Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Charlie Murder/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by Ian Rose 13:28, 29 May 2014 [1].

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Charlie Murder

Nominator(s): Sven Manguard Wha? 02:00, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Charlie Murder is a side-scrolling action role-playing-beat 'em up video game for the XBLA on the Xbox 360. After I began writing the game, I reached out to the studio and they released sixteen images, which is awesome. This is my first FAC, and it's taken me a while to get good enough at writing articles to feel comfortable taking this step... so please be merciful. Sven Manguard Wha? 02:00, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

• Note: This is a WikiCup nomination. The following nominators are WikiCup participants: Sven Manguard. To the nominator: if you do not intend to submit this article at the WikiCup, feel free to remove this notice. UcuchaBot (talk) 00:01, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

• Hey, I meant to leave a message earlier saying this, but I intend on working on this on weekends, where I have large blocks of time to spend on it. I'll spend time on it tomorrow and Sunday. Sven Manguard Wha? 22:17, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

Source review (spotchecks not done) by Nikkimaria

• Direct quotes should be cited immediately in the lead
  • Normally yes, although in those cases I thought that the citation was fine where it was. Nonetheless, I've made the modifications. -Sven
• FN12: author name is inverted. Nikkimaria (talk) 19:38, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Fixed, thanks. -Sven

Review from czar

• I don't have much time, but I'd be happy to review this over a future weekend if you want the input (just send me a {{ping}}). I do a full review and copyedit (if it is worth doing), image checks, and spot source checks, but I review for fairly high 1a prose quality: fair warning. czar ♔ 15:27, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Czar - of course I'd like for you to do a review. Sven Manguard Wha? 16:08, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

In the interest of transparency: both the nom and I participate in the WikiCup czar ♔ 15:11, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Please respond below my signature so as to leave the original review uninterrupted (see last FAC instructional bullet). Any questions below are rhetorical: I'm looking for clarification in the article, not an actual answer.

1. "an army raised by a former band": raised? are they undead? If so, say so. Also how was the army raised by the band member? Vengeance? Accident? Add this
2. "Players select to play as one of five band members, each of whom uses a different instrument and has different special abilities related to that instrument." The band hasn't been introduced yet, so I don't know what band that is. Are the instruments for attacks? (Say so)
3. What does a beserker do?
4. Prose went from talking about ability to talking about roles
5. "co-op" should be related to "cooperative" (needs to be written for a layman)
6. so what do the tattoos upgrade?
7. All in all, this section leaves a lot of questions about how the game is played? There are just two buttons and a bunch of upgrades and you fight? What about bosses and whether co-op makes the game different and what abilities do and how levels differ and so on?
8. Jargon needs way more clarification overall, and links to relevant pages to read more
9. "The player-character is killed at the beginning of the game" who?
10. "The band is tasked": where did the band come from? I thought we were on a single character?
11. "talk about the band and the game world": is this what they discuss or do they "talk about the game's lore"
12. multiple cites at the end of a paragraph should mean that all three cites cite everything in the ¶
13. If you take a look at my edit, quotes are rarely needed where paraphrasing can do
14. "In April, the game was announced as in development ": announced by whom
15. "The game was eventually released in August 2013": what happened in-between? Lots of dev details missing here
16. the dating section needed to be completely reordered—look at the changes
17. "Silva did all of the game's programming work, while Juett handled its marketing." What game? CM? Dishwasher?
18. The Reception section uses way too many quotes and not enough paraphrasing. I'm going to hold off on my copyedit of this section until that's addressed since it will rewrite the whole section.
19. I'd also limit the first ¶ to overall feedback—what reviewers agreed on, what the aggregators said, what awards or nominations it received.
20. Overall thoughts: The article is really sparse. It might meet FAC standards if the prose shines, but I don't think it meets the basic broad coverage criteria until it covers a whole lot more ground in all of its existing sections (as alluded above)

Good work. Give me a ping when these are all fully addressed and I'll continue. I'm also looking for feedback on the Deathrow FAC, for those interested. czar ♔ 15:11, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

I changed all of your bullets to numbers, because otherwise, so that when I address them below your signature, it will make keeping track of which response is to which point much easier. I hope you don't mind.

