Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Billy Bates (baseball)/archive3

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 30 November 2021 [1].

Billy Bates (baseball)

Nominator(s): Therapyisgood (talk) 02:33, 25 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about... Billy Bates. Pinging @Hog Farm:, as they did a great pre-FAC review. I've expanded this over the past few days, and hopefully this meets FA criteria. Expanded with new sourcing and information after a Newspapers.com search and roundup. Therapyisgood (talk) 02:33, 25 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'll wait to post a review to let some other editors look at this first, but I feel like my comments in the pre-FAC review and in the last FAC have been well-addressed. Hog Farm _Talk 02:43, 25 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments - support

"William Derrick Bates was born on December 7, 1963, in Houston, Texas, to a paint foreman" - to my mind, being born "to" someone suggests that person was the mother. Presumably his mother wasn't a paint foreman?
- The source doesn't say which parent was a paint foreman, so I've reworded in the article to just say "the son of a paint foreman". Therapyisgood (talk) 20:32, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"He finished the season batting .296" - what does this mean?
- It means he had a batting average of .296. I used "batting average" on first use now, clarified. Therapyisgood (talk) 20:57, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"and drew a walk" - what does this mean?
- Reworded. Therapyisgood (talk) 21:00, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"As of 2018, Bates holds" - that was three years ago, so if a more up to date stat is not available, I would suggest changing it to "held"
- Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 20:33, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"Bates; and LaVel Freeman" - think that semi-colon should be a comma or possibly not even there at all
- Agree, cut. Therapyisgood (talk) 20:34, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"stated Bates may make" => "stated that Bates might make"
- Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 20:41, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"in a Zephyrs' victory" - no need for that apostrophe
- Cut. Therapyisgood (talk) 20:41, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Image caption is a complete sentence so needs a full stop
- Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 20:41, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"though Bates stated he played at shortstop and third base last year" => "though Bates stated that he had played at shortstop and third base the previous year"
- Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 20:41, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"was placed on the DL" - what is the DL?
- Explained. Therapyisgood (talk) 20:41, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"an error that allowed Boggs to reach" - reach what?
- Reach base, clarified. Therapyisgood (talk) 20:46, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"and the Brewers won, 8–4" - don't think that comma is needed
- Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 20:46, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"Bates came into the game as a pinch runner" - first mention in the body so should be linked
- Linked. Therapyisgood (talk) 20:46, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"with the Reds losing, 4–3" - don't think that comma is needed
- Removed. Therapyisgood (talk) 20:48, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"moved on to the World Series" - link World Series (probably the specific one)
- Linked. Therapyisgood (talk) 20:53, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"was not able take his spot" - word "to" is missing
- Added. Therapyisgood (talk) 20:53, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"He was a physical education major at the University of Texas" - in 1984?
- Good catch. 1985. Added. Therapyisgood (talk) 20:53, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Think that's it from me..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 19:14, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support - nice one -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 21:02, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support from GhostRiver

I will look at this when it is not 1:30 in the morning. — Ghost River 05:29, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Stats don't need to be cited in the lead if they're mentioned with a citation in the body
- They are not currently. Therapyisgood (talk) 21:35, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  - Removed reference and added later in section. Therapyisgood (talk) 14:41, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
MLB year template should be used in the infobox
- Added. Therapyisgood (talk) 13:59, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"Though defensively he played as a second baseman," >> "Though his defensive position was at second base,"
- Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:10, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"4th round" >> "fourth round" per MOS:ORDINAL and MOS:NUMERAL
- Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:21, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"and teams that he played for won multiple minor league titles." >> "helping several of his minor league teams win their respective league titles."
- Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:21, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Name the second baseman who was injured in the lede
- Named. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:21, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delink "pinch hit" in the lede, it's linked above
- Pinch runner is linked above, not pinch hitter, I believe. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:21, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
No comma after "scored the winning run in Game 2"
- Removed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:21, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"Minor League Baseball" should be capitalized as the name of a business, whereas "the minor leagues" would not be
- Caps added. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:21, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
He presumably played for the Reds and Cubs organizations, as those are major league teams
- Good catch. Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:21, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"After retirement" >> "After his retirement" or "After retiring"
- Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:21, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Link "scout" to Scout (sports)
- Linked. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:21, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"8th round" >> "eighth round" per above
- Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:21, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
If he enrolled in 1983, he wouldn't have played until 1984, as baseball is a spring sport at UT-Austin and he would have enrolled in the fall
- Good catch, removed. Therapyisgood (talk) 21:32, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
To determine which team would represent the Central Regional in the College World Series (CWS), the Longhorns played against the Mississippi State Bulldogs; the Longhorns defeated the Bulldogs and advanced to the World Series. Redundant sentence
- Reworked. Therapyisgood (talk) 14:28, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"the Longhorns never lost" >> "the Longhorns remained undefeated"
- Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:41, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"and, in the 1984 College World Series, lost in the finale to the Cal State Fullerton Titans 3–1." >> "and lost 3–1 to the Cal State Fullerton Titans in the final game of the 1984 CWS."
- Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:41, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Link "Division I" to NCAA Division I
- Linked. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:41, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The quote with "if you just put the stats on" should have the period inside of it, per MOS:LQ
- Moved. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:41, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Link 1985 MLB Draft in the body
- Linked. Therapyisgood (talk)
Switch the order of clauses so it's "Although they had 7 pitchers, there were only two position players"
- Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:41, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Excise the parentheticals, as you have the WL for "position players" and it can be inferred that means "non-pitchers"
- Removed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:41, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Instead of parentheses around "Bates and LaVel Freeman", add a colon after "position players"
- Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:41, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"The eight home runs that Bates hit and his 75 runs batted in (RBI)" >> "Bates' eight home runs and 75 runs batted in (RBI)"
- Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:41, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delink "home run" in the "Rise to the majors" section
- Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:41, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"for most steals in a single postseason game, with three." >> "with three stolen bases in a single postseason game."
- Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:58, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know why the "MLB debut" section is not called "Milwaukee Brewers"
- Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:58, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
""[was] expected to join [the MLB team] by game time [August 16]"" goes beyond MOS:PMC and can be paraphrased
- Done. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:58, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Link "start" in "first career start" to Games started
- Linked. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:58, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"and final" doesn't need to be in parentheses
- OK, changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:58, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Link "hit by a pitch" to Hit by pitch
- Linked. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:58, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
the Sounds defeated the Buffalo Bisons when Chris Jones hit a double that scored Bates as the game ended after 18 innings. Too much going on in this clause
- Reworked. 22:58, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
Add (NL) after "National League" in "National League West"; that way, you can say "1990 NL Championship Series"
- Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:58, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"In Game 1, manager Lou Piniella put Bates in the game as a pinch runner for Ron Oester on first base in the bottom of the ninth inning with the Reds losing 4–3." >> "In Game 1, with the Reds down 4–3 in the bottom of the ninth inning, manager Lou Piniella put Bates in the game as a pinch runner for Ron Oester on first base."
- Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 14:07, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comma after "When the strike ended"
- Added. Therapyisgood (talk) 14:04, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Career stats should be in the "Later career" section, after his reitrement is mentioned
- Added. Therapyisgood (talk) 14:09, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Link "baseball at the Olympic games" to Baseball at the 1984 Summer Olympics
- Linked. Therapyisgood (talk) 21:40, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The part about being taunted for his height would make more sense if it were connected in the text to the fact that he was only 5'7"
- It's directly above. Therapyisgood (talk) 14:05, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That's what I have. — Ghost River 17:54, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support by Lee Vilenski

