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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by SandyGeorgia 16:28, 11 April 2009 [1].

Edmonton

[edit]
Nominator(s): Cheers Kyle1278 17:22, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured article because i have brought the page up to GA status. It was a long 2 month process but it was well worth it. The article contains soused information and well written paragraphs. I am very open to suggestions if anybody has any and i will gladly fix this article if it is required.Cheers Kyle1278 17:22, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comments -
  • Per the MOS, link titles (and anything else) in the references shouldn't be in all capitals, even when they are in the original.
Done
  • Are there no books written on Edmonton? Or its history? The entire article is cited to web pages. Surely, for such a large and important city, there are some books?
Have added some books but still looking for some
Done I replaced this one with a book Naming Edmonton ISBN 088864423X
For book refs, you need to give author, title, publisher and page number at the very least. {{cite book}} gives you help with setting this up. You should fill in as many of the fields as possible, as year of publication and location are very helpful. Ealdgyth - Talk 22:37, 2 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done I replaced it with a proper website about Edmonton's river valley.
Done I replaced this one with a book Edmonton, a history ISBN 0888301006
This link is to show and prove that it was nicknamed "Black Friday"
This link is to show Edmonton's economic history, and recovery through out the years.
This link even through it is about more than just Edmonton is about the type of geography Edmonton has
Done I replaced it with a proper website about Edmonton's river valley.
This link is about Edmonton's skiing locations.
Done I replaced it with a proper link from the communities site.
Done I removed this one i do not think it needs a ref.
Done replaced with a proper link from West Edmonton Mall.
Done I replaced this one with a site from the city of Edmonton's website about the stadiums in Edmonton.
Done I replaced this one with a book i found about it ISBN 0888644493.
Done I replaced it with a link to here.
Done removed the link i do not think it need a ref.
  • http://www.muralmosaic.com/Livia/mural.html is used to source the information "It is home to North America's largest mall, West Edmonton Mall (which was the world's largest mall for a 23 year period from 1981 until 2004.), and Fort Edmonton Park, Canada's largest living history museum. In 2004, Edmonton celebrated the centennial of its incorporation as a city." but nothing on that webpage supports that.
Done I have found to separate links for both the statements.
Issues resolved, Ealdgyth - Talk 14:35, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Please spell out lesser known abbreviations in the references, such as CBC or EFCL.
Done
  • The following refs lack publishers
    • Current ref 12 (R. Dale McIntosh..)
Done
    • Current ref 15 (P. WHITNEY...) This appears to be an online journal, should use {{cite journal}} for it.
Done
    • Current ref 23 (ELIZABETH WHITNEY...) this appears to be a newspaper, should use {{cite news}}
Done
    • Current refs 25 and 26 (Gary Lamphier...) 25 is a reprint of a newspaper article. Does the site have permission to host the article and if so, you'd use {{cite news}}. 26's accessdate is broken.
Done
    • Current ref 28 (Todd babiak..) should be Babiak also, I think. newspaper article again.
Done
    • Current ref 29 (STEPHEN DAFOE...)
Done
    • Current ref 30 (Ron Chalmers..) newspaper again.
Done
    • Current ref 32 ... the author isn't "urban villages" and it's lacking a publisher.
Done
    • Current ref 40, the author isn't "Edmonton..." it's a professor and it is a reprint of a newspaper column.
Done
    • Current ref 42 (Lawrence Herzog...)
Done
    • Current ref 44 (Edmonton...) and the author isn't Edmonton .. it's the official edmonton tourism site.
Done
    • Current ref 46 (Famous five) author isn't "Famous Five" is is the Heritage Community Foundation... lacks a publisher also
Done
    • Current ref 60 (Drrick Kania...) SHouldn't it be Derick Kania not Derick Kania1?
Done
    • Current ref 85 (Grahm Hicks...) newspaper again.
Done
    • Current ref 88 (Life sciences news...) the author isn't Life Science... it's the government of Alberta Department of Education and Technology...
Done
    • Current ref 110 (Northlands..) author isn't northlands, it's probably the festival itself.
Done
    • Current ref 112 (nortlands..) see above about the 110 ref
Done
    • Current ref 121 (SPORTS, EDMONTON...) the author isn't SPORTS, EDMONTON, it's relocatecanada.com
Done
    • current ref 123 (Rahul Vaidyanath..)
Done
    • current ref 136 (bob Kenyon...)
Done
    • Current ref 137 (Train station..) the author isn't train station and the publisher appears to be rail canada.
Done
  • A couple of your references have formatting errors (72, 84 are the ones I noticed) I tried to fix them but they are beyond my pitiful efforts.
Done
Otherwise, sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 14:08, 31 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the comments i will try my best to fix this up. Cheers Kyle1278 15:13, 31 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've taken the liberty of removing the little templated dones. It's fine to do "done" just that we try to avoid the use of templates and graphics at FAC, since there is a limit on the number of templates the FAC page can hold, and if everyone used them, we'd overflow that limit a lot. Ealdgyth - Talk 15:19, 31 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
OK sorry about that. Cheers Kyle1278 15:22, 31 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
No worries. You're new to FAC, it's all part of the learning experience! Welcome to FAC, by the way. Ealdgyth - Talk 15:24, 31 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your kindness. Cheers Kyle1278 15:31, 31 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
On the sites that I questioned the reliability of, could you please let me know what exactly was done? Were they replaced, and if so with what? Ealdgyth - Talk 12:21, 2 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I have fixed the books. Cheers Kyle1278 23:16, 2 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You still need page numbers. Ealdgyth - Talk 15:48, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I fixed it has page numbers now. Cheers Kyle1278 19:17, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
On the websites, to determine the reliability of the site, we need to know what sort of fact checking they do. You can establish this by showing news articles that say the site is reliable/noteworthy/etc. or you can show a page on the site that gives their rules for submissions/etc. or you can show they are backed by a media company/university/institute, or you can show that the website gives its sources and methods, or there are some other ways that would work too. It's their reputation for reliability that needs to be demonstrated. Please see Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2008-06-26/Dispatches for further detailed information. Ealdgyth - Talk 14:35, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Technical Review

