Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Grey Cup/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by GrahamColm 12:47, 3 September 2012 [1].

Grey Cup

Featured article candidates/Grey Cup/archive1

Nominator(s): Reso lute 01:14, 7 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ladies and Gentlemen, I present Canada's other sporting trophy, the championship of Canadian football. The Grey Cup has been broken, stolen, burned in a fire, held for ransom and, oh yeah, won 99 times. Players have nearly drowned trying to win it (really!) and fought through truly ridiculous weather to capture it. The 100th Grey Cup is being played this November, and with that anniversary in mind, I have spent the last couple months working it up to what I hope is featured calibre. And so, I present it to the community, in the hopes that I can lay claim to the first true Canadian football-related FA. Cheers! Reso lute 01:14, 7 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

"It survived a 1947 fire that destroyed numerous artifacts" check spelling
"Artifacts" is the common spelling in Canadian English. Reso lute 23:00, 7 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Deep ruts in the field and poor weather in the days" should that be deep cuts?
That might work too, but I think "ruts" works better, and is a common term in Canada. e.g.: Rut (roads). I am open to alternate phrasing, of course. Reso lute 23:00, 7 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hyphen needed in mid-1950s
"Upset at at losing the 1977 game" remove extra 'at'
"It is named in honour of Dick Suderman, who died of a brain haemorrhage in 1972" I'm not sure if that is the Canadian spelling of the word in bold? Lemonade51 (talk) 18:22, 7 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The last three are errors that have been corrected. Thank you! Reso lute 23:00, 7 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment

Could you make it a bit clearer in the article exactly what type of football this cup is played for? At a first skim read, I figured the Grey Cup must be a trophy for American football, but only when I clicked through the link to the CFL did I discover that it's for Canadian football, something I didn't previously even know existed. Then I noticed that the lead refers to it being a trophy for rugby - was the cup originally a rugby trophy and only became a Canadian football trophy later? If so, when did this happen? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:38, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Facepalm . You know, specifying that this is for Canadian football is so bloody obvious, I never even thought of it. It's all just "football" in North America. Thanks for pointing that out! As to your second question, my being overly precise is probably causing your confusion. The game was still evolving in the Grey Cup's earliest years from the "McGill Rules" (beginning 1874) to what it is today, and was often called "rugby-football" in the early part of the century. I'll simplify to avoid confusion. Reso lute 14:06, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Leaning to support as one who has been to a few himself. A few comments:

Can nothing be said about the mechanism which determined who played for the title in the early years?
Added a blurb at the start of the "Western competition" section.

" to win the last Grey Cup held between two eastern teams." Since it is possible for two eastern teams, presently, to play for the Cup, perhaps don't shut the door quite so definitively.
Fixed.

Was the television audience able to see the game in the Fog Bowl?
I'm not finding anything one way or the other. The Montreal Gazette had extensive coverage the day after the game (ref 39 is to one story), but while there are a couple stories about TV (both on page 20), neither says either way. I think, given the quality of cameras covering live sports back then, it is safe to assume the viewers would not have seen a whole lot if the fans couldn't, but I haven't found a statement either way.
Found a source on this, and added. The play was largely invisible on TV as well. Reso lute 03:06, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I find, somewhat to my shock, that this article nowhere contains the word "Sunday". Surely an oversight?
Yup. Fixed

" It was the first of five consecutive championships, a streak unprecedented in the history of the Grey Cup." As it remains so, I would make that clear.
Fixed

There is an issue in the references. You have books written by a "Kelly, Graham", but they are referred to by "Graham 1999" in the references, and the scripts I use are showing it as an error.

I hate people with first names for last names! Fixed

Is it possible to say how the Grey Cup "caught on" with the public, either in the chronological section or in the section which discusses the festival?
A mention of the halftime musical performers for the last couple of years might be a good idea.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:12, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Added 2011's act. Would add this year, but I don't think it has been announced yet.

Still working on the rest. Will update as I can, thanks for reviewing! Reso lute 23:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, should have everything but the Grey Cup "catching on". I'll look to add from a "popularity of the game" perspective in the next day or two. Thanks, Reso lute 00:45, 13 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Still working on some popularity angles, but it is proving surprisingly difficult so far. I have expanded on attendance records in the host cities section, and noted in the beginning of the Renaissance how the popularity of the game helped keep the CFL afloat. Still searching the news archives for earlier info. Reso lute 00:52, 15 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There we go. Found some on the 1921 game launching the Cup's popularity and added to the appropriate section. Reso lute 01:36, 15 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments –

~~CFL USA: "in order to avoid direct competition with an NFL team." First two words of this can safely be chopped.~~
~~Don't think another Alouttes link is needed here, since the one from the previous section appears to cover the old incarnation of the team.~~
~~Renaissance: Again, the Eskimos link is a repeat from earlier and is unneeded. There look to be some other repeat links here as well. Might be worth scanning the article for them.~~
~~The David Duval link goes to the Open Championship-winning golfer. There's probably another link to an article on this Duval, and I suggest finding it.~~ Giants2008 (Talk) 01:27, 13 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
All should be fixed, including excess extra links you did not mention. Thanks, Reso lute 15:19, 13 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- ~~Champions: "The Eskimos and Blue Bombers are tied for most most Grey Cup appearances." One "most" too many.~~
- ~~Host cities: I've never been a fan of "amongst"; perhaps it could be replaced by "among"?~~ Giants2008 (Talk) 00:19, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  Both corrected. Checked and found no other uses of "amongst". Reso lute 23:24, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Support – I found relatively few issues for an article of this length, and they've all been fixed up. At this point, I'm satisfied that the writing and sourcing meet FA standards. Giants2008 (Talk) 15:07, 26 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

Captions that are complete sentences should end in periods

Fixed?

File:Albert_Grey.jpg should include original not upload date

Fixed

File:1956_Grey_Cup_victory.jpg: how do we know that the Flickr uploader holds copyright to this image?

The Flickr uploader is the City of Toronto Archives, and per this link (scroll to the last entry, click on link below "Fonds 1653; Gilbert A. Milne & Co. Ltd. fonds"), copyright was transferred to the archives when they acquired this collection. They have the right to release as CC-BY.

File:Calgary_Stampeders_1948_Grey_Cup.jpg: don't think this would have been PD by URAA date, so what is US copyright status? Nikkimaria (talk) 22:19, 13 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sigh. I have some choice words for the URAA that aren't appropriate here, however the short answer is: I don't know. Since the photo predates the 1999 changes to Canada's copyright act, this image became PD in Canada on December 1, 1998. I would like to keep the image, as it is a good example of the original style of the trophy, but I will defer to your judgement on it's copyright status in the US, and therefore suitability for retention here. Thanks, Reso lute 23:18, 13 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Do we know if/when this image was published in the US? Nikkimaria (talk) 02:05, 14 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think it decidedly unlikely that it was ever published in the US, but obviously cannot say for certain. Reso lute 13:37, 14 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. It's probably not free in the US, but you might be able to claim fair use. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:47, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough. I'll move it local and add a FU tag (likely this weekend). I've been trying to find a pre-1946 image that would definitely be PD in both countries, but have found it surprisingly difficult thus far. Reso lute 03:05, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Got a digital copy of the 1909 GC champions to use instead. It isn't as good an image of the trophy, but has obvious historic value and is definitely PD in both Canada and the United States. Thanks, Reso lute 22:12, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Resolute, you might want to try the Canadian Football Hall of Fame for images from the early times. Maybe they'd be willing to send you a few.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:21, 26 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support (assuming images all check out). Not a sports fan; loved the article and the prose. Thought I had found one nitpick, but looked it up in my Shorter Oxford and found I was wrong, so I've got nothing. hamiltonstone (talk) 08:13, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - spotchecks not done

FN12: title?
FN22: doubled quotes
FN63 and similar: subscription notice (and location where present) shouldn't be italicized
Be consistent in whether you include locations for bibliography entries
Publisher for Maher? Should also use endash in date range. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:47, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

endash done. hamiltonstone (talk) 02:53, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

All should be corrected. I haven't been able to find a location for the Maher book. I also didn't add it, but it seems like it is a print-on-demand book and self-published, so I'm not sure that is applicable anyway. Thanks again, Reso lute 03:03, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support Very enjoyable article. I well remember sitting out in the cold for five hours in Regina and in Hamilton (the 1996 Snow Bowl). Glad to read this one in comfort.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:20, 26 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support great and vast improvements since i have last read the article....Small Note ..drop see also section and simply add a ortal bar at bottom of page.Moxy (talk) 20:57, 29 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.