Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Flag of Armenia

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article review. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted 19:42, 20 January 2007.

Flag of Armenia

This is a self-nomination. I have worked on this article with several members of WP:Armenia and Zscout370. Recently, this article had a peer review (here). --Crzy cheetah 20:09, 11 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Object for now. Should be rated as A-class in WP:HV. ~~Another suggestion is that there is an image gap in the history due to version, existed in 1936-1952 (isn't displayed in the Flag of the Armenian SSR and List of Armenian flags either).~~ And: 1) the official meaning of the colors stated in the Constitution would be nice within the chapter and paragraph; ~~2) the references to associated people of any version would also look nice if possible.~~ --Brand спойт 12:45, 12 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am not sure how often articles are rated for WP:HV, but given the information that anyone could find about the Armenia flag, I believe it should be FA. I am going to make the 1936-1952 flag right now. According to the Russian website cited in the article Stepan Malhasjana designed the flag in 1919, and readopted his flag once Armenia left the USSR. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 19:20, 12 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Flag of Armenia SSR (1940-1952).svg created and put into the list of Armenia flags. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 19:37, 12 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. --Brand спойт 19:51, 12 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The official meaning is a direct quotation from the constitution, that's why I didn't put it in a paragraph. --Crzy cheetah 20:14, 12 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

~~Object~~Abstain, primarily for want of brilliant prose and for a less than compelling structure. It is obvious that a lot of work has gone into the article, and it has improved markedly over the past few months. Still, it falls short of FA status, in my opinion. Here are some comments:
- The article could use some thorough copy editing to weed out some dubious grammar and punctuation. A few examples (this is not a comprehensive list; check the entire article meticulously for similar grammatical malfunctions):
  - Before this flag, Armenia used symbolic variants, displaying different animals, representing Armenian Dynasties, on a solid field. -- Count the commas. Also, "before this flag" reads a bit clunky; maybe you were trying to say "in earlier versions of the flag", or "previous designs of the flag", or something similar.
  - The current flag was adopted on 24 August 1990 by the Armenian Supreme Council decision. The flag was adopted by the decision? At least change "Council" to "Council's". Better yet, rephrase the sentence.
  - However, many agree that the red stands for the blood shed by Armenian soldiers from all wars, the blue stands for the sky of Armenia, hope and the unchanging character of the land, and the orange represents the courage of the people and the fertile lands of Armenia and the workers who work on them. Count the and's and the commas.
  - The most common version of the flag is with brighter shades of the tricolor Check grammar.
  - ~~Don't use a comma after "whereas".~~
  - ... hoist the national flag daily, from the following locations Kill the comma.
  - From the "History" section: The ancient flags displayed a dragon, an eagle, or some mysterious object of the gods (sometimes a lion). This was fastened to the end of a pole ... "Flags": plural, "this": singular.
  - it looks more comparable today to ... Try "looks more like" or "resembles", maybe?
  - Although, there is a tricolor flag that historians consider a flag of Transcaucasia, similar to that of the German flag (black, red and gold), except arranged in a different order (gold, black and red). Ungrammatical and comma-infested.
  - ... but on 24 August 1990 when the Armenian Supreme Council adopted the flag of the Republic of Armenia, ... Spot the missing comma.
  - The flag had a yellow hammer and sickle inscribed into the yellow star surrounded with the letters "Z-S-F-S-R" written in Russian sans-serif script. This sentence reads like a Matryoshka doll.
  - ~~Overuse of the word "however". I counted nine invocations, some of which were ungrammatical.~~
- Comments on layout and structure:
  - The "Usage" section consists almost entirely of list items. This doesn't make for very compelling storytelling. See Flag of India or Flag of Mexico for some examples of interesting flag protocol sections.
  - ~~Moving the "History" section upwards (before the "Usage" section) might improve the natural flow of the article.~~
- Thanks, and good luck! --Plek 22:16, 12 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  Response Thank you for your comments. I have made many fixes in this article including all of the errors you listed. I think that the "Usage" section is too short to write in a paragraph. Mexican and Indian flag articles are written in a prose because there are a lot of information on the web that can be included. Indian government has a 20 page flag code, while Armenian government has one sentence posted on the web.--Crzy cheetah 07:06, 13 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  Thanks for the edits. I've struck out the comments that were acted upon. I do think some more copyediting is in order, as the prose still tends to be a bit clunky in places. Enlisting the help of the League of Copyeditors might be helpful. Changing my "vote" to abstain (beacuse I'm not able to judge the comprehensiveness of the article, for lack of knowledge in this field). Cheers. --Plek 01:55, 14 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
OBJECT for practically the same exact reasons as Plek. —ExplorerCDT 02:26, 13 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support. - Patricknoddy 5:38pm, January 14, 2007
Support. I believe this article is comprehensive based on the information that is currently known to us. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 22:56, 14 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support Object for now, mostly due to the following points and factual errors to be fixed:
- The article on Armenian SSR states, that it was established on November 29 1920, but this article doesn't even mention the flag, that the republic had since then until it became a part of the Transcaucasian SFSR (1922). That flag is here, although I can't say how accurate it is there as there are no references.
  Response Can you help me out here? Soviet Socialist Republic of Armenia was established on November 29 1920, but the flag was chosen on February 2, 1922 link. On the other hand, Transcaucasian SFSR was established on March 12, 1922. It means that the flag of the SSRA had a life of one month. Plus, it is questionable whether that flag was used at all. What should I do? Leave it as is or add all this info to the article? ~~Oh and I am going to make the "SSRA" flag and put it in the List of Armenian flags anyway.~~ Thanks. Crzycheetah 04:16, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - I have added the "CCPA" flag to the "list of Armenian flags" article. Crzy cheetah
  - - - Thanks, I've also made some fixes in the section of the article, related to the Soviet Armenia. Cmapm 01:28, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- The article describes only one flag of the Transcaucasian SFSR, saying, that it was used in 1922-1936. But here is noted, that the flag mentioned in the article was used only between 1930 and 1936, and between 1922 and 1930 there was another flag, which is also present there. Cmapm 02:21, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  Response Concerning your second point, can you explain to me what ZSSRFS stand for? I think that site meant FSSSRZ which had a life of 9 months in 1922, according to the hrono.ru link I provided above. Regards. Crzy cheetah 04:16, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  
  Also, why should the Transcaucasian SFSR(established in 1922) have used a "ФСССРЗ"(or "ЗССРФС") flag from 1922-1930 if its initials were "ЗСФСР"? It doesn't make sense to me. Anyway, my point is that there is a very likely error on the vexilla-mundi.com site.--Crzy cheetah 05:29, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - I can do the 1922-1936 flag, but I just need to find a way to be able to use Cyrillic font in Inkscape. I am in the process of making the CCPA flag now. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 04:09, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    - I also do wish to attest that Vexilla-Mundai has some errors on various pages. Also, if the flag did exist, then it would have existed on the Narod.ru website we use as a reference. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 05:35, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - Yes, Crzycheetah, there seems to be an error. However, I guess, that the Transcaucasian SFSR had something similar to the first flag of the Russian SFSR somewhere in the 1920s. But as this information seems to be really hard to obtain let us leave it as is for now. Cmapm 01:28, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article review. No further edits should be made to this page.