Thank you for the info about the fist disambiguation links but could you tell me in a little more detail about how to fix it this is my first time with going through FAC. Cheers Kyle1278 22:37, 31 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't expect this to pass this first time but it is very helpful to make the article better quality. Cheers Kyle1278 22:18, 31 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Click the link at the right (the first one in the toolbox), it gives you a list of disambiguation links. These links that are in the article lead to disambiguation pages (in which multiple uses of an entry are listed), what you need to do is to direct and pipe link the link to the specific article instead of that page where all the entries are listed, see WP:DABS for more info.--Best, ₮RUCӨ 22:40, 31 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thank for the info i hope im not brothering you but where should i pipe the link to? Cheers Kyle1278 22:47, 31 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

To the specific article. Lets say you have George Bush as a Dab, you need to pipe link it as [[George W. Bush|George Bush]]--Best, ₮RUCӨ 02:06, 1 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I fixed the Victoria Day disambiguation but i can't find the Hugh MacDonald one any where on the article.Cheers Kyle1278 04:00, 2 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Try searching it with the wiki mark up, so search it as [[Hugh MacDonald--Best, ₮RUCӨ 20:31, 2 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the info i found and fixed it. Cheers Kyle1278 21:53, 2 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I am going to try to create a main page History of Edmonton i thing it will help with the issues. Cheers Kyle1278 22:25, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I hav e fixed it up tell me what you think. Cheers Kyle1278 22:45, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose. First things first. Thank you for working on this article. I love the city of Edmonton (although I think it highly unfair that there are so many freaking mosquitos that far north) and I'm glad you took the time to improve the article. The article is in decent shape, but I don't think it currently meets the FA criteria. A lot of what I wrote below are examples - fixing just the one thing I mentioned won't necessarily get me to strike, because there may be other instances, for example, that are poorly sourced in a similar fashion. I think you're going to have a bit of research to do, and I recommend that you withdraw the nomination now, continue working on the article, and then bring it back. If you choose to do that, I'll be happy to do a peer review before you renominate (I'll be happy to review it anytime).

  • There are lots and lots of self-published sources (primarily websites of local organizations). It is not a good idea to rely on those. The number one reason why not is that this gives the appearance of WP:OR and may lead to undue weight. It is much preferred that the article reflects what third-party sources say - do newspapers /books/etc consider these organizations worth mentioning when discussing the city? The current sourcing method makes the article appear as if a few people thought up all the cool things they liked about the city and then went to search for information on those cool things. But what if you don't know all the cool stuff - then the article is not comprehensive. It's a tricky line to walk, and I don't think the article falls on the right side.
  • I thought the lead was relatively well-written. The rest of the article needd a good copyedit.
  • Real Estate Marketing Services is not an appropriate source for the history of a city. Period. Neither is Edmontonrivervalley.com. At least one book is cited for the history section - make more use of it!
  • Need a citation for the highly fertile soils surrounding Edmonton helped attract settlers, further establishing Edmonton as a major regional commercial and agricultural centre
  • Need a source for the Canadian Northern Railway (CNR) arrived in Edmonton, accelerating growth.
  • I expected to see a bit more detail about Edmonton's choice as the provincial capital - wasn't that a big fight and a bit unexpected that Edmonton won?
  • What happened in the city's history after 1905? Perhaps mention its expansion with taking over Strathcona....and other stuff? (large ukranian immigration, etc)
  • This does not appear to be a reliable source http://www.experiencefestival.com/geography_of_alberta
  • I get lots of whitespace at the beginning of section Parkland..., due to the stacking of the images.
  • Beware sourcing anything to the Edmonton tourism website. Their goal is to get people to visit, so it's a very POV source. Try to find something more neutral (maybe a book?)
  • Can't use self-published websites to source peacocky things. For example, "excellent bike and walking trail connections" is cited to the City of Edmonton Transportation department...need someone independent and neutral to ascribe adjectives like that
  • Detailed information about Mill Woods is cited to a map - that information can't have come from the map
  • There are a few measurements that need conversions in the climate section
  • I'd like to see the list of attractions under culture be turned into prose
  • Need citations for number of students at UofA and its campus size

Karanacs (talk) 16:54, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hey for being so far north as you like to say we have very nice summers :). and thank you for your input i will take it into consideration to help improve on the article.--Cheers Kyle1278 18:17, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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