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History of Poland (1945-1989)

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Partial self-nom. The title sais it all, I believe, at least as far as the content goes. I believe the article meets all of our standards (PR archived recently, comments adressed). For comparison to similar FA articles, see History of post-Soviet Russia, History of Russia or History of Scotland. Your constructive comments, as always, much awaited and appreciated. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 21:53, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

  • Object—needs major NPOVing. I was rubbing my eyes in disbelief after reading just the second sentence, which puts "liberated" in quotes when referring to the liberation of Poland by the Red Army in 1944-45. Seriously, this is loaded with right-wing POV. Everyking 22:05, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    • Removed quotes, although the word liberarated without quotes is also misleading (suggesting that Red Army brings liberty is an oxymoron :)) Any suggestions what term to use here instead? Please give specific examples of other "right-wing POV", I'll be happy to fix them, if you can't - this is, after all, the purpose of this review. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 22:07, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
      • Update: changed to forces of Nazi Germany were driven from Poland by the advancing Red Army of the Soviet Union. This should contain no POVed terms, right, left or otherwise. Better? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 22:27, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
        • Fine, that's NPOVed, but the rest of the article still needs heavy NPOVing. Everyking 23:39, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
          • I'd again ask you to be more specific. Have you even read the rest of the article? If so, please give me specific examples that you deem POVed. The article has passed the PR, and nobody has even once mentioned it is POVed on its talk page. Unless you become more specific, I am afraid you comment is not going to help to improve this article much. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 00:15, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Object, too many grammatical things; but of course these can be fixed. Phoenix2 01:33, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    • As I am not a native speaker, I can do only that much with the language. I hope if you spot any language problems, you will fix them - I, unfortunately, can't help much in that regard - to me the article reads good already. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 10:08, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Object. Let me look through this 7000+ word article. The third sentence is "With little opposition from the Western Allies, who had accepted the fait accompli at the Yalta Conference, Stalin's agents, the Polish Communists, soon forced the opposition (the delegates of the Polish government in exile, the members of the Armia Krajowa resistance movement and any non-communist political parties) to either join them or face being exiled, imprisoned or even murdered." Can you imagine if the post-war history of Italy was written in such a fashion, although it very well could be. It would never survive on Wikipedia, let alone be a featured article. Reading these comments, I see the POV used to start with the second sentence. Also, the English is horrible, with section heads like "The Stalin's era (1945–56)" Ruy Lopez 01:44, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    • I fail to see POV in this sentence. Please help me out. At Yalta, Western Allies accepted Stalin demand's regarding Polish borders and government - fact. Polish communists persecuted their oppositing, up to imprisonment and execution after staged trails - fact. Also, I don't see any 'strong, hotile words' in this sentence, but feel free to rewrite it so it is more NPOV to your liking. And by all means, list other sentences then this you are unhappy in the article.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 10:08, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
      • After reading 172 comments, I agree that 'Stalin agents' is somewhat POVed and incorrect, deleted this phrase. Hopefully, this will make the sentence NPOV enough? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 10:23, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    • Look at the History of Italy as a republic article. The involvement of the USA in Italy was equal to or greater than that of the USSR in Poland, yet you don't see the entire article revolve around this, how horrible Italy's leaders are and whatnot. How come the Italy article doesn't say "With little opposition from the USSR, who had accepted the fait accompli at the Yalta Conference, Roosevelt's agents, the Italian capitalists, soon forced the opposition (the newly formed Italian government, the members of the resistance movement and any non-capitalist political parties) to either join them or face being exiled, imprisoned or even murdered."? I am not interested in that article, I am just using it as a point of comparison to show how POV this article is. Everyking came in and saw super-POV on the second sentence, then I come in and see it on the next sentence. Polls show the vast majority Americans are unhappy with the way things are run in the US, but the USA article doesn't say Americans are wage slaves living under a tyrannical regime with bogus elections and whatnot. Ruy Lopez 13:04, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
      • I am afraid your criticism is not constructive. Comparison of Italy to Poland, or USA is almost pointless - the situation was very different, besides, you are yet again adressing some vague, general issues, not any specific points backed by facts or even POVed words! Your latest posts gives more details on the irrelevant history of Italy - and none about Poland. You write about the 'super POV' which you saw - and still fail to quote specifics of it: I don't even know if the POV you refer to is pro-Polish, anti-Western, pro-Soviet, anti-Communist, pro-aliens from Mars or something else :) I still don't know which part of the sentence that you quoted you consider POVed and why, as you have not responded to my correcred sentence posted above (based on specific and constructive comments by 172 on article's talk page - tnx). Have you even read the article after the second sentence of the lead, or considered that the lead, being a summary, may containt one or two phrases which may need tweaking for more NPOVed words? Please, point me to the exact POVed or erroneus phrases, like "liberation" or "Soviet agents", and I will gladly fix them. But triple please, be specific - or if you consider the article beyond hope, list it on VfD :> --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 14:34, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
      • Trying to establish equivalency between USA involvement in Italy and Soviet involvement in Poland ignores some basic facts. The most fundamental fact of course was that Italy was a democracy, with the Italian Communist Party allowed to compete without much hindrance in free elections (it won 34,4% of the vote in 1976, for example). In Poland all opposition to the Polish United Workers Party was quashed, and certainly no "capitalist" parties were allowed even to exist, never mind compete in fair elections. Balcer 05:24, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)
      • Poland was an ally of Great Britain and USA, while Italy was an enemy. That makes a sight difference ? Lysy 29 June 2005 15:03 (UTC)
  • 'Show's a great deal of promise. I'll try to help Piotrus resolve some of the objections. 172 03:53, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Support - though some sections still need expansion. In particular the later years of the period (Solidarity, Martial Law, Jaruzelski regime etc) need some improvement. A concluding section would also be useful. Balcer 28 June 2005 21:12 (UTC)
    • History of... articles rarely have conclusions (or better said, I haven't seen any yet), but it's an interesting ideas. Still, it would logically have to be something like 'comments on history of...'. Feasible, but I'd like to see it in talk first.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 28 June 2005 21:25 (UTC)
  • Support - comprehensive, informative and well balanced. Lysy 29 June 2005 17:11 (UTC)
  • Support - I am fixing the article now for grammar, but as I looked at the article, it is pretty good explaining the socialist period that took place in Poland. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 30 June 2005 18:31 (UTC)
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