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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 19 August 2022 [1].

BTS

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Nominator(s): ErnestKrause (talk), Wehwalt (talk), and Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 16:07, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]


This article is about the contemporary music group BTS from South Korea. It is a co-nomination with Wehwalt and a renewed FAC with updated text and sources. The previous successful GAN nomination was done as a co-nomination with Btspurplegalaxy who is also on the top 10 editor list for the article. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:41, 6 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose

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Similar reasons as last time, I don't feel my concerns were fully addressed. The sourcing can still be improved with the books that are now minimally cited; journal articles I brought up were not included at all. Some of the citations now lack page numbers, eg. " John Lie, "BTS, the Highest Stage of K-pop". In Youna Kim, Ed. The Soft Power of the Korean Wave. "Chapter 7". Routledge Press. 2022." I don't know exactly how many pages there are in a chapter, but this is not ideal for verifiability. Another book is listed in bibliography and cited using sfn referencing, so I would cite all book sources the same way for consistency. The nominator is the author of 4.7% of the article, so concern about how he can guarantee the accuracy of the remaining 95% remains. (t · c) buidhe 18:53, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Just so there's not any question of our compliance with procedure per WP:FACSUPPORTOPPOSE, I'm noting that in the opinion of the nominators, all of Buidhe's concerns have been addressed, and a notice left on her talk page, the diff being this.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:09, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You seemed to say it was "an improvement" on your talk page here: [2]. Also, all three of the editors listed as nominators are listed by Wikitools on the top 10 list of editors for "authorship" out of over 1500 editors for the article: Wehwalt is #7, Ernest is #6, and Btspurple is #4. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:38, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The page numbers in the Soft Power book have now been added, and I'll go through the refs and see what can be done. More learned sources have been added. Again, I'll do more on this.--Wehwalt (talk) 10:56, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Most of the sources cited in the opposes in the two FACs are now included, as well as other scholarly sources. Much of the article is basically about facts, the group's activities in the years since its founding.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:54, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Buidhe we have, I believe, addressed your concerns. A number of scholarly sources are now used, sfn has been adopted for the book and article sources where it was not present, and I'm assured by ErnestKrause that the sources (which were gone through when the article was pared down from the sprawling mess it was) do reflect the sources.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:59, 15 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I've repeatedly been asked to change my oppose, but sourcing issues remain in the article such as citing self-published medium and forbes contributors. Some citations are broken with the message "Harv error: this link doesn't point to any citation". The question of how people who wrote a minority of the article have verified the sourcing and accuracy of the remaining 90 percent or so remains. (t · c) buidhe 16:17, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Your comment about authorship appears not to know about the long edit history of the BTS article. Previous editors from the last 10 years had bloated the article to over 400Kb in size. Those 'authors' of the article made a sprawling mess of the old version of the BTS article, and GAN was successfull only because the article went through an extensive bulking down process to get it through a successful GAN. You appear to keep wanting to give credit to the old previous editors who caused it to become bloated at over 400Kb in size last year which detracted from the article being able to get to GAN. The GAN succeeded due to bulking down the article and not super-adding text to a article that was already over 400Kb.
Your comment about Forbes must refer to the one citation to Forbes in the entire article to document the release of their song "Dynamite". That citation is written by a Forbes staff member which is acceptable to Wikipedia policy; only non-staff Forbes article are excluded by Wikipedia policy. If you see any SPS problems in the article, then state them by name since the article has had an extensive review of citations at its successfull GAN.
The Harv-cite error you mention appears only for the one book by Kim Young which was added by a previous editor, and which Wehwalt is in the process of converting to sfn; it is already in the sfn section of the Bibliography. The print-out of the article on my screen shows no other Harv-cite issues at this time. If you see any other Harv-cite issues, then you can them list them here, since none of them are coming up on my screen print-out at this time. ErnestKrause (talk) 17:40, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
There were several sfn errors, but I've gone through everything now and they're fixed. As for the assurances of accuracy, there's ErnestKrause's assurances on this front and I think both ErnestKrause's comments just above and FrB.TG's just below respond to that. At this point, this seems to be an oppose where everything either has been addressed or (in the case of the concern about accuracy, there's nothing that can, or so far as I can tell, should, be done.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:13, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Buidhe, any further thoughts? Gog the Mild (talk) 11:09, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
We did of course ping her and leave a message on her talk page quite some time ago after her objection was addressed in full. That should speak for itself at this point in the FAC.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:38, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Gog the Mild Are we able to move forward given Buidhe's lack of response? Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 00:38, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by FrB.TG

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Resolved comments from FrB.TG

The additions of academic sources have definitely improved the article. I partially disagree with the oppose above, i.e. with the part that the nominators not being major authors of the article could mean there are unsupported/misinterpreted claims there. Unless a spot-checker specifically identifies issues on this front, it's just an assumption that these exist. (Note I'm not saying that these don't exist, but only saying the possible issues would first need to be confirmed to warrant an oppose on that ground.) Some of my comments regarding sourcing can be found here on my talk page. My comments here will mostly focus on the prose and MoS issues.

  • "By 2017, BTS crossed into the global music market, leading the Korean Wave into the United States" - the Wikipedia article does not capitalize "wave" in Korean Wave.
Should be lower case and changed to lower case. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:19, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "They are the first Asian and non-English speaking act to be named the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry's (IFPI) Global Recording Artist of the Year (2020–2021), to chart on Billboard's Top Touring Artists of the 2010s (placing at number 45), and to headline and sell out Wembley Stadium and the Rose Bowl (Love Yourself World Tour in 2019)." Too many and's here.
Rewrite long sentence as two sentences. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:24, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • File:Bangtan Boys at the Incheon Music Center in September 2013 02.jpg appears in between two sections; either place it at the beginning of Name or Career section.
Mirror flip image with quote box in Career section. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:34, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "This extended their name to mean "growing youth BTS who is going beyond the realities they are facing, and going forward."[10]" Per MOS:LQ, the full stop should be placed outside the quotation mark.
Correct period location. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:37, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "BTS was originally supposed to be a hip hop group similar to YG Entertainment's 1TYM,[13] but soon after the group was created, Bang Si-hyuk decided to create an idol group similar to Seo Taiji and Boys, a group which was popular in the 90's." Usage of group four times in one sentence and I would change '90's to 1990s.
Divide long sentence into two sentences, and rewrite. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:46, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Here was a musical act that wasn’t pulling any punches." Avoid using curly apostrophes (’) and use a straight (') one instead (per MOS:'). There are other ones throughout the article and you would need to go through them.
I just strained my eyes and I hope got them all.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:48, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Their subsequent single, "We Are Bulletproof Pt. 2", failed to chart at all." Prose redundancy.
Got it.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:48, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The release topped the Gaon Album Chart,[37] and it also appeared on Billboard's World Albums Chart for the first time, peaking at number three." Prose redundancy.
Got it.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:48, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Following Skool Luv Affair's release" - the possessive ('s) should not be in italics.
Got it.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:48, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In July 2014, BTS hosted a free concert in West Hollywood, their first show in the United States" - the article randomly switches between using United States and US. Stick to one.
Changed all to "US" for consistency throughout article. Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 01:51, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The band released their first Japanese studio album, Wake Up (2014), that December; the release" - release used in twice in close proximity.
Copy edit wording. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:18, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "BTS wanted to express the beauty and anxiousness of youth and settled on the title" - whose title are we talking about here? Addendum: it's only clarified in the next sentence.
Rewrite first two sentence of that paragraph. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:26, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The album's second single, "Dope (Korean: 쩔어; RR: Jjeoreo)," peaked at number three" - place the quotation sign before the comma.
moved to the proper place Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 02:02, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • File:Bangtan Boys at KCON France 2016.jpg and File:BTS win first Daesang (Grand Prize) at Melon Music Awards, 19 November 2016.jpg are placed too closely to each other in opposite directions, creating a WP:SANDWICH issue.
Pull KCon image up one paragraph to avoid image sandwich. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:37, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • ""Spring Day" later won Best Song of the Year at the 2017 Melon Music Awards." It's obvious that one wins awards for their work later on so it's uneeded.
Drop extra word. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:33, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Commercially, BTS continued to hit new career heights" - "hit new career heights" sounds too informal.
Expand their artistic successes, sounds more on point. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:37, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In December, they also became the first K-pop group" - unnecessary use of "also".
Removed. Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 02:02, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • WP:NBSP needed in a lot of places e.g. "300 million" and "September 2017". Check thoroughly.

