Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Battle of Lake Providence/archive1
Battle of Lake Providence (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
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- Nominator(s): Hog Farm Talk 03:44, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
I have a long-term goal to get all of the articles related to the Vicksburg campaign to featured article status, in the manner of Wikipedia:Featured topics/Guadalcanal Campaign. Hopefully this will become the fourth FA of the direct project, after Battle of Grand Gulf, Battle of Raymond, and Battle of Helena, with Grant's Canal and Duckport Canal as supporting FAs. This isn't the meatiest article of the group, but I believe it is as comprehensive as can be. This winter, when I have more time on my hands, I hope to tackle some of the bigger ones. Hog Farm Talk 03:44, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
Image review
- Suggest adding alt text. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:26, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
- I have attempted to add alt text, and have also added File:Map of Plantations in Carroll Parish, Louisiana and Issaquena County, Mississippi (cropped).jpg. I think the licensing is pretty airtight on the new addition. Hog Farm Talk 16:03, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
Support from CMD
[edit]Thanks for the read. The comments below are part clarificatory questions, rather than being a point by point list of needed actions.
- Is there a pattern behind the name abbreviations of Hugh T. Reid, Paul O. Hébert, and E. Kirby Smith? Just convention among historians?
- This is how the individuals are named in the sources Hog Farm Talk 21:42, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
- "Bartlett's force crossed Bayou Macon two days late" does not come with context as to what the expected time was. Coordination with the other prongs? Same in the body.
- This is addressed in the body - "Major General John George Walker's troops reached Richmond on June 6, and Taylor planned a three-pronged strike for the next day: Confederate troops were to attack Milliken's Bend, Young's Point, and Lake Providence". I've added to the lead a statement that the attacks were scheduled to take place on June 7. Hog Farm Talk 21:42, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
- "The Confederate were forced to halt" in the lead doesn't seem to align with "Bartlett halted his cavalry at the bridge in order to allow the infantry to catch up" in the body, with the latter implying it was a choice rather than something forced.
- Rephrased. Hog Farm Talk 21:42, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
- Without going into a huge amount of detail, could Background provide a bit more context as to the situation in Louisiana at this time? The Union forces are described as attacking Vicksburg from Louisiana, which is to the west, and Confederate forces also come from the west, including apparently taking over Richmond.
- @Chipmunkdavis: - I've added several sentences for greater context of the operations - is that an improvement? Hog Farm Talk 23:24, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, that's helpful geographical context. CMD (talk) 01:22, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
- What sort of place is "Caledonia"? The article seems to append ", STATE" to towns and cities, which made me curious what Caledonia was, and I was unable to find it in a quick search (outside of this unhelpful mention in civil war coverage).
- After quite a bit of searching, I turned up this which calls it a "post-hamlet" as of 1902, but there's no way of knowing if this was a post-hamlet in 1863. The only detail I can find about Caledonia in the various sources related to this battle are references that it had a brick kiln and "Negro quarters". I've delinked it, as there's essentially no chance that an article on this place could be developed. Hog Farm Talk 21:42, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
- The map in "Battle" is not too helpful, but perhaps better than nothing. The caption could use some expansion, "Walker's operations in support of Vicksburg" makes me assume it would show Milliken's Bend and Young's Point, which are described as the three operational prongs, but instead it shows Richmond (and Vicksburg of course).
- Would File:Map of Plantations in Carroll Parish, Louisiana and Issaquena County, Mississippi (cropped).jpg be better? It shows Bunch's Bend, Bayou Baxter, and Bayou Tensas, along with Lake Providence. I can't find a period map of the western portion of Carroll Parish showing Floyd and Caledonia (which is surprising to me because Floyd was the county seat at the time) and the first USGS topographic map of the Floyd area I can find is from the 1950s. Hog Farm Talk 21:13, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
- It would be a helpful addition, if only for confirming the location of a couple of places I was guessing on google maps. CMD (talk) 01:18, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
- @Chipmunkdavis: - this has been added now, although I'm not entirely happy with how it breaks over into the section heading below. Hog Farm Talk 16:03, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
- It doesn't break over when I look in Vector2022. To make sure, why not move the Louisiana map to background where Richmond is mentioned? CMD (talk) 19:14, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
- On my screen, that would cause MOS:SANDWICH issues with the infobox and campaign navbox. Hog Farm Talk 19:45, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
- Hmm, I wonder why. I see the campaign navbox ending within the first paragraph of Background, or I wouldn't have suggested it. CMD (talk) 07:33, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
- On my screen, that would cause MOS:SANDWICH issues with the infobox and campaign navbox. Hog Farm Talk 19:45, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
- @Chipmunkdavis: - this has been added now, although I'm not entirely happy with how it breaks over into the section heading below. Hog Farm Talk 16:03, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
- What was the "Union outpost at Bunch's Bend", just a few troops smaller than a picket?