1. Added.
2. Addressed in tweak of the characters section.
3. Addressed in tweak of the characters section.
4. Addressed in tweak of the characters section.
5. De-abbreviated and linked.
6. Addressed in tweak of the characters section.
7. Got it.
8. Got it.
9. Clarified.
10. By "tasked", I meant that that was the game's plot. I've changed the wording though.
11. I re-wrote this to be a bit clearer, but the source says "a radio program with callers, talking about the current state of the world and the band itself (GTAstyle)". I'm not sure where you got your quote about the lore from.
12. Got it.
13. I think this was addressed.
14. Done.
15. See below comment (19:01, 17 May 2014).
16. I tweaked it a bit more.
17. <sigh>, yeah, fixed that one.
18. I've cut the quotes down to three, one per each of the last three photographs. Hopefully this is acceptable.
19. Done.
20. See below comment (19:01, 17 May 2014).

I will fill these in as I get to them. Sven Manguard Wha? 18:13, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Czar I think that I addressed just about everything that I could. I'm not sure what to do about your point 15. Honestly, I feel that I'm a bit over my head at the moment, and could really use some experienced support in getting it the last 5% over the line, but if that's not possible, I will do what I can. Please let me know your thoughts on the article as it stands. Sven Manguard Wha? 19:01, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Is there a dev diary (or something like it) you can use? Still feels a bit skimpy on the basics of the story, especially on the actual software crafting of the game and the non-bureaucratic decisions associated with thatczar ♔ 08:27, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Comments by Hahnchen and Tezero

• Comment - Template:Video game reviews gives quick references to the reviews quoted in the prose, why isn't Hardcore Gamer included? Do you even need the scores in the prose? On the other hand, you quote The Digital Fix and Gaming Nexus, but give no indication of their score. Why have you chosen to use these sources over more established names? Is Metacritic alone insufficient for demonstrating the critical consensus? - hahnchen 14:17, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Hardcore Gamer isn't included in the summary box because it's not one of the review sites that is pre-built into the that template. The four reviews that are in that box are the four reviewers built into that template that have done reviews of the game. I have removed the scores from the prose, as part of my reworking of that section. Sven Manguard Wha? 21:41, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
    • If you think their analysis of the game is important enough to quote, use the custom fields in Template:Video game reviews. - hahnchen 11:53, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
• Comment: The article's looking fairly close. Ping me when you've cleaned czar's comments off the table and I'll give mine, as it could be difficult or contradictory to satisfy both—and any further comments we give—simultaneously. Tezero (talk) 17:23, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Image Review by PresN

• File:CharlieMurderBoxArt.png - fair-use video game cover, FUR filled out- the image is a bit big for a non-free image though. Please resize to no wider than 250-300 pixels.
• File:Charlie Murder screenshot 5.png - CC-3.0 Commons screenshot, ticket filed at OTRS by developer
• File:Charlie Murder screenshot 9.png - CC-3.0 Commons screenshot, ticket filed at OTRS by developer
• In addition to shrinking the cover, consider moving the images a bit lower in the article, even into the next section for the bottom one- in my screen, they're all jammed up together into the infobox. --PresN 19:21, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
  • PresN: Yeah, I didn't upload that. I'm opposed to any use of non-free images on Wikipedia, and refuse to upload new ones. I have resized the one that is there though. As for the image placement, I moved them down, stuck them in a vertically aligned Template:Multiple image, and added a third image back in. It's from the same batch as the other two screenshots, so the license and OTRS ticket are the same. Sven Manguard Wha? 16:55, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

• I empathize with disagreeing with Wikipedia traditions; I've got plenty of those. For this case, I guess I'd recommend you seek out permission from the copyright holder to freely license the cover art, if at all possible. Tezero (talk) 17:02, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

• Resizing and new image look fine, I like the new image layout better too. --PresN 17:22, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I just discovered that I could do that. Expect to see me using it more often, because it's all kinds of awesome. Sven Manguard Wha? 18:53, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Closing comment -- Sorry but without any support for promotion after six weeks or so and little recent commentary, it's time to archive this. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 11:11, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

• Closing note: This candidate has been archived, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Ian Rose (talk) 11:12, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.