Down to the end of 2014–2017: Mainstream and international breakthrough. This should keep you busy for a while. I'll return with more comments later. FrB.TG (talk) 18:59, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I've added another dozen to two dozen nbsp additions to improve readability on this. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:53, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
A couple were missed, which I've added myself. FrB.TG (talk) 09:43, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the comments. I've addressed a few of them and will return tomorrow to get more of them.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:13, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It should be up to date as to the above comments. Ready for next set of edit comments when available. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:53, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
FrB.TG, do you have more? I'd like to be able to show some progress towards promotion to the coordinators.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:53, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, sorry. I’ve been sick the last two days so I got little done around here. I’ll definitely follow up in the next few days. FrB.TG (talk) 20:53, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Commercially, Love Yourself: Tear became one of BTS' best selling albums." The source does not say this. From its achievement of becoming the first K-pop album to top the US charts, it's somewhat implied, but we would need a source explicitly stating this.
Cut those words.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:28, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and the highest-charting album by an Asian act" - not mentioned anywhere in the source.
I suppose it is by implication as you can't go higher than #1 but I've substituted that it was the first album predominately sung in another language besides English to reach #1 in 12 years.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:28, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Source 129 and 134 should be marked with a |url-access=subscription parameter.
I've added it to 134. 129 already has it.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:28, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "with a landmark concert in the Seoul Olympic Stadium, the largest stadium in South Korea." - I believe "landmark" is unneeded. Mentioning the feat, which made it a "landmark", should suffice.
Sliced.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:28, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "John Lie, in his scholarly article on BTS, opined that the Nazi incident showed that they is not tightly controlled" - plural.
Tweaked--Wehwalt (talk) 12:28, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "They also made the Bloomberg 50" - it would help if the reader could understand why the Bloomberg 50 is significant. Perhaps something like "They were listed as one of the 50 most influential people by Bloomberg..." while linking the "one of the 50 most influential people" to the listing.
Done, phrased slightly differently.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:06, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "getting four from each awards show and which was never previously done at the Mnet Asian Music Awards" - this could be better phrased. The switch from an -ing form to the use of a relative pronoun reads awkwardly.
Rephrased.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:06, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Source 209 should be marked as being in Korean.
That's done--Wehwalt (talk) 12:28, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • ""Dynamite" debuted at number one on the US Billboard Hot 100 chart, becoming the fastest-selling single since Swift's "Look What You Made Me Do" (2017)—earning BTS their first chart topper and making them the first all-South Korean act (second Asian act overall) to earn a number one single in the US." Can we rephrase this sentence a bit so we don't repeat "number one" thrice?
It is only stated twice in the sentence you reproduce. I've removed it from the following sentence, though.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:06, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The members' experiences with South Korean youth culture also inspired the songs "Dope" and "Silver Spoon" (Korean: 뱁새; RR: Baepsae) from their youth trilogy, which reference generational disparity and millennials having to give up romantic relationships, marriage, children, proper employment, homes, and social life in the face of economic difficulties and societal ills while facing condemnation from the media and older generations." This is a very long sentence. I suggest splitting it for readability.
Done.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:06, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "On April 29, 2019, Time magazine named BTS one of the 100 most influential people of the year" - this is also mentioned in the career section.
Given the length of the article, it being related to what is being discussed in both sections, and the fact that our readers rarely read articles in full, it's worth stating in both places.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:06, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have made several edits here for MoS fixes, ref. formatting and minor copy-edits. FrB.TG (talk) 09:43, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

FrB.TG, I've made those changes or otherwise replied and your changes look good. Thanks for the review and help with this article and I hope you're feeling better.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:06, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support My comments were dealt with in a speedy manner by the three nominators. My review was mostly based on prose and MoS concerns, but I also had some involvement with the sourcing before the renomination. With K. Peake's thorough source review, I am confident that it meets the sourcing criteria as well. I understand Buidhe's concern for sources-to-text accuracy but very few spot-checks of my own didn't show anything to be worried about; please note this is not a pass on spot-checking and would have to be conducted more thoroughly (should it be requested). FrB.TG (talk) 05:14, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments by K. Peake

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Resolved comments from K. Peake

Note: All "platinum", "gold, and "silver" adjectives in prose and narrative have been changed to lower case only throughtout the article now. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:01, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • I don't think citations are needed for Columbia and Universal in the infobox when these labels are sourced in the body.
  • Same as above for Big Hit Entertainment in the lead, with this debut being directly mentioned in the body.
  • Where is the alternative universe storyline sourced in the body? Also, the "and" here should have a comma before it.
I called it an alternate reality to avoid double use of universe.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:25, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The body says they were the quickest act to achieve four number-ones since Justin Timberlake, not Michael Jackson.
Justin T. now. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:40, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The second and third paragraphs are quite large, especially the last one; I would suggest converting the lead into four paras.
Four paragraph lead section now. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:44, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The 32 millions figure is not directly mentioned in the body, even though it can be sourced.
Having sold million of albums...and growing sales. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:48, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • You have not sourced the Top Touring Artists of the 2010s anywhere, also I don't think number 45 should be in brackets.
Trimming old accolades from 2010. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:52, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The "Next Generation Leaders" quote is not sourced.
Now sourced in Accolades and Awards section. ErnestKrause (talk) 17:05, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The most influential people in the world ranking is not sourced.
Now sourced in Accolades and Awards section. ErnestKrause (talk) 17:05, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Stylize as Billboard Music Awards.
Stylized. ErnestKrause (talk) 17:11, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The UNICEF partnership is not sourced.
It is now.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:21, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Add a comma after "BTS was formed in 2010".
  • "unlike Seo Taiji's music," → use "the group" instead because this is not his solo work.
Rephrased.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:21, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Make sure you do not use "the group" or "they" on too many consecutive occasions in this article.
I only saw one place where consecutive sentences begin with either and I changed it.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:21, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I don't necessarily mean starting a sentence, more so the mentions of the group directly after each other being monotonous. --K. Peake 09:25, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I've done about a half dozen of these; are there more that need attention? ErnestKrause (talk) 15:44, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the top five in South Korea on the Gaon Music Chart." → "the top five on the Gaon Music Chart in South Korea."
I rejigged it as "the top five on South Korea's Gaon Music Chart".--Wehwalt (talk) 19:23, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "This record was released" → "The album was released" and a full-stop is needed for the previous sentence.
Done Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 17:23, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The nightclub is not mentioned anywhere as being where the group had their first performance.
Not mentioned in a paragraph but there is a picture of the club with the caption "Exterior of the nightclub Troubadour (photo taken 2006) where BTS held their first concert in the US for free" Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 17:09, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The last entry in their" → "The last entry in BTS'".
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 16:40, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove commas before albums and tours in the body for instances like Dark & Wild and 2014 BTS Live Trilogy Episode II: The Red Bullet, as these are not needed.
Drop commas. ErnestKrause (talk) 20:52, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Add the release year of The Most Beautiful Moment in Life, Part 1.
Done Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 17:15, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "beautiful moment in life."" any of these quotes when it is not a full sentence should have the punctuation outside of speech marks per MOS:QUOTE.
Should be outside now. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:00, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "This third EP explored the" → "The EP explored the".
Done Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 17:15, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 16:14, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Try to avoid too many consecutive uses of "the album" or any similar terms.
Trimmed this phrase when used in consecutive sentences. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:06, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The img of them performing in France does not have any relevancy to the article.
They're performers and it's the only image we have of them performing on stage in that era.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:28, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This is passable, then. --K. Peake 09:25, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and eight of its tracks" → "and eight of the tracks".
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 16:14, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Add a comma before "which combined the themes".
Done Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 17:15, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Its lead single was" → "The lead single was".
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 16:13, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "aesthetics and lyricism and" → "aesthetics and lyricism, and".
Done Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 17:26, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Stylize as Billboard Music Awards on the img text too.
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 16:43, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "a remake of Seo Taiji's" → "a remake of his".
{Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 15:38, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • When it has been a couple sentences or so since a year was mentioned, add what one the month was in and same if a new para.
Add/delete date comments seem to pull in different directions. See your note directly below this. I've done both, but if you see more needed then let me know. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:14, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This para is one where it is really unclear, starting to talk about July then September with no mention of a year for BTS. --K. Peake 09:25, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Changed to July 2017 for clarity. ErnestKrause (talk) 19:22, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The release years of Wings and You Never Walk Alone should not be mentioned, as you have already done this.
This one and the last one seem to pull in different direction about add/delete dates for readability. I've done both and if there are still problems with this just list them here, and I'll look at them. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:14, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The US television debut is not mentioned anywhere, although their American Music Awards appearance is.
It is mentioned in a image caption "BTS at the 45th American Music Awards shortly before making their debut performance on US television on November 19, 2017." So let me know if you still want it to be mentioned in the paragraph. Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 16:19, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
To call something their debut, you need an actual source stating this, --K. Peake 09:25, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Shorten caption to say it is in America. ErnestKrause (talk) 19:59, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Psy is the first," → "Psy was the first," with the wikilink.
OK.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:57, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "attained Gold certification" → "attained gold certifications".
On the certifications, there is a discussion on article talk that certifications should be capitalized.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:25, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
They're now all lower cased per comment above.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:21, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "achieved Platinum status" → "achieved platinum status".
See above.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:57, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "on December 6." → "on December 6, 2017."
Done.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:04, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done on RIAJ. For the caps, see previous comment.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:57, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "released on April 4," → "released on April 4, 2018,".
Got it.
  • "It is the seventeenth" → "It is the 17th" per MOS:NUM.
Numbers expressible by one and two words can be expressed as words per MOS:NUMERAL.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:25, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "certified Gold by the RIAA in November." → "certified gold by the RIAA in November 2018."
Done on the year, for the rest see above.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:57, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "received Platinum certifications" → "received platinum certifications".
See above.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:57, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done, though using a redirect is quite proper.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:57, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 17:34, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the UK and Australia[164][165] and the group's" → "the UK and Australia[164][165], and the group's".
Done with the comma before the cites.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:32, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "debuted at number 8" → "debuted at number eight".
Got it.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:04, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:04, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • No Rose Bowl performance is sourced.
BTS were also the first Asian act to sell out the Rose Bowl. Now sourced in Impact section. ErnestKrause (talk) 20:48, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "certified Double Platinum by Gaon," → "certified double platinum by Gaon," and specify what country.
All 'gold, platinum, silver' should now be done. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:16, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The world million should not be capitalised
Since it's a certification, see above.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:04, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Got it.--Wehwalt (talk)
  • "later attained Silver certification in the UK," → "was later certified silver by the BPI in the UK,".
Done with slightly different phrasing.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:32, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
OK.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:32, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "in the US[199]" missing a full-stop.
Done.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:32, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "on Billboard's Top Billboard 200 Artists–Duo/Group ranking," → "on Billboard's Top Billboard 200 Artists–Duo/Group ranking,".
Done Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 14:18, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Add (IFPI) in brackets.
Done Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 14:18, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 14:18, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 18:07, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "be certified Quadruple Million." → "be certified quadruple million."
Done by Ernest Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 14:18, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "US Billboard 200 making" → "US Billboard 200, making".
Done Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 14:18, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • top-ten → top-10
Done Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 14:18, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "of their debut The concert" → "of their debut. The concert".
Done by Wehwalt Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 16:39, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "chart becoming the fastest-selling single since Taylor Swift's" → "chart, becoming the fastest-selling single since Swift's".
Done Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 14:34, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "on US's overall radio chart." → "on the overall US radio chart."
Changed Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 14:34, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:40, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Do not use Kyung Hyun Kim's full name after the first mention of him.
I thought it safer since other Kims authored others of the sources.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:11, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You could simply write Kyung Hyun if so? --K. Peake 09:25, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • It is not sourced that "Butter" was performed at the AMAs.
Cite added. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:35, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Instead of a source for the AMA performance Ernest, you added one for the 2022 Butter Grammy performance. Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 15:51, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "at number two and" → "at number two, and".
Added comma Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 14:34, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "with "Dynamite" placing tenth." → "with "Dynamite" placing 10th."
See MOS:NUMBERAL, MOS:ORDINAL.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:11, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Stylize as 2022 Billboard Music Awards.
Italicized Billboard Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 14:34, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Usage of "the band" is not appropriate, as they are never once called this in the lead.
They are called a boy band in the lead.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:11, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "of 1.7 Billion dollars" → "of 1.7 billion dollars".
Fixed.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:11, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Mention the date of the Freddie Mercury tribute performance.
This looks like the Live Aid concert which is sources. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:21, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Add the date of it per the source(s), then. --K. Peake 09:25, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Add date. ErnestKrause (talk) 19:59, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Linking now. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:21, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove the years for their albums and songs that have previously been mentioned.
This has to do with the sentence about their use of music genres and I think it's useful to have the years in that sentence to allow the reader to trace this.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:26, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe so, but there should not be usage of brackets though. --K. Peake 09:25, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
There should be no square brackets at this point; let me know if any are still there. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:44, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • However, add the release year to any of the works that are new to the article at this point.
  • The Crystal S. Anderson quote should be written with noted and a comma before the quote if it is a full sentence; elsewise, move punctuation outside of the quote.
It's a full sentence. Done.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:40, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 16:03, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 15:42, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • [311][312][313][314][315] is too many sentences grouped together; move around to appropriate areas for avoiding this problem.
  • "from the very start"." → "from the very start."" per this being a full sentence.
Done.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:40, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove links on "No More Dream" and "N.O".
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 18:03, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove link on "Dope".
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 15:51, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove comma after The Most Beautiful Moment in Life: Young Forever.
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 15:54, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "BTS' 2016 studio album Wings focused on" → "Wings focused on".
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 15:46, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove the release year of Be, also add a speech mark to end the quote.
I've closed the quote marks. But I think it's helpful to the reader to have years in the sections which are not chronological, not all readers will be expert on the timing of BTS's discography.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:42, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove links on "Am I Wrong" and "Forever Rain".
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 15:32, 23 Juns 2022 (UTC)
  • "Journalist Jeff Benjamin praise" → "Journalist Jeff Benjamin praised".
Got it.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:11, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove link on Time.
Done Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 17:34, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and 60s age demographic"." → "and 60s age demographic."" per this being a full sentence quoted.
Done.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:40, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "as effectively as South Korean singer Psy did" → "as effectively as Psy did".
Done by Wehwalt Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 16:39, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove commas around the Bank of Korea.
Remove commas. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:23, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Add a comma after Soft Power: The Means to Success in World Politics.
Add comma. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:05, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Linked. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:09, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Youna Kim, Villabert and" → "Kim, Villabert, and" unless Youna is the surname, then write that here per it being the second mention.
Let it remain as it is. As Wehwalt previously mentioned there are others who share the surname. Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 14:53, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You still need to add the comma for the correct form of English. --K. Peake 09:25, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Villabert has been dropped as per your indication of being an unreliable source. Edit rewritten without her cite. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:36, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Changed Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 14:53, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove the introduction to Moon Jae-in since you did this previously; refer to him as simply Moon on all times after the introduction.
Completed Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 14:53, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
changed wikilink Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 14:53, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and an expansion of" → "as well as an expansion of".
Done! Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 14:53, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:11, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove wikilink on COVID-19 pandemic.
Duplicate link removed.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:42, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "in 2018[375][376] and promoting" → "in 2018,[375][376] and promoting".
Done Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 16:03, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wikilink Fila to itself.
OK.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:57, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Stylize asBillboard Music Awards.
{Done Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 16:08, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove capitalisation for million, platinum, gold, diamond and silver.
Ernest has done this. Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 16:28, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Use {{spaced ndash}} so there is the right space for members.
Done Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 16:39, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Should Wings be italicised in the tour title when it is not in the article?
Should be ready for source review when available. ErnestKrause (talk) 21:23, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Kyle Peake, I think we've gotten just about everything. Do you have a position on whether to support the article for promotion? And are you good on the source review? Many thanks for most thorough and searching reviews.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:51, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I still take issue with overusage of the group or similar terms, which I elaborated on above from my initial comment. Also, the img calling the concert their first still needs a citation to actually verify this, writing Kyung Hyun after the first mention would be most appropriate per previous and are you sure repeated release years should be in brackets again? Source review responses below. --K. Peake 06:41, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
For the image, I just removed the first all together, as I couldn't find any source to back up the claim. Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 09:34, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]


Source review
[edit]

Source review

  • Shouldn't Universal Music Japan be cited as publisher instead?
Changed Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 14:24, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ditto for Behance.
Done 14:24, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
  • If possible, Naver should only be linked on the first instance.
Naver is virtually unmentioned in the article, though it appears in about 103 citaions. Each one of the cites links Naver following this Wikipedia convention for citations. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:59, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 7 is missing a publisher.
Publisher is listed in Korean on the last of the nine image pages on Amazon if someone can access the micro-font on the screen here [3]. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:13, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Make sure one is adding in some way or another then, as otherwise the citation is not filled in correctly. --K. Peake 06:55, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Gaon Music Chart should be cited as publisher instead, also only wikilink it on the first instance.
Gaon is attributed to its webcite and as a 'work' in the citations throughout the article follwoing the Wikipedia convention for linking with each citation. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:20, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding this stance on linking for citations, have you done this for all repeated works/publishers then? --K. Peake 06:55, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I went through all the publishers and added links where necessary. The work field is no longer used in this article.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:23, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Cite Melon as publisher instead.
It is compiled from online data provided by web-based music providers such as Genie, Melon, FLO, Soribada, Naver VIBE, KakaoMusic and Bugs. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:23, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link Mwave to Mnet (TV channel) solely on the first instance instead, also this should be always cited as publisher.
Done but I've piped on every instance per the explanations.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:52, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
DoneBtspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 15:58, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Only link Billboard on the first ref.
The Billboard links are to indivual pages mostly for their individual lists such as: Billboard Global 200 and US Billboard Hot 100, etc. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:26, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Only link Oricon on the first ref.
There are over 40 link to Oricon which are virtually all done for the individual citations following the Wikipedia policy for linking each individual citation. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:31, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Always cite Yonhap News Agency as publisher and only link the first time.
Done Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 15:58, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I've linked them per other comment.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:29, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Cite Fuse as publisher instead on both refs and pipe to Fuse (TV channel) on the first instance.
Done, though I have piped on both because of the convention for citations mentioned by Ernest.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:38, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Alright, but good thing you changed it to this rather than the incorrect magazine article. --K. Peake 06:55, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Are there MOS:CAPS issues with ref 73, or is that just how Youth is stylized? Same with MAMA for ref 153 and Map of the Soul for refs 212 and 259?
Restylize fonts back to lower case. The 'Youth' upper case was actually stylized in the Korean title using only upper case English. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:47, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • MOS:QWQ issues with refs 75 and 204.
Both QWQ fixed. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:53, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Cite CNN as publisher instead.
Done.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:29, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Korea Herald should only be linked on the first occasion.
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 16:20, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I've linked them per the above,--Wehwalt (talk) 21:29, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ditto for Billboard Japan.
They're linked per above.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:29, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
What happened to doing this, also cite it as work/website instead? --K. Peake 06:55, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I've changed that and listed (and linked) Billboard as the publisher.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:51, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Cite Official Charts Company as publisher instead and only wikilink on the first occasion.
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 20:54, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • MOS:CAPS issues with refs 133, 250 and 261.
Done Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 22:18, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pipe Huffington Post to HuffPost on the first ref only.
This should be cited as work/website, also pipe to the Wiki I said rather than the current redirect. --K. Peake 06:55, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I've done it, though cited as publisher.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:36, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 135 is missing a publisher and via.
Done Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 22:06, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • TeenVogue → Teen Vogue with the link, only citing once and fix MOS:QWQ issues.
Done, usual caveat re linking them all.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:29, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pipe Variety to Variety (magazine) on the first instance only, always citing as work/website/magazine.
Done, see above.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:29, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Cite MSN as publisher instead.
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 16:57, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Only wikilink USA Today on the first instance.
Similar comment.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:29, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Same as above for Simon Wiesenthal Center.
Similar comment.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:29, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why is Naver not cited as via on ref 151?
Cited it. Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 17:53, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Similar comment.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:29, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Cite Grammy as publisher instead and fix MOS:CAPS issues with both refs.
The citation was correct, but what about the capitals issues? --K. Peake 06:55, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The proper publisher is The Recording Academy and I've changed it. I've title-cased the "GRAMMYS", which I guess is what you were talking about.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:57, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 160 has MOS:QWQ issues and remove the link on Teen Vogue.
The link can be kept, but what about the quotation marks issue? --K. Peake 06:55, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I've changed the interior quotes to italics since SNL should be italicized.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:57, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The BBC citations should be publishers instead.
Done.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:29, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Cite British Phonographic Industry as publisher instead and only wikilink the first time.
Done, similar comment.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:29, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Cite Korean Culture and Information Service as publisher instead.
Done.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:29, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Cite IFPI as publisher instead and only wikilink on the first occasion.
  • myx.abs-cbn.com → ABS-CBN with the wikilink and citing as publisher instead.
Done Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 16:31, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Only link Rolling Stone on the first instance.
Similar comment.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:29, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Cite Metacritic as publisher instead.
Done Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 00:28, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Only link Vox on the first instance.
Similar comment.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:29, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Change pitchfork.com to Pitchfork.
Done Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 16:19, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Changed to Korea Economic Daily instead as it has an article. Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 16:19, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Cite ARIA Charts as publisher instead.
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 16:55, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Add via Naver to any sources that are citing the website without you having added the parameter.
Did you catch this one? --K. Peake 06:55, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link NME on the first ref only.
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 16:24, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Cite Music Business Worldwide as publisher instead and fix MOS:CAPS issues.
The caps issues still prevail and you need to wikilink this. --K. Peake 06:55, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 16:27, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Billboard magazine → Billboard.
Done.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:29, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Independent → The Independent.
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 16:23, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 16:26, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 16:26, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 16:26, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Independent should only be linked on the first instance.
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 16:23, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Similar comment.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:29, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ditto for Los Angeles Times.
Similar comment.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:29, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pipe Bloomberg to Bloomberg News on ref 290 and cite as publisher instead.
Done.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:29, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Dazed should only be linked on the first instance.
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 16:21, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You missed this, also cite as work/website instead. --K. Peake 06:55, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Linked and cited as magazine.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:57, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Shouldn't ref 307 be cited to lead to the bibliographical citation? Either way, link Triumph Books.
Totally missed this too. --K. Peake 06:55, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I've fixed that now. Sorry these fell through the cracks.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:57, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Entertainment Weekly should only be linked on the first instance.
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 05:44, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Why for this one only? --K. Peake 06:55, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Added for other two instances.--Wehwalt (talk) 15:07, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ditto for Time.
  • Cite Radio.com as publisher instead and pipe to Audacy.
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 05:43, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove All Things Considered from ref 341 and cite NPR as publisher instead with the link; the other citation should cite it as publisher with no link however.
Done with similar comments.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:29, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 18:31, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Cite The Korea Society as publisher instead.
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 18:03, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Cite UPI as publisher instead.
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 16:22, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Missed all of these. --K. Peake 06:55, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Cite Herald Corportation as publisher instead.
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 16:53, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Two of ref 392 citations are not filled in properly.
Done Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 17:47, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Cite Recording Industry Association of Japan as publisher instead.
  • The Bibliography stuff is fine, but link any of the citations on first usage.
Part two
[edit]
  • What makes these high-quality sources:
  • Star News
Listed at WP:KO/RS Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 6:21, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
  • My Daily
Listed at WP:KO/RS Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 14:52, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • BNTNews
They seem to be defunct now, but by the description here, they probably qualified.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:41, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Listed at WP:KO/RS Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 06:23, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • OSEN
Listed at WP:KO/RS Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 14:52, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • KStyle
It is used as a reference in this high-quality reliable source and therefore I presume it is high-quality itself.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:20, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • isplus.live.joins.com (not sure about the formatting either)
It's reliable, and it's actually the website for Ilgan Sports which is mentioned below. Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 14:52, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Fix the formatting for this website, then. --K. Peake 06:55, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Added publisher and website. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:32, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • TV Report
A scholarly source here has found it worth citing, so I'd say it's OK]].--Wehwalt (talk) 13:41, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Listed at WP:KO/RS Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 19:23, 25 June 2022
  • News1 (this ref also has MOS:CAPS issues)
Listed at WP:KO/RS Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 14:52, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ten Asia
Listed at WP:KO/RS Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 14:52, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sports Today
  • An examination of their website shows that they have an individual, Kim Han-kyung, who is listed as editor/publisher, and who is not the person responsible for writing the content. Accordingly, there seems to be editorial oversight and the professional appearance of that website supports that.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:30, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Why is it a high-quality RS? (t · c) buidhe 21:11, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Buidhe, could you set out your view of a high quality RS, since it is not defined at WP:WIAFA and some of the nominators are relatively new to the process?
    At a bare minimum to be RS you must be able to show that the source has a reputation for fact checking or accuracy. Just existing and calling oneself a news website is not enough to count as a RS; many such sources are rated non-reliable by the Wikipedia community. High quality means to me that the source has a strong reputation for fact checking and accuracy rather than a marginal reputation for fact-checking and accuracy, which would be a marginally reliable source. An example of a high-quality RS would be a peer-reviewed article published by researchers in their area of expertise. (t · c) buidhe 23:13, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I'd concur with much of that. But even if we grant that the burden of showing "high quality" is on the nominators, it's answered for the ones that the Korean wiki project has found to be reliable, since they're probably in a better position to assess than we are. I'd go so far as to say that where there is such an assessment, the burden would be to show unreliability or bias. As a practical matter, these are the sort of things that can't be definitively settled (since finding sources saying a site has a strong reputation vs a bare reputation would be challenging even for the most common English-language sources), so we do the best we can with what information we can garner.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:03, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Wehwalt's comment appears to be related to the standard approach taken by Wikipedia for reliable sources which is either to green light them as reliable, or to red light them as unreliable; there is a middle area also used by Wikipedia policy to identify 'use only with caution', or to make partial exclusions for some sources. For example, some magazines allow use only if editors are the authors, and to exclude contributors who are not editors at the magazine in question. The regular reading of 'high quality' seems to mean a confirmation that they are not red-flagged as to being unreliable sources by Wikipedia. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:38, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Getting back to "Sports Today", it is cited in several high-quality reliable sources listed here and therefore it is presumably high quality itself (the search is for the website's URL).--Wehwalt (talk) 14:20, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • TV Daily (this needs to be stylized consistently for refs if kept and add the language parameter always too)
Also listed at WP:KO/RS Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 16:29, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • SEDaily
Cited in several high-quality references listed here and therefore presumably high quality reliable.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:20, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • NewsWorks
Up to date Korean website for current affairs and news events. ErnestKrause (talk) 19:56, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Why is it a high-quality RS? (t · c) buidhe 21:11, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It's cited in this high-quality reliable source and I presume it the same.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:20, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Arama! Japan
Website providing broad coverage of music and pop culture events in Japan. ErnestKrause (talk) 19:44, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That doesn't explain why it's a high-quality RS. (t · c) buidhe 21:08, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Cited, twice, in this high quality reliable source.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:41, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • FirstPost
Breaking News from India. Firstpost is linked to its Wikipedia article which looks acceptable. ErnestKrause (talk) 19:40, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Why is it a high-quality RS? (t · c) buidhe 21:08, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Firstpost is cited in a number of high-quality reliable sources as per this search here (disregard the first one) and therefore I presume that it is high quality reliable.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:41, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Elite Daily
Elite Daily is an American online news platform founded by David Arabov, Jonathon Francis, and Gerard Adams. The site describes its target audience as millennials. Seems fine according to the linked Wikipedia article. ErnestKrause (talk) 19:38, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Why is it a high-quality RS? (t · c) buidhe 21:08, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It's cited in a number of high quality reliable sources per this search here and therefore I presume it is the same.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:41, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Stereogum
This is an award-winning blog, about which we have an article, Stereogum. Scott Lapatine's would seem to qualify as that of an established subject-matter expert, given the blog is 20 years old.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:34, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
In the vast majority of instances blog isn't a "high-quality reliable source" even if you could argue SPS. Since the band is made up of a few living people BLPSPS likely applies. (t · c) buidhe 18:25, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I've cut that source and also removed the one style of music that seems exclusively sourced to that reference.--Wehwalt (talk) 18:50, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • IZE (this ref also has MOS:QWQ issues)
Cannot locate this in current version of article. Where is this quote-within-quote? ErnestKrause (talk) 14:54, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hwang, Hyo-jin (April 1, 2019). "BTS pledges to "tell the story of our generation with our lyrics""
Ref. 317 Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 14:57, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed quote marks. IZE is a Korean pop culture magazine which follows K-Pop. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:27, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • 일간스포츠
Read about it here, Ilgan Sports, so it checks out. Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 14:52, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Why is it a high-quality RS? (t · c) buidhe 21:08, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It's also listed at WP:KO/RS Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 16:27, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • 머니투데이
MTN Korean news source. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:41, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Why is it a high-quality RS? (t · c) buidhe 21:09, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It is used as a citation in multiple Korean periodicals and books. For example here: [4]. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:55, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Acclaim Magazine
Australian produced magazine on style adn culture. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:37, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Why is it a high-quality RS? (t · c) buidhe 21:10, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Cited in a number of high-quality reliable sources, here and therefore presume it's the same.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:41, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Muse
Industry high quality format fashion magazine in tabloid size format. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:34, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Why do you think it's "high quality" (t · c) buidhe 21:11, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Appears as an extension of a TV channel in existence for over 10 years, extending to entertainment and sports coverage. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:58, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Business of Fashion
Industry fashion magazine which is also sold on Amazon with their business description displayed there. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:34, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Why would being sold on Amazon indicate it's a high-quality RS? (t · c) buidhe 21:07, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Cited in high-quality reliable sources here, presume it is the same.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:41, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • JoyNews24
In Korean, used throughout Wikipedia, for example Lomon. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:29, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That doesn't explain why it's a high-quality RS. (t · c) buidhe 21:07, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Cited as a source of this, which is used as a source in this article with its quality unchallenged.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:41, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
JoyNew24 is unreliable, so I removed it and replaced it with the Yohnap News source instead. Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 19:04, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Refinery29; this is one that is required to be removed per WP:RSP on it
Switch cite to International Business Times. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:24, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
IBT is not a RS (t · c) buidhe 21:07, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Switch IBT to The Korean Herald. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:22, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Revolutionaries; this is owned by Medium so needs to be removed per WP:RSP
Drop Villebert, go with Quessard as reliable source. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:13, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

--K. Peake 09:27, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • I'm fairly sure all 52 via Naver edits are now in place. Wehwalt also says all the rest seems ready as well. Should be ready for your next set of edit comments when you have a chance to add them. ErnestKrause (talk) 17:56, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • ErnestKrause and Wehwalt I still do take issue with Kyung Hyun Kim's full name being used every instance when I pointed out how you could fix this especially since it is monotonous, brackets () are still used for albums after the first mentions despite it being stated otherwise, refs 134 and 342 are formatted incorrectly and finally, why is HuffPost cited as publisher? --K. Peake 16:49, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Kyle Peake, given that Kim is the surname, wouldn't it be improper to refer to them by their other names? I've removed the brackets outside the lead, fixed the references and cited HuffPost as websites.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:09, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
When he is the most recent Kim mentioned, use the surname only; elsewise, use the full one again. K. Peake 17:41, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That's done.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:45, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
With all of these sorted now, I proudly support this article's candidacy! --K. Peake 20:58, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks indeed for all the work you put in.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:02, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Coordinator comment - at about three weeks in with no strong movement towards a consensus to promote, this nomination is liable to be archived within three or so days unless substantial progress is made. Hog Farm Talk 01:15, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'd hope you'd hold off long enough to see if the two substantial reviews we've had result in two supports and also there's a good chance at having the source review passed.--Wehwalt (talk) 01:55, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I wholeheartedly disagree, as there have been heavy efforts to improve this article. --K. Peake 20:58, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
And I'd ask coordinators to notice FrB.TG's comment above that they've been ill and are just getting back to finish their review. Wehwalt (talk) 22:50, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Image review - pass

[edit]
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 2:26, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 2:34, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 2:42, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
I added the archive link Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 2:56, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 2:29, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 2:29, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:05, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I've added personality rights templates to all images so requiring.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:00, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Suggest adding alt text to all the images for accessibility per MOS:ACCIM. See MOS:ALT for examples. -- EN-Jungwon 14:54, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments by Hawkeye7

[edit]

I don't know a thing about K-Pop and don't even know the difference between a vocalist and a rapper. But while I'm here:

  • References required for the Concert toours section

Otherwise looks good. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:16, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks for the reviews and support. I'll fine-tune anything necessary on the images tomorrow.--Wehwalt (talk) 02:07, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Ippantekina

[edit]

I have not thoroughly examine the article. Here are some comments from my first impression:

  • Kudos to the scholarly sources!
  • Remove Metro per WP:RSP.
Removed and placed with Billboard source. Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 4:16, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
  • I wonder if this is necessary: In the United Kingdom, BTS is the first Korean group to receive BPI certification, and holds seven silver singles,[398] one gold single,[399] one platinum single,[400] seven silver album certifications,[401] and three gold album certifications.[402]" the claim "the first Korean group to receive BPI certification is unsourced, and the listing of all certifications appears as WP:INDISCRIMINATE. The same goes to the specific listing of RIAA certs; I suggest adding only the overalls (i.e. xx million digital singles certified)
I've cut this. Having a running total is probably not going to be worth it.--Wehwalt (talk) 18:27, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Use {{lang}} to correctly render foreign-language names
  • Use |script-title=ko: (or |script-title=ja:) in {{cite web}} to correctly render foreign-language website titles
I've added them all. Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 20:22, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I must say the prose needs thorough fine-tuning
I've gone through it. Can you take a second look?--Wehwalt (talk) 19:32, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The language is not up to standards at some places, i.e. how do you define "Moderate success" or "Worldwide recognition"? with UNICEF celebrating its success how successful was the campaign? Was it measurable/quantifiable? and attracted many new fans WP:PEACOCK. This demonstrated the growing power of the band's fanbase POV; the number speaks for itself. "a dual exploration of the group's electro-pop and hip-hop leanings" this can be safely paraphrased without quotation marks. Such language may be appropriate for a GA, but not for an FA.
I've gone through it and taken out anything that might be construed as peacocky, in particular changing the mentions you've pointed out.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:32, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Three subsections for a two-to-three-year chunk are a lot! I know they have been a smash and broken numerous records, but still, remove whatever can be removed and use summary style.
I've cut out what I thought was relatively trivial.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:32, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The article is a little sprawling and some bits of information can be safely excluded—i.e. In April, BTS became the first South Korean artist to sell more than 20 million albums cumulatively ... making them the best-selling artist in South Korean history. (the 32.7 million figure in the Awards section is enough) or "Dynamite" remained at number two, making BTS the fourth group (after the Beatles, Bee Gees, and OutKast) to simultaneously occupy the top two spots on the Hot 100 (if they are the fourth group to achieve this feat it can be left in the song article). Information on the evolution of themes/styles can be grouped altogether in the "Artistry" section.
I've deleted a fair amount along these lines.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:32, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

— Ippantekina (talk) 03:45, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Comment by CactiStaccingCrane

[edit]
  • Oppose Comment: Sorry for being harsh, but I have some big concerns about BTS#Fandom's dueness and without it being addressed, I don't feel comfortable this article getting a FA status. To be very blunt, I feel that the section is too promotional, with phrases such as the fandom regularly embraces activism on charitable causes and socio-political issues, charitable contributions, non-hierarchical collective intelligence that transcend cultural and national borders or extending the band's message of positivity into the world. I do think that this section should be kept, but completely rewritten in order to comply with neutrality and somewhat shorten to comply our due proportions policy. Otherwise, great work on BTS, and I'm happy to struck my oppose once my concern is addressed. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 03:58, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I"ve cut some. But the fandom is not puffing, this part of the article is very heavily supported by scholarly sources. I've been involved in music fandom in my time, and the fans' aspirations were heavily focused on the music and on the band members. This is different. To cite from the scholarly sources, Chang and Park, p. 268, "On the whole, we find that the fandoms, constituted through the digital intimacies of cyberspace, gradually proceed from the realm of personal relations and individual experience to an expanding sympathy with social, and even political, issues that organically connect to the experiences of BTS and ARMY members. A moving target, as this living phenomenon has extended in real time to the global stage, it has started to reveal its cultural and social complexity and potential to both reflect and drive social change." Or Lee and Kao, p. 81: " BTS ARMY is extremely well-organized and was able to help motivate BTS to issue a statement and donate funds. In fact, the effectiveness of the fandom has been repeatedly demonstrated in their ardent support of BTS, but in this situation, they prompted BTS to act on a political issue. Most recently, the rise of anti-Asian hate crimes and negative bias incidents due to COVID-19 in the U.S. and elsewhere has led to the hashtag #stopasianhate and #stopAAPIhate. In March 2021, BTS released a statement utilizing the above hashtags to condemn racism against Asian Americans,and stated that they had also experienced racism as Asians when traveling outside of Korea. Their statements resonated with fans across the world and with Asian Americans, as well as Asians in other Western countries.The political power of the BTS ARMY is important for K-pop itself because it showsthe possible trajectory of K-pop as a global cultural phenomenon." It isn't puffing, it's a thing.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:07, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from Lil-Unique1

[edit]
Resolved comments from Lil-unqiue1
  • The overall article size per WP:SIZE is on the upper limits of what we'd expect for a single article. At 233b its approaching the territory where we might we want to split the article
  • The diplomacy section is WP:OR - although I don't disagree that that was BTS have done is a form of soft power, it is original research to say this and synthesis unless specific sources have called it out themselves.
So what you want is sources saying BTS has exercised soft power.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:59, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The second paragraph of the Music Style section is completely synthesised and overly detailed. I'd remove this.
  • In the influences section, picking out specific songs is overly detailed for an overview.
  • Some of the references are missing the "language" field and contain capitals which is a violation of MOS:CAPS
  • Recently this was checked for Korean and Japanese; if any are still there possibly you can list them here. Regarding CAPS, I seem to recall that some of the Korean titles were actually stylized to include the English language album titles in full caps and this stylizing was preserved. Remove it might overstep being able to attribute it to the source in its current format. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:18, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I've found the following that might be worth changing:
Typo resolved.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:33, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 220, BLACKPINK is all in caps - not required per MOS:ALLCAPS
  • Ref 81 BTS ARMY - change army to sentence case
  • Ref 372 has caps in the title
I'd want these addressing ideally >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 21:20, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

These are the initial comments from me. ≫ Lil-Unique1 -{ Talk }- 22:42, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The copyright tool in this case seems to be keying on keywords which the two articles have in common, though I could find no copyvio issues other than false positives which seem to be related to a large number of common words and terms; for example your article uses "BTS' RM and Suga talk mental health, depression, and connecting with fans" are all common words and phrases related to talk about 'mental health', and 'depression', etc. Still, if you believe that you have an instance of comparing one full sentence in your articles to one full sentence in the Wikipedia article, then you can list the A-to-B comparison here. I've not been able to see anything other than the high number of common words and phrases used in describing mental health issues etc. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:48, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It needs paraphrasing. Its not just certain words randomly its an entire phrase/sentence(s)/clauses. Paraphrase or reword in your own words. Other than that I can't find much else to fault here tbh. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 21:13, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The Time magazine one is due entirely to quotes, all I think said by RM, that are common to both articles, and we've put them in quotation marks and attributed them properly. For the EW, again, a lot of it is quotes both articles use and what words ARMY stands for, but I've paraphrased the remainder.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:35, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the review and support.--Wehwalt (talk) 01:12, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support from TheSandDoctor

[edit]

I have given this a readthrough and I am satisfied that the prose meets the standards becoming of a featured article. Well done, ErnestKrause, Wehwalt, and Btspurplegalaxy! --TheSandDoctor Talk 02:29, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Heartfox

[edit]
  • In August 2014, BTS released their first Korean studio album Dark & Wild" — nothing in the ref supports the release date or that it was their first Korean studio album.
  • "t was supported by two singles: "Danger" — not supported by ref
  • "to a crowd of 6,500 fans" — not supported by ref

Three unsourced facts in one paragraph is concerning. Heartfox (talk) 21:49, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I've added in extra citations for each of the items you have listed above. The section you've been reading was recently trimmed for size at the request of other editors and I have restored those citations and done some rewrites. The tour you ask about was a large success for BTS in 2014-2015. Ready for next set of edit requests when you have time to add them here. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:39, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from AJona1992

[edit]
Resolved comments from AJona1992
  • Overuse of "debuting" in the lead as a means of BTS coming into fruition in the music market. As well as the usage of "numerous" seems WP:PEACOCKish. Other examples include "youth" (mainstream section), and lead single throughout the article
I've changed "numerous" and some of the uses of "debut" but really that's the proper term. Regarding youth, I've changed a couple of examples, but that is the accepted term for their trilogy. I don't understand the issue with lead single, it's an accepted term.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:38, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Just because a word is a proper term doesn't excuse it from being overly used. I have no issue with "lead single", the issue is reading it in every sentence. – jona ✉ 19:27, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
What other terminology could be used? I cannot possibly think of a better word to use than that one. Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 23:48, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
There aren't any, all I was saying is that using "lead single" in every sentence is redundant after a few usages. You don't need to say that a particular song was released first in every mention of an album; the leadoff single, it, etc., or quite frankly just mentioning the song following the mention of an album establishes the song was released first, why would you start off with a song release that wasn't its lead in the first place? – jona ✉ 17:02, 23 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I've cut it back to four uses, the first of them being linked.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:36, 23 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why is the first instance of US not the United States?
Fixed.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:38, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • What was the certification from the RIAA?
  • The article states it as: "They became the first Korean ensemble to receive a certification from the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) for their single "Mic Drop", as well as the first act from South Korea to top the Billboard 200 with their studio album Love Yourself: Tear (2018). BTS became one of the few groups since the Beatles with four US number-one albums in less than two years, and Love Yourself: Answer (2018) was the first Korean album certified platinum by the RIAA." ErnestKrause (talk) 23:47, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
And what is that certification? The issue still stands. – jona ✉ 19:27, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Platinum certification. Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 21:46, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Why is Gold in caps but platinum isn't? Also, why link RIAA certification for platinum which is two sentences after the mention of a gold certification? – jona ✉ 17:02, 23 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I've standardized those I think.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:36, 23 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • When did the Beatles and Justin Timberlake accomplish said feats?
That information is included in the body of the article. The lead is intended as a summary, and not everything can appear in a summary.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:45, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
A lead should be a good summarization of the article, for sure. These happen to be feats previously accomplished by other artists, you've only provided who last did it and not when they did it. If it is that important to discuss that in the lead, then it is important for those unfamiliar with the subject to understand when it last was accomplished, not just who. – jona ✉ 19:27, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
In the lead section, I have added the years when the feats were accomplished. Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 23:21, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "for their contributions to spreading Korean culture" shouldn't it be "for their contributions in spreading"?
Agreed, and that is how the source puts it. Changed.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:45, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The change in plan was because album sales were suffering across the music industry," → "Following dwindling album sales in the music market in the country,"
I've redrafted something along those lines.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:45, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • There are a few instance in my initial read of the article where I've found awakward wording: "as well for as for placing" (2010-2014), "was restarted on June 6, 2015 in Malaysia and toured Australia," (2014-2017),
I think I fixed those.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:02, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is "industry insiders" the same thing as music executives?
Their debut appearance? Sprinkel says 200 industry and media members.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:02, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "held their first fan meeting in Seoul" what is the importance of this sentence?
Given the importance that BTS fandom would take on, including the interaction with the band, it's not out of line, I hope, to trace the roots of that relationship a bit.--Wehwalt (talk) 18:49, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I still do not see the importance of their first fan meeting, nothing happened during that event and it's not like other artists have never done such meetings before. – jona ✉ 19:27, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
They did play a set there and we do mention many of their concerts, so I've added that.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:45, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "World Digital Songs Chart" → "World Digital Song Sales chart"
Done.--Wehwalt (talk) 18:49, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Instance of overlinking: Red Bullet Tour, Oricon Albums Chart,
Fixed.--Wehwalt (talk) 18:49, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why is the World Albums chart linked in its second appearance in the article body and not the first?
Fixed.--Wehwalt (talk) 18:49, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "eight of the tracks reached" would prefer to use impacted since you didn't mention their peaks
  • What was the peak of their first appearance on the Billboard 200?
  • The citations states: "Pt. 2 also hit new peaks by hitting No. 1 on both Heatseekers Albums (where the band had previously topped out at No. 6 with The Most Beautiful Moment in Life, Pt. 1) and World Albums (where Pt. 1 peaked at No. 2)." If that's useful then it may be added if needed. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:41, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Their first appearance on the Billboard 200 is definitely important. – jona ✉ 19:27, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This isn't done. – jona ✉ 17:02, 23 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It is now.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:10, 23 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • What was the commercial and critical reception of Youth? You've only mentioned it as a release prior to Wings.
  • "Pre-orders of it broke the record for most albums sold in a month" in which market?
"in South Korea" Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 19:06, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Billboard is a US music chart, why constantly add US in every mention of their charts?
  • The Bubbling Under Hot 100 is a 25-song extension of the Hot 100 and readers unfamiliar with music charts published by Billboard will not understand that. For instance, if the song peaked at number two, without explaining the rules of the Bubbling Under Hot 100, will read as the song peaked at number two and not number 102. Also, what was the peak? I keep reading chart entry for both albums and songs and not their peak performance. Unless their chart entry was notable and Billboard provided an analyst on that, then peak positions should take precedence over just saying "X and Y entered the chart".
  • Saying "high demand" is unnecessary as "demand" suffices.
Done in one case, in the other the whole phrase deleted.--Wehwalt (talk) 18:49, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "achieving the highest monthly sales in the Gaon Album Chart's history" source doesn't say that.
  • "making them the first K-pop boy band to have one" one what?
Have an entry on the Billboard Hot 100. Would you phrase it differently?--Wehwalt (talk) 18:49, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yea, I would explain what that "one" is. – jona ✉ 19:27, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It's explained now.
I think the article's been put through the wringer, and has come a long way since the start of this FAC. I'd suggest we're approaching consensus to promote.--Wehwalt (talk) 01:16, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "their first number one hit" remove "hit" per WP:PEACOCK, saying it reached atop the chart illustrates its success.
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 20:03, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "a remake of Seo Taiji 1995 "Come Back Home"" → "a remake of Seo Taiji's "Come Back Home" (1995)"
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 20:04, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "making them the first K-pop boy band to have one → "making them the first K-pop boy band to do so"
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 20:05, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "well-being among children and young people" aren't they the same thing? just ax children
Did that.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:45, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is an italicization issue in the second para of the 2018-2020 section.
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 20:51, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "started at number one its first week" change to debuted
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 20:48, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Again remove "hit" the two times it is mentioned in the same para
I've removed both from that paragraph.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:15, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "breaking the chart's all-time monthly record again" → needs polishing, there are better ways to rephrase that sentence.
I've rephrased.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:15, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "their highest US sales week in the country to that point." which was?
Added.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:45, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "later became the first" → remove "later", you already mentioned the date when it was certified. Also, remove all "later" as each instance of it is unnecessary; including mentions in Map of the Soul: Persona (also replace "ever" with "all-time"), the soundtrack, "Map of the Soul: Persona, stadium world tour and BTS World" section,
"Later" removed everywhere when in that context.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:45, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "certified units." → remove certified don't need to keep saying it, especially in the same sentence, and while you're at it, please remove the extra period.
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 22:11, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the first act from South Korea to appear." → this sentence is not finished
Clarified.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:45, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the first soundtrack album" → It is my understanding that a soundtrack is an album, so why is "album" mentioned? Also in the same sentence "since Gaon implemented it in 2018", implemented what? The soundtrack or was it a rule change?
Deleted "album" and also deleted the "first" there.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:45, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "crossed 1,000,000 copies," → change to one million, and the second time it is mentioned
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 20:36, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "marking the first time a Korean artist achieved a million shipments for a single in Japan, and setting a record" → it is implied that it is a record if you say "marking the first time"
Removed.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:22, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and rose up 80 places in the following week to number one" → I can tell you guys love to overexplain things. Just say it peaked at number one the following week, rising from number 80 to number one isn't college-level calculus.
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 02:41, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "On August 8, 2019, "Lights" received Million certification from the RIAJ" → missing a word here
I think that's fixed.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:22, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "For the final stop of their record-breaking" → what record did it break? attendance, number of shows, etc.
That's unclear. The source, Billboard, says it was "record-breaking" and says there were more than 2,000,000 attendees for the tour but I'm not sure that is the record spoken of.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:27, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "became the first artists in history" → another example of overexplaining, remove "in history"
Done.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:22, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "also known as the Pop Songs chart," → redundant
Deleted.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:49, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • remove the overlinking of "On (song)"
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 03:19, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "on the genre-specific chart" → redundant
Deleted.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:49, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "On November 30, "Life Goes On" debuted at number one on the Billboard Hot 100 char" → why are we learning about its chart performance two sentences after you talked about it being released?
Rearranged.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:49, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "in just three months" → bias, remove
Just cut there and in one other spot ("just nine days")
  • "since the Beatles in 1964 to do so." → awkward English

removed the "to do so" Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 21:39, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Remove "hits"
Substituted "entries".--Wehwalt (talk) 17:49, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Billboard Singles Chart" → there are over 100 Billboard singles charts, specify.
Clarified.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:49, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "coming at number one," → needs to be fixed
Fixed.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:46, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "YouTube channel on April 17, this time" → remove "this time"
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 20:07, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove "hits"
  • "released the collaboration single" → yet another example of overexplaining, remove.
Done.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:46, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Overlinking of 64th annual Grammy Awards
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 21:29, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • What does the author mean by "black music"? Influences of music performed by black musicians or genres predominately performed by black artists?
That would be correct. Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 22:57, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 22:50, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pipe issue with ballades
Got that I think.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:49, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "in youth, anxieties of school-age youth, and mental health in youth culture." → fix repetition
One "youth" cut.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:45, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Early songs," → is a term used by fans, it needs to be encyclopedic. Remove since you wrote that those songs were from their trilogy.
I don't understand this issue.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:45, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Remove "Early songs". – jona ✉ 17:02, 23 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Rephrased.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:36, 23 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the youngest ever recipients" → remove "ever"
Done Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 20:47, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The entire second para of "Endorsements and awards" is just a list of contributions that were already stated elsewhere in the article body and should be removed.
Not every award has been stated, and it's useful for the reader to have the statistics in one place.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:45, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That's why List of awards and nominations received by BTS exists. Remove the awards already stated elsewhere in the article and keep the ones not mentioned. – jona ✉ 17:02, 23 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Removed.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:18, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The filmography section is supposed to be what? a definition of what a filmography is?
Listed some of their content Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 22:26, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for quickly fixing those issues. I have left some replies for others. – jona ✉ 17:02, 23 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
AJona1992, I think I've gotten everything.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:18, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Besides an ambiguous quote of what "record-breaking" that Billboard reported, I am leaning towards support, though weak support. The prose could be tighter in some places, but I believe the contributors are on the right track. Best – jona ✉ 15:40, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Spot check

[edit]

Footnote numbers refer to this version. I'll have to skip anything in Korean. I've asked for supporting text from the offline sources in a couple of cases.

  • [15] OK.
  • [35] and [36] are the citations for "The EP was supported by two singles: "Boy in Luv" (Korean: 상남자; RR: Sang-namja) and "Just One Day" (Korean: 하루만; RR: Haruman)." The citations show those singles exist, and one of them mentions Skool Luv Affair, but what does it mean to say these singles "supported" the EP? A single from an album supports that album; were these singles also tracks on the EP? If so this is OK.
Yes, the sources are okay, as the singles mentioned are featured on the album. Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 02:23, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • [51] covers "BTS experimented with other styles of music besides hip hop in The Most Beautiful Moment in Life, Part 1, released in 2015."; can you quote the passage in Kim that supports this?
  • [78] covers "moving over 1.5 million copies in South Korea that year and becoming the best-selling album in Gaon Album Chart history"; I see support for the second half of this but not for 1.5 million copies that year.
  • [98] OK.
  • [103] OK.
  • [130] and [131] OK.
  • [176] covers "All three albums of the Love Yourself series have sold more than 2 million copies each in South Korea. Love Yourself: Tear later gained silver certification by the BPI for sales in the UK, becoming their third album to do so following Love Yourself: Answer and Map of the Soul: Persona." It supports the second sentence but does not appear to support the first sentence.
Added source to support first sentence. Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 22:47, 21 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • [206] OK.
  • [218] covers '"Dynamite" debuted at number one on the US Billboard Hot 100 chart, becoming the fastest-selling single since Swift's "Look What You Made Me Do" in 2017—earning BTS their first chart topper and making them the first all-South Korean act (second Asian act overall) to earn a number one single in the US' The cited page says the single "blasted into" the number one spot, but doesn't actually say it was its first week; I think that's OK though. However, I don't see support for the comparison to Swift or for the "first all-South Korean act (second Asian act overall)" comment. I'm looking at the text in the archive copy, since I don't have a subscription; perhaps the live page has text that did not archive?
replaced source and added an additional one supporting "first all-South Korean act (second Asian act overall)" Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 05:00, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • [254] covers "At the end of that month, BTS held their first live performances before an in-person audience since before the pandemic. The band played four sold-out shows at SoFi Stadium in Los Angeles as a continuation of their Permission to Dance on Stage concert series." The review cited is, annoyingly, undated as far as I can see; not that there's any doubt about the dating, but if you could cite something that gives the date (to support "at the end of that month") it would be good. And I don't think this supports the second sentence.
  • [272] OK.
  • [296] is the citation for "BTS' lyrics have also addressed topics outside youth culture specifically. The song "Am I Wrong" from Wings questioned societal apathy towards the state of current events; the lyric "We're all dogs and pigs / we become dogs because we're angry" referenced South Korean Ministry of Education official Na Hyang-wook, who was a proponent of the caste system and described the average person as "dogs and pigs". BTS performed the song on television during the 2016 South Korean political scandal that led to the impeachment of former president Park Geun-hye." Two issues here: first, I don't think we can say "referenced", since the cited text specifically says it's only inferable and not made explicit by the band or the song. Second, I don't see any mention of a TV performance.
  • [332] covers "In 2020, BTS were given the James A. Van Fleet Award in recognition of their outstanding contributions to the promotion of US-Korea relations; to date, they are the youngest honorees and only musicians to receive the award". I don't see support for the second half of this.
Added a source that supports them being the youngest honorees. I've also doubled check the recipients, and BTS are not the first musicians, so I removed that part entirely. Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 00:41, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • [338] covers "The fan community...pushes to feature BTS' music on radio stations and television"; can you quote here the text from Ju that supports this?
    "To achieve this, ARMY organised “BTSx50states,”44 a digital promotional fanbase for pushing BTS’s tracks to local radio stations ARMY even distributed online tactical manuals outlining maneuvers for cases where a station either accepted or refused their selection of music. However, ARMY did not stop here; they started campaigning online for BTS to appear and perform on American television.".--Wehwalt (talk) 01:09, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    That works. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:59, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This is 17 citations, covering 15 chunks of text in the article; of the 13 I was able to check, at least 6 seem to fail. That's an alarming rate. Can you check those citations and see if I've misread those sources? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 20:34, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What we're going to do is go through every citation and check them, then ask for a re-check. Can we have a week?--Wehwalt (talk) 21:54, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that's fine with me. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 23:33, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Mike Christie, we've been working hard on this. Go ahead.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:14, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Great; will take another look. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:13, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Second pass:

  • [7] & [8], supporting "BTS was formed in 2010, after Big Hit Entertainment CEO Bang Si-hyuk wanted to form a hip hop group around RM (Kim Namjoon), an underground rapper who was well known on the music scene in Seoul. BTS was originally supposed to be a hip hop group, but, seeing falling album sales, he changed his plans, thinking a different path would be more marketable. He chose to vary from the usual, highly-regimented idol groups and create one where the members would be individuals rather than an ensemble, and free to express themselves." I have access to [7]; can you quote the text in Sprinkel that also supports this? As far as I can see, we need [8] to cover RM/Kim Namjoon being well-known in Seoul, and the change in plans from hip hop. [7] covers the rest.
    "““he had a particular vision for a hip-hop group. He wanted to build it around Kim Namjoon, an underground rapper who was well established on the Seoul scene before signing on with Bang in 2010. ... “Meanwhile album sales were suffering industry-wide, and thinking it more viable, Bang pivoted to a more performance-based model that brought in aspects from typical idol group"--Wehwalt (talk) 16:11, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    OK. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:43, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • [63]: OK.
  • [84]: OK.
  • [144] & [145] supports "In February 2019, BTS attended the 61st Grammy Awards for the first time as award presenters." I think this is OK but is perhaps imprecisely phrased in the text -- one could read that as meaning they had never attended the Grammys before. How about "In February 2019, BTS attended the 61st Grammy Awards as the first K-Pop award presenters"? And I didn't need to use [145] for that, so perhaps it can be cut?
    It's not wrong as that was the first time they had ever attended the Grammys. Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 17:20, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    OK, but as far as I can see that's not what the source is saying. The source says this is the first time they've presented at the Grammys, and they're the first K-Pop presenters. I don't think it says they had never attended the Grammys, e.g. as nominees. The text in the article now could be read either way, but since the source can't be read both ways, I would change the text to unambiguously say what the source supports. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:45, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • [173]: OK.
  • [203]: OK.
  • [213] & [214], supporting '"Dynamite" debuted at number one on the US Billboard Hot 100 chart, becoming the fastest-selling single since Swift's "Look What You Made Me Do" in 2017—earning BTS their first chart topper and making them the first all-South Korean act (second Asian act overall) to earn a number one single in the US.' I don't see the reference to Swift's single in either source.
  • [224], supporting "The single also topped the Billboard Global 200, becoming their second number one entry and making BTS the first artist to have multiple songs top Billboard's recently created global singles chart.": This is paywalled; can you quote the text that supports this?
    "BTS becomes the first act to have tallied multiple No. 1s on the Global 200, as "Savage Love" follows the septet's "Dynamite," which has spent a week at the summit and this week slips from No. 2 to No. 3." Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 17:33, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    OK. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:42, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • [251], supporting "Between November 27 and December 2, BTS held their first live performances before an in-person audience since before the pandemic. The band played four sold-out shows at SoFi Stadium in Los Angeles as a continuation of their Permission to Dance on Stage concert series." I don't see the reference to Permission to Dance or to the shows being sold out. Both are implied or perhaps deducible so I am not too concerned but it would be better to source them fully.
  • [266]: OK.
  • [273], supporting "The Love Yourself series was primarily influenced by Erich Fromm's The Art of Loving". I don't see this in the source.
Added it back as it's reliable per KO/RS. Added Yohnap News Agency source supporting Erich Fromm's work influencing LY series. Btspurplegalaxy 🗩 🖉 20:14, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • [332] OK.
  • [339] OK.
  • [365]: OK.