I'll begin a review of this article very soon! My reviews tend to focus on prose and MOS issues, especially on the lede, but I will also comment on anything that could be improved. I'll post up some comments below over the next couple days, which you should either respond to, or ask me questions on issues you are unsure of. I'll be claiming points towards the wikicup once this review is over.

Lede

Surely he is a retired professional baseball player who played in the MLB, rather than just a former MLB player? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:11, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Reworked opening sentence. Therapyisgood (talk) 21:27, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I feel the lede needs to cover a bit more about how he lost his place in the Reds after he won the playoff game. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:11, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Tried to rework to emphasize he was signed to a one-year contract with the Reds. Therapyisgood (talk) 21:37, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Prose

The son of a paint foreman, Bates - just say "he" as all of his siblings are also Bates. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:11, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 21:38, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"several smaller schools" - who said this? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:11, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Clarified. Therapyisgood (talk) 21:38, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
$102,000 or $103,000 in 2020, Huh? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:11, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Corresponds to the inflation rate for 2020 for the contract offered to Bates by the Phillies. I used Template:Inflation to generate those numbers, and they're sourced to the footnote. Therapyisgood (talk) 19:56, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
What's with the external images? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:11, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Just a way to get an image of the guy. Therapyisgood (talk) 19:56, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It's All-American, not All American. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:11, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 21:42, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
TL, you use this acronym once in the article, can you not just say "in the league"? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:11, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Changed. Therapyisgood (talk) 21:42, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
There's so many acronyms in this article - did we need one for Disabled List? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:11, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Cut. Therapyisgood (talk) 21:42, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
bottom of the tenth - tenth innings. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:11, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- "Bottom of the tenth inning" is proper American English, it's "inning", not "innings". Maybe an EngVar thing. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:38, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I feel like the article is missing stats or something, other than just the career and personal life sections.Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:11, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- What do you mean? Therapyisgood (talk) 22:41, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Additional comments

Additionally, if you liked this review, or are looking for items to review, I have some at my nominations list. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:58, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Lee Vilenski: and @GhostRiver: comments responded to. Therapyisgood (talk) 22:41, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

I gave this a pretty thorough comprehensiveness check as a pre-FAC review, and I think it's pretty good on source comprehensiveness front unless I missed something
"LaVel Freeman". ESPN.com. ESPN. Retrieved August 2, 2013." - no need to have ESPN.com and ESPN, just ESPN should be enough
- Fixed. Therapyisgood (talk) 19:09, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
You use MILB.com and milb.com, recommend consistency
- Now all caps. Therapyisgood (talk) 19:09, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Did some spot checks as I went along, things were fine

This is a pass for all effective purposes, but I would like to see the two minor formatting things fixed. Hog Farm _Talk 17:44, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hog Farm you posted above that you may be intending to do a full review, are you still planning that? (t · c) buidhe 00:12, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Buidhe: - I don't believe I'll have time to do a full review for this one. Hog Farm _Talk 00:18, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Image review - pass

The sole image is appropriately licenced, positioned, captioned and alt texted. Gog the Mild (talk) 20:30, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@FAC coordinators: Three supports, an image review and a source review. Can I add another? Therapyisgood (talk) 00:11, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Go ahead. (t · c) buidhe 00:11, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Ian Rose (talk) 12:18, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.