pacific".

Did both of them. Noah^Talk 03:19, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Johnston Island → Johnston Atoll

Not the only island in the Atoll. Noah^Talk 02:43, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

After completing the eyewall cycle, Walaka reintensified slightly, reaching a secondary peak of 145 mph (230 km/h) around 12:00 UTC on October 3. - Pressure?

I don't think the pressure is really that important in this case. We usually don't report pressures other than the peak unless there is a landfall in a populated area. I just don't see what the addition would add context-wise. Noah^Talk 02:43, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Give us another image of Walaka in the MH

Added the image back. Noah^Talk 03:14, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I will address the rest of these tomorrow. Noah^Talk 03:11, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Preps

sought an emergency evacuation on October 1. Was this a mandatory evacuation?

Since the article says "evacuation request", I would say it wasn't mandatory. Noah^Talk 19:44, 12 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So Walaka had mostly an ecological effect. What about human effects?

It didn't actually hit any populated islands. All the scientists left before the storm. The surf and rescues for the main islands are discussed further down in the section. Noah^Talk 19:42, 12 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from SandyGeorgia (Support)

Resolved, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:41, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The National Hurricane Center (NHC) tracked the disturbance for another day or so before it moved into the Central Pacific Basin. This sentence feels odd for reasons I can't put a finger on. Surely they tracked it throughout its history? This feels like a sentence put here to work in a link to the NHC (those darn wikilinks often determine our writing). Is the idea to tell us that one hurricane center tracked it until they passed it off to another? Can that be made more clear? And does it belong in the lead? (These are all questions :) :)

I do state later on in the lead that the storm was named by the CPHC. I can remove all the mention of warning centers from the lead. Noah^Talk 23:17, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Rid thy writing of the unnecessary "then" ... but were then evacuated before the storm hit. Walaka then neared ... or find a better word :) For example:
- Four scientists intended to ride out the storm on the island, but were evacuated before the storm hit. A considerably weakened Walaka next approached the far Northwestern Hawaiian Islands.

I just axed them all as I don't believe they add anything of substance. Noah^Talk 23:17, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Also is almost always redundant ... coral reefs in the region also suffered ... Do the Tony exercises at User:Tony1/How to improve your writing and User:Tony1/Redundancy exercises: removing fluff from your writing.

Removed them all ass well. Noah^Talk 23:17, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please ! No ass welling in here ! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:19, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

LOL... the key must have stuck for that one. I axed a bunch of things I felt weren't essential to the writing. I don't see anything else that should be removed. Noah^Talk 23:31, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Necessitating, ugh! The storm brought high surf to the main Hawaiian Islands, necessitating the rescue of several dozen people off the southern shore of Oahu. --> Several dozen people had to be rescued off the southern shore of Oahu as the storm brought high surf to the main Hawaiian Islands. Why use big words if you don't have to ?

Sorry... I guess I like using big and complicated words... I recently used tumultuous in a paper title. I linked Oahu as it wasn't linked before. Noah^Talk 23:17, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Skipping down ... (didn't read the middle ... but watch for similar ... )

In data heavy articles, using "respectively" just gives the reader more to deal with. a hurricane watch and warning were issued for the Johnston Atoll on September 30 and October 1, respectively. --> A hurricane watch was issued for Johnston Atoll on September 30 and was upgraded to a hurricane warning on October 1.

Fixed. Noah^Talk 23:17, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Throw-away sentence ... always the case ... Over the next couple of days, the watches and warnings were gradually discontinued.

Removed that sentence. Noah^Talk 23:17, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

evacuate the personnel on the next day. ... on the next day, or the next day ?

Fixed. Noah^Talk 23:17, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:47, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment for myself: Add non-breakings in areas. Noah^Talk 23:17, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Did this. Noah^Talk 23:39, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Continuing

Why is this italicized in the infobox? Highest winds 1-minute sustained:

Changed the template. Noah^Talk 21:26, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The first para in the lead presents as somewhat of an offputting wall of text full of numbers; might you split the first para in to two, like this?

Hurricane Walaka was a Category 5 hurricane that brought high surf and a powerful storm surge to the Hawaiian Islands. The tropical cyclone was the nineteenth named storm, twelfth hurricane, eighth major hurricane, and second Category 5 hurricane of the 2018 Pacific hurricane season.

Walaka originated from an area of low pressure that formed around 1,600 mi (2,575 km) south-southeast of Hawaii on September 24. ...

SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:38, 4 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Split. Noah^Talk 21:26, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support, all my concerns resolved, looks good. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:44, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments From SurenGrig07

I would primarily like to provide various comments concerning the prose of the article, within an attempt to hone my skills in this area; if this would not remain excessively inconvenient, I shall place them here and all commentaries remain open to debate or criticism:

"and powerful storm surge to the Hawaiian Islands" ==> "and a powerful storm surge to the Hawaiian Islands"; absent article.