This is definitely better, but I have questions about three of the citations above, and requests for the supporting text in a couple of other cases. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:46, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

OK, we'll fix these and I'll go through the refs I haven't already gone through systematically, and I'll ask you for a recheck, if the coords will allow me a few more days.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:58, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm OK with that if the coords are. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:08, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It won't take me long. I'm working as we speak.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:19, 24 July 2022 (UTC)][reply]
Mike Christie, if you could take another look? Many thanks.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:51, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Convenience break
[edit]

Another pass. Footnote numbers refer to this version.

  • [6] OK.
  • [11] is the citation for "The band members lived together, practicing up to 15 hours a day, and first performed before a small crowd of industry insiders in 2013." Can you quote the text in Sprinkel (pp. 46-7) that supports this?
    "With the lineup finally set, the recruits embarked on a grueling training process during which all seven members were constantly together. They lived together, practiced together, and learned together. It was physically and emotionally demanding. Leading up to their debut, they were practicing 12 to 15 hours each day. They were BTS—Bangtan Sonyeondan, the Bulletproof Boy Scouts—and they made their official debut to a room of 200 industry and media members in 2013."--Wehwalt (talk) 22:25, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    That works. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:30, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • [24] OK.
  • [54] is the cite for The Most Beautiful... reaching 171 on the Billboard chart. I'm not seeing it in the linked page, but I'm not sure I'm seeing the page I would see if I had a subscription -- can you check?
    You have to click on the drop down menu and it's under "Billboard 200".--Wehwalt (talk) 22:51, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    OK. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:30, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • [96] OK.
  • [104] OK, but this is one of those "scheduled to" cites -- it would be better to find a cite that they did perform. I don't consider this a problem for this spot check.
I've added a subsequent source.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:49, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • [111] OK.
  • [156] OK.
  • [183] OK.
  • [198] OK as far as I can see, but the paywall is stopping me from seeing the bit about the Beatles -- can you quote that?
It's in the archived version. "The last group to generate four No. 1s faster than BTS was The Beatles, who took just one year and five months between Yesterday and Today (July 30, 1966) and Magical Mystery Tour (Jan. 6, 1968)."--Wehwalt (talk) 03:35, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • [202] OK.
  • [203] OK.
  • [250] OK.
  • [267] OK.
  • [270] OK.
  • [274] OK.
  • [281] cites "Bang Si-hyuk previously acknowledged that K-pop as a whole draws from black music"; can you quote the text from p. 26 of Anderson that supports this?
The quote is "Lee Soo-man, founder of SM Entertainment, one of the “Big Three” Korean entertainment agencies, has said: “We made K-pop based on black music” (quoted in Lie 2012, 357) Bang Shi-hyuk, Korean music producer and CEO of BigHit Entertainment, home of BTS, explains that “Black music is the base. Even when doing many genres like house, urban, and PBR&B, there’s no change to the fact that it is Black music”".--Wehwalt (talk) 03:24, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • [289] OK.
  • [290] OK.
  • [292] OK.
  • [293] OK.
  • [296] OK.
  • [305] OK.
  • [306] cites 'On April 29, 2019, Time magazine named BTS one of the 100 most influential people of the year, labeling them the "Princes of Pop"'; can you quote the supporting text?
    The digital article is here [6] where TIME invited Halsey to write a short tribute to BTS. The caption "Princes of pop" was added by TIME editors to the print edition which is not maintained in their digital archive, though here is an image of the original print version here [7]. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:49, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    OK. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:32, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • [316] cites "Writers identified BTS as leaders even among other highly influential K-pop groups such as Girls' Generation, Super Junior, Exo, Twice, and Blackpink"; can you quote the text from p. 13 of Youna Kim that supports this?
    "While K-pop construction has traditionally been dominated by “Big 3” entertainment companies (SM, YG and JYP) since the mid-1990s, BTS of Big Hit Entertainment since their debut in 2013 has created a global phenomenon that is more widely recognized and influential. The success of K-pop bands, such as Girls’ Generation, Super Junior, Big Bang, EXO, TWICE, BTS and Blackpink, is a direct outcome of the star system’s intense training to deliver a very polished and easily identifiable show. "--Wehwalt (talk) 22:57, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    OK. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:33, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • [326] OK.
  • [345] cites "Feedback from ARMY to BTS affects the group's actions and lyrics; BTS has eliminated certain Korean words that sound like American racial slurs from their songs and ended collaboration with a Japanese producer when Korean ARMY members deemed his views extreme": can you quote the text from pp. 25-27 of Ju that supports this?
    See Wehwalt on #347 below. ErnestKrause (talk) 23:56, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    That supports the first part; I still need the text from Ju that supports the second part. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:37, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    "

Anti-racism within the ARMY fandom also premediates BTS’s live performances. In 2018, black ARMY members reported being harassed and attacked online with racial slurs.42 After that, black ARMY members established an anti-racial community within the fandom, which created the hashtag #BlackARMYsequality.43 In line with the anti-racial movement within ARMY, in 2018 BTS eliminated some words from their new album Fake Love, such as 니가 and 내가, which are pronounced niga and naega. Although these words mean “you” and “I” in Korean, respectively, they sound racist in English pronunciation as they are similar to words used to discriminate against African-Americans. ... For example, the collaboration between BTS and a Japanese producer in 2018 was aborted due to the opposition of the Korean ARMY.48 The Korean ARMY opposed such cooperation because the referred producer is a right-wing extremist who supports the Japanese occupation of Korea’s Joseon Dynasty in the first half of the 20th century.49 Still, foreign ARMY members criticised Korean ARMY for not taking a reasonable stance on the issue.50"--Wehwalt (talk) 03:31, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • [347] cites "The band members themselves agree and have long acknowledged their fans' role in their success"; can you quote the text on p. 144 of Sprinkel that supports this?
    "The lovefest between BTS and their fans is quite a phenomenon to behold, and it’s a practice the members of BTS remain committed to promoting. And at the end of the day, those seven members acknowledge that none of it would have happened without their supporters. “ARMY is everything. ARMY is water. ARMY is air,” Jin told JoJo Wright in 2020. “ARMY is the reason we’re here,” echoed RM.”--Wehwalt (talk) 22:51, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    OK. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:33, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • [355] OK.
  • [375] OK, but as with [104] it would be better to have a citation that post-dates the tour. I think a simple reference that the tour happened would be enough, combined with this one to provide the show dates.

Just one possible problem, and a handful of cases where I've requested a quote of the text I can't access. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:15, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

OK, thanks. I'll get to these tomorrow. Thanks for your patience and understanding.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:25, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No worries. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:30, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Checked off a few above. The only ones left are [198], [281], and [345]. ErnestKrause, I saw your note about [281] above, but the goal of a spotcheck is to check that the sources already in the article support the text, so the Guardian articles, while they might be useful to fix a citation issue, aren't what I'm looking for here. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:37, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Mike, I got up at midnight to complete the three above. That should be everything, possibly excepting the bit about the tours, which I'll look at in the morning.--Wehwalt (talk) 03:35, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Pass. I took a look at the last three points above and all are fine; this third pass through came up 100% clean, which is a relief -- it would have been hard not to fail the spotcheck if there had been even a couple of errors out of the thirty I checked. The two points about the tours aren't issues for the spotcheck. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:46, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for bearing with us on this. Buidhe, you stated you would not strike your oppose until a spot check was passed, here. You were quite right that it needed one. Will you strike your oppose?--Wehwalt (talk) 12:55, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No response. I would suggest that we've done everything requested, and that there is consensus for promotion.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:38, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Pursuant to WP:FACSUPPORTOPPOSE I have left a note on Buidhe's talk page informing her that the nominators are of the opinion that her oppose has been addressed in full. The diff is here. I've also, as prescribed in WP:FACSUPPORTOPPOSE, left notice on this page directly after her signature that her concerns have been resolved. That diff is here.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:31, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Closure?

[edit]

It's been some time since the last comment. Are the coordinators waiting for something from the nominators? Or from anyone else?--Wehwalt (talk) 13:47, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Just @FAC coordinators: pinging the coordinators to my question just above. I used the wrong template at first.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:51, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
On my short list, Wehwalt, I expect to look it over tonight or tomorrow. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 14:54, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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