- Winters has "Bartlett crossed Bayou Macon and moved over to Bunch's Bend on the Mississippi, capturing the Federal outpost at that point". Bearss does not mention this, nor does Reid or the NPS source. Hog Farm Talk 21:42, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
- "The Confederates reached the wrecked bridge", does this mean the infantry, given Bartlett was already there?
- I have heavily rewritten this sentence. Hog Farm Talk 21:42, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
- Would it be possible to explicitly mention the shooting engagement was across the Bayou Tensas?
Best, CMD (talk) 08:39, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
- Are "The Confederate did..." and "The Confederate finally crossed..." structures correct?
- No, those are not correct. I have made corrections. Hog Farm Talk 00:12, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
Aside from that, on a fresh reread, I think the article meets the FACR. It certainly more comprehensive than Grabau 2000. Best, CMD (talk) 12:39, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
FM
[edit]- I'll have a closer look soon. FunkMonk (talk) 19:33, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
- "Period map showing" Add the exact year instead? Commons say 1860.
- I've corrected that - there's no date on the map, and the LOC page this came from has [1860?] Hog Farm Talk 02:51, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
- Nowhere is Vicksburg, Mississippi itself linked in the article.
- Oops - linked in the lead and body now. Hog Farm Talk 02:51, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
- "Vicksburg, Richmond, and Lake Providence" Link places mentioned in caption?
- All linked now. Hog Farm Talk 02:51, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
Zawed's comments
[edit]Background
- ...but by the time of the siege, Grant had...: perhaps "he had" since Grant is already named earlier in the sentence?
- Milikin's Bend is named a few times in close succession. Perhaps rephrase, e.g. "During the early part of the campaign, Grant had operated a supply depot at Milliken's Bend in Louisiana,[3] but this decreased in importance due to his establishment of a different supply line. Grant still kept minor supply points at there, and at Young's Point and... "
- link infantry division to [Division (military)]?
- Taylor's reinforced command was...: how was it reinforced?
- That would be Walker - I've rephrased this to be clearer. Hog Farm Talk 18:52, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
- Confederates viewed the training of USCT at Lake Providence...: to avoid repetition, suggest "Confederates viewed the training of USCT at there..."
- I've gone with the broader and more accurate "Confederates viewed the training of USCT to be the fomenting of a slave rebellion" Hog Farm Talk 18:52, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
- The Major General link on Walker should be moved to first mention of Taylor, since that usage is the first time the CSA rank is used.
- link Brigadier General
Battle
- Link Caledonia, even if it is a redlink?
- I really don't think Caledonia is a possible future article topic (see some notes in a review above about attempted research into the nature of Caledonia), so I don't think this would meet WP:REDYES. Hog Farm Talk 18:52, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
- The Union unit fired several volleys into the Confederates...: for greater specificity suggest "the Confederate rearguard"
- did not attempt to cross Bayou Tensas at any points downstream: seems to me that "at any points" is redundant?
That's about it for me. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 08:33, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
- @Zawed: - Thanks for the review! Replies are above. Hog Farm Talk 18:52, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
Sammi Brie
[edit]Pulling up a chair...
- Probably worth spelling out "six" in the convert template for "six miles".
- "Taylor preferred a strike against New Orleans, Louisiana, and" do we really need to specify in what state New Orleans is?
- I think so. From an American perspective this is well-known, but I don't know that New Orleans is well-known as being in Louisiana elsewhere). Maybe Gog the Mild has thoughts from a British perspective on this? Hog Farm Talk 20:38, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
- "Confederate cavalry occupied Richmond, Louisiana, on June 3, Major General John George Walker's troops reached Richmond on June 6, and Taylor planned a three-pronged strike for the next day" The complexity of this sentence and the GEOCOMMA demand semicolons between list items.
- "The regiment had no prior combat experience, and had been dismounted in early 1863." Classic CINS remove comma
- Removed. Hog Farm Talk 20:38, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
- "Bartlett struck a Union outpost at Bunch's Bend on the Mississippi River, and then continued" another CINS
- "Outnumbered, the Kansans withdrew and a messenger informed Brigadier General Hugh T. Reid, the Union commander at Lake Providence, of the Confederate advance." add comma after "withdrew"
- Link "lodgment"
- Done. I was not aware that this was a technical term. Hog Farm Talk 20:38, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
- "Bartlett believed that Reid had more men than he actually had, and did" remove comma
- "the Confederates lost two men killed and five wounded" is this "lost two men killed" phrasing typical in military history?
- "Confederate troops captured a small Union camp in the area in the Battle of Goodrich's Landing on June 29, but were driven off the next day." remove comma
Mostly comma fixes and one or two copy flow items. Ping when done. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 04:52, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
- @Sammi Brie: - Thanks for your review! I'm not very good with comma usage - I blame the Missouri Department of Elementary and Secondary Education somewhat. Hog Farm Talk 20:38, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
- Support. Not going to quibble on the New Orleans location item — it's just a question, less a thing needing fixing. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 04:38, 21 September 2024 (UTC)