Indeed it should be "a storm surge". Noah^Talk 10:48, 29 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"track under the influence of a low-pressure" ==> Am I not correct within stating that a comma remains appropriate between "track" and "under"?

I haven't seen it written that way in writing before. Noah^Talk 11:22, 29 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"hurricane with winds of 160 mph (260 km/h) and a pressure of 921 mbar (27.20 inHg) early on October 2" ==> Perhaps the insertion of a comma between "hurricane" and "width", in addition to the millibar measurement and "early", would assist sentence structure.

Added commas. Noah^Talk 11:20, 29 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"banding feature – significantly elongated, curved bands of rain clouds –" and " – an elongated region of low atmospheric pressure – " ==> I would suggest the replacement of the dashes within the sentence as an assisting factor within its structure; though this opinion may remain excessively subjective for the nominator and may not comply with the Manual of Style, I regard these as disruptive to sentence structure.

It is normal to use dashes to set aside additional material, especially in the case of the former. Noah^Talk 10:55, 29 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"The system became Tropical Depression One-C around 12:00 UTC on September 29" ==> "On September 29, at approximately 12:00 UTC, the system became Tropical Depression One-C."

You shouldn't break up sentences with unneeded pauses as it chops off the flow of the prose. Noah^Talk 10:48, 29 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Walaka peaked as a Category 5 hurricane with maximum sustained winds of 160 mph (260 km/h) and a minimum central pressure of 921 mbar (27.20 inHg) at 00:00 UTC on October 2" ==> "Walaka peaked as a Category 5 hurricane on October 2, with maximum sustained winds of..."

Added commas in the one as well. Noah^Talk 11:22, 29 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Walaka made its closest approach to the French Frigate Shoals around 06:20 UTC on October 4" ==> "On October 4, at approximately 6:20 UTC, Walaka..."

Same thing with pauses here. Noah^Talk 10:48, 29 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"a hurricane watch was issued for Johnston Atoll on September 30 and was upgraded to a hurricane warning on October 1." ==> "On September 30, a hurricane watch, upgraded to a hurricane warning on October 1, was issued for Johnson Atoll."

I found this to be confusing to read. Noah^Talk 10:55, 29 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Charles Littnan – director of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's protected species division –" ==> This prompts a similar issue statement with regards to the utilisation of dashes.

See above on dashes. Noah^Talk 10:55, 29 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"6–12 ft (1.8–3.7 m) high surf" ==> Would it remain incorrect to alter this to "a 6-12 ft..."?

It is correct as written. It's standard to use en dashes between ranges of numbers. Noah^Talk 10:48, 29 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I commented concerning the absence of the article; thank you. SurenGrig07 (talk) 04:05, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Added it in. Noah^Talk 04:30, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"that affected the Papahanaumokuakea Marine National Monument, as a tropical storm" ==> "that, while a tropical storm, affected..."

I just removed the comma here as it wasn't needed. Noah^Talk 10:48, 29 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

These primarily remain suggestions and compliance remains, as with all Wikipedia discussions, at the discretion of the author; thank you. SurenGrig07 (talk) 03:08, 29 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@SurenGrig07: Are there any other issues in the article or is it fine now? Noah^Talk 19:30, 12 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi SurenGrig07, will be there be more to come, or are you in a position to either support or oppose? Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 11:30, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The purpose of this section primarily remained the provision of comments concerning issues within the article and I shall not provide support or opposition; thank you. SurenGrig07 (talk) 02:48, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Source Review

Source review - spotchecks not done

FN4: source credits Birchard as "Thomas"; is there a reason to use "Tom"?

Changed. Noah^Talk 12:07, 4 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Is Jelsema's first name John or Jon? You've got both

Fixed. Noah^Talk 12:07, 4 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Check that publication names like Newsweek are italicized throughout

Done. Noah^Talk

Why "The" for NYT but "the" for Guardian?

Fixed. Noah^Talk 12:07, 4 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

FN25: don't see that author credit at the source?

Check the archived version which is the same as it was seen in 2018. Noah^Talk 12:07, 4 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

FN27 should have url status marked as dead. Nikkimaria (talk) 16:01, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Noah^Talk 12:07, 4 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Query for the coordinators

@Gog the Mild: Would it be okay for me to nominate another article? Noah^Talk 19:14, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Hurricane Noah: It certainly would. Go ahead. Gog the Mild (talk) 19:59, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@FAC coordinators: Just wondering if there is anything else that should be done for this nomination. I don't plan on being back until after the Thanksgiving holiday is over. Noah^Talk 18:35, 25 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Ian Rose (talk) 12:16, 30 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.