Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/45th Chess Olympiad/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 20 October 2024 [1].

45th Chess Olympiad

Nominator(s): Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:49, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about an international team chess tournament in the spirit of the Olympic Games that took place in Budapest, Hungary in September 2024. The featured article on the 44th Chess Olympiad was used as a model.Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:49, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

Don't use fixed px size

Some images are missing alt text. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review. I've corrected the image formatting.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 07:25, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Edwininlondon

Well, that was quick, it only just ended. I shall review in a few days time, once the frequency of edits has gone down. Edwininlondon (talk) 09:37, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just commenting on the lead for now:

(Hungarian: 45. sakkolimpia) ==> if I read MOS:LEAD and MOS:LEADLANG correctly then this should be removed. I can see that the other Olympiad articles do this as well, but it just clutters the opening sentence with virtually no benefit
It was the first Chess Olympiad in Hungary since Budapest hosted the 2nd unofficial Chess Olympiad in 1926. ==> I don't see why this is so important to make it into the lead. MOS:LEADREL
A number of national teams ==> why not give the actual number?
Additionally, this was also the first Chess Olympiad in which teams of refugees ==> this info seems better placed a bit earlier on, right after the counts of participating nations
first Chess Olympiad in which teams of refugees were participating in both sections ==> this is ambiguous: did previously only in one section?
India won ==> if you look at for instance FA UEFA Euro 2016 final you see that nation names link to the article about their national team. If an equivalent article for chess exists, you can link there (I couldn't find one for India).
I would expect silver and bronze winners in the lead as well
I would recommend mentioning in the lead the fact that in the Open, India were the only unbeaten team.
Also missing in the lead: 21 out of 22 possible match points was record breaking (it seems it's even missing from the body as well)
Also missing in the lead: 11 rounds
Also missing in the lead: 4 players per round (chess isn't by definition a team sport, so a bit of help to understand the reader how it works is needed)

More soon. Edwininlondon (talk) 14:28, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Edwininlondon: Thanks for your comments. I've taken care of them all.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 14:48, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I see award-winning journalist Leonard Barden has written a review of this event in his Guardian column. Seems an important source. This is what I take from it:

India being 4 points clear in the Open is noteworthy enough to go in the lead
India winning four individual golds is noteworthy enough to go in the lead
Barden calls it a "seminal moment in chess history"
not necessarily in the lead, but it should be mentioned that "For the first time in any Olympiad, no European team reached the podium in either the Open or the Women’s event"
consider using somewhere the gist of this "The Norwegian’s ambition of eliminating one of the few gaps in his career record remains unfulfilled"
consider using Erigasi reaching 3rd on FIDE ranking as a result of his performance
consider using the gist of this "India’s prime minister, Narendra Modi, received the two Indian teams at his residence to congratulate them"
not necessarily in the lead, but it should be mentioned that "Gukesh’s win against China’s Wei Yi has been awarded the Olympiad Best Game prize"
consider using Barden's view of Vishy Anand's role
consider using the gist of this "The result was redemption for the 2022 Olympiad at Chennai, when on home ground India faltered in the final rounds and were passed by Uzbekistan"
consider using the gist of "Nakamura identified Wesley So as a weak link, but the former Filipino, after a shaky start, scored the win against China which ensured silver medals for the US."

I see the article has dropped from the Main page, so should be more stable now. I shall shortly begin my review of the body. Edwininlondon (talk) 11:47, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Next batch of comments:

The Chess Olympiad is a --> link
Chess Olympic Games --> link to 1st unofficial Chess Olympiad
The first official edition of the Chess Olympiad --> link to 1st Chess Olympiad
From then on it has been held biannually --> that typically means twice a year. I would simply say "once every two years"
took place in Emmen --> add the Netherlands
simultaneously with an Open tournament --> consider explaining Open
The bidding procedure for the Chess Olympiad 2024 and the FIDE Congress in connection with bids for the Women's World Cup 2022 and Chess World Cup 2023 was opened in November 2019 --> not sure I can parse this correctly: is this what is meant: "The bidding process for organising both the 45th Chess Olympiad and the coinciding FIDE Congress was opened in November 2019." I would leave the other events out, as it is not very relevant and could cause confusion about those events having to be included in a bid.
4.1, 4.2 and 4.3 pertaining to the organising committee, finances, and --> be consistent in your use of comma before and in lists
There was only one bid to host the Chess Olympiad in Budapest --> Budapest submitted the only bid.
Hungarian political authorities, chess players as well as prominent members of the Olympic movement and the sports administration have expressed their unconditional support to the event. --> This feels too closely paraphrased from the source: "Political authorities, chess legends, and prominent members of the Hungarian Olympic movement and the sports administration have expressed their unconditional support to the event." And the tense (have expressed) should be turned into simple past tense.
and the event originally planned for 2024 in Budapest became the 45th Chess Olympiad --> and the event planned for 2024 in Budapest became the 45th Chess Olympiad instead of the 46th.
signed the contract for the event in Budapest --> ambiguous. I assume it is this: signed the contract in Budapest
a "green" Olympiad with the possibility of transfers between the venues and the hotels with bicycles and electric vehicles as well as by avoiding paper and plastic --> not sure about that "by" at the end, and adding a bit of punctuation would be helpful
The event is supported by the Government of Hungary. --> "The Government of Hungary supported the event." Any info how?
Robert Kapas is --> Robert Kapas was
Ivan Syrovy is --> van Syrovy was
The venue for the event was SYMA Sports and Conference Centre, which served as the central location of the event with functions of playing venue, accreditation center, Expo and fan zone area. --> not a particularly elegant construction. I'm not a much better writer myself, but something along the lines of "The event was held at the SYMA Sports and Conference Centre, which, besides the playing hall, also included an accreditation centre and an exposition and fan zone area.
This facility was built --> I would not make this a new paragraph. Just merge with first sentence.
VIPs were allowed to carry mobile phones in the specially designated VIP areas where the use of mobile phones in silent mode was permitted. --> bit clumsy phrasing + link VIPs
what is missing in this Venue or the Fair Play section is the context: cheating with computers or others. Include link to Cheating in chess
captains --> maybe team captains is clearer
third players --> what are third players?
which might have triggered reactions upon discretion of the FPT --> it's cryptic. But whatever it means, I doubt this level of detail is needed in this article
All games were checked using Kenneth W. Regan's software --> for what? + any source reporting any suspicious games at all?
Only players competing at the Olympiad --> not the captains?
At the beginning, the hosts of the ceremony welcomed attendees --> this level of detail feels unnecessary to me. See what else in this section can be removed. Or maybe I should say, see what can be retained. It is a disproportionally long section.
The event was contested by a total of 197 teams --> the lead says this 197 was in the Open event only, not total of Open and Women combined
was permitted to field three teams --> in each of the two sections
FIDE Women's Chess Commission --> is this a different commission? the first one is FIDE Women's Commission
The Commission --> The commission
The Commission decided to appoint a care-giver for each child as official members of the national delegations. --> not sure I get this. Did the commission really assign some person to care for a child?
this programme --> this pilot project
For the first time at the Chess Olympiads, teams of refugees participated in both sections --> same ambiguity we previously had in the lead
that would represent the team --> they would represent the refugees, not the team. They are the team.
after which an additional 30 minutes were granted and an increment --> better punctuation is needed. Perhaps a semicolon after granted (without the and), if you like semicolons
all teams were paired in every round --> how can that work when there is an odd number of teams?
Tie-breakers for the table --> no hyphen I believe + link to tiebreaker
All dates are CEST (UTC+2:00) --> All times are CEST (UTC+2:00)
The Open event[b] was contested --> rather than here in footnote b, would it not be more logical to move the info about all genders allowed in the Open, move it to the gender equality section?
World no. 2 --> World number 2
Nevertheless, the team, theoretically, was rendered weaker due to the absence of the top-ranked American player and second-highest rated player in the world Hikaru Nakamura --> already mentioned this, so remove
playing on top board followed --> playing on top board, followed
current world no. one --> current world number one
Netherlands --> the Netherlands
The Indian team won the gold in the open event with United States and Uzbekistan winning silver and bronze medals respectively. This was the Indian team's first time winning the gold medal at the Olympiad. --> why is this here and not in the Open summary? That way, you have all the pre-amble together and all the results.

More later, once you have caught up with the above. Edwininlondon (talk) 12:33, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Edwininlondon: I've improved the article in line with your suggestions. I don't think adding Nakamura's comment about So's performance is really necessary. Carlsen's failure to win an individual gold medal seems like navel-gazing, but I still decided to include it in the summary for what it's worth.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 15:12, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm ok with your decisions. All changes look good, except for the bit about Olympiad Best Game prize: The source you have added is just to the game. It needs the Barden source to verify the award. Also, perhaps consider adding that Modi awarded the Indian team players financially, as per Barden's latest column. I'll finish the rest soon. Edwininlondon (talk) 14:49, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've added Barden's source for the game and a sentence on the cash awards.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:08, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Final batch of comments on prose:

The challenger in the World Chess Championship 2024, The challenger in the World Chess Championship 2024, Gukesh Dommaraju of India, achieved --> feels repetitive, as just in the previous paragraph he was introduced as such. Just "Gukesh Dommaraju of India achieved" should suffice
add a link to Gukesh in the caption
individual gold medals were also won --> this needs alittle explanation as normally there is only 1 gold, so maybe add something like "on boards two to four"
bronze medal on board one --> I can see board 1 and board one mixed throughout the article
US vs. USSR radio chess match 1945 --> the radio chess match between the US and the Soviet Union in 1945
Final standings table has Arjun, which should be Erigaisi. And Domínguez should be Domínguez Perez.
On Board 1, the same three competitors received the same medals in back-to-back editions of the Olympiad. --> unsourced
Georgia, whose team won a silver medal at the previous Olympiad, were the second seeds --> odd way of phrasing .. surely George the team was seeded and not Georgia the country
and also includes --> past tense
Ukraine as defending champions --> should mention where they were seeded
Despite the fact that China --> should mention where they were seeded (I'm guessing 4th, but reader should not have to guess). If it is 4th, they should come before Ukraine
as pre-tournament top seeds according to the average rating --> this should be mentioned much earlier
in the tenth rounds --> should that not be singular?
Individual gold medals were also won --> here as well mention boards
the teams with the best combined performance in the Open and Women's tournaments (sum of their positions in both standings). It was won by the first team of India --> we can't have teams plural first and then team singular for the open and women team combined
with an immediate effect. --> I have only heard "with immediate effect", but maybe I'm wrong
Four candidates entered the election --> this bit seems like too much detail. I would just say who were elected
educations --> the source says educators
The winners were announced --> I would cut this whole paragraph on the basis of too much detail
Raul rose to prominence on the music stage in 2011 when he produced a number of songs and video clips in collaboration with Tamás Horváth, while Rose May debuted as a singer-songwriter in the autumn of 2023 and her first album was released the same year. --> cut, digressing
a colourful Rubik's cube --> well, the're colourful by definition
soulful lyrics --> just lyrics
female empowerment and sorority and produced a music short film --> a comma somewhere would help
content chess content creators --> ?
can get an autograph --> could get an autograph
Official partners for the Olympiad include --> Official partners for the Olympiad included
Side events --> having just read about all these side events I was surprised to encounter a section called Side events
intended for general public --> intended for the general public
best U2000 participants --> what is U2000?
he FIDE EDU Preparation of Teachers course --> just checking if this is truly different from the EDU event lised under promotion
with the aim --> repetition of same construct in successive sentences
in the conference include --> past tense
Sanctions against Russia and Belarus --> I don't get why this has to be discussed again, and in such great detail.
that their teams have been --> had been
for Chess Olympiad --> for the Chess Olympiad
a short cut --> a shortcut
detected a SIM card --> add name of person
nother device was detected in the fourth round --> I would name names in this sentence, otherwise it unnecessarily implicates others
of the tenth round in the Open event, --> in the tenth round of the Open event
complained about Israel's participation --> this needs more context (i.e. Israel - Palestine actions)

Apologies for taking so long. Edwininlondon (talk) 20:15, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Edwininlondon: I've implemented your suggestions in the article. According to the Indian naming conventions, it seems like the family name goes first, so it's "Arjun" instead of "Erigaisi" in the same it's "Gukesh" instead of "Dommaraju" (see this source where he's referred to as "Arjun"). I suppose "Domínguez" is preferable as Leinier Domínguez is the article's title. On the sanctions against Russia and Belarus, it's important to give the reader a detailed picture as the Olympiad was overshadowed by the concerns that Russia's full membership would be reinstated and what implications it would have on chess in general.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 07:51, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

But with the Indian names, should we not go with how sources refer to the players? Barden uses "Gukesh and Erigaisi". FIDE uses Erigaisi in headlines. On the other hand, here on chess.com it says he himself prefers Arjun, and it seems chess.com is using that now in headlines. Whatever you decide, it has to be consistent: we now have "Erigaisi's performance earned" and "Gukesh and Erigaisi" but also "Arjun" in the table. Edwininlondon (talk) 08:31, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

After all, it's a minor thing. I've changed it to Erigaisi.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:02, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I Support on prose. Will do a source review soon. Edwininlondon (talk) 16:42, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jens

Make sure that all paragraphs (apart from the lead) have inline citations (not the case in "Fair play regulations")
The section "Kyrgyz proposal to restore full membership" is outdated (the decision has already been made). --Jens Lallensack (talk) 17:20, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Jens Lallensack: Thanks for your comments. I’ve re-arranged the “Fair play regulations” section so that every paragraph is referenced. The decision on the Kyrgyz proposal is mentioned in the “FIDE Congress” section, but it’s good to keep it under “Concerns and controversies” as the proposal was really controversial and raised a lot of concerns that FIDE might lose its affiliation with IOC and that chess federations might lose government funding. I wasn’t sure if the decision should be repeated there. What do you suggest?--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 17:38, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Drive-by comment from Spy-cicle This article seems to imply that territories are their own respective countries which is WP:OR. Entrants like Bermuda, British Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands, Guernsey, Hong Kong, Isle of Man, Jersey, Macau, United States Virgin Islands are not countries. It does in sentences like The ceremony ended with a video tribute to all participating countries, which featured their names and flags shown one after another with songs performed by Kouchak and Vincze in the background. Countries in italics denote those fielding teams in the Open event only. Countries in bold denote those fielding teams in the Women's event only. d it brought together female chess players from 160 countries Among other instances. Could this be fixed? Perhaps with replacing "countries" with "countries and territories" or "team" depending on the sentence. Spy-cicle💥 ^Talk? 21:56, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your comment. It was changed from “countries” to “countries and territories” in The project provided support for preparation of women's teams from nine countries and territories—Liechtenstein, Guernsey, Grenada, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Saint Kitts and Nevis, the United States Virgin Islands, Saint Lucia, Nauru, and the Cayman Islands—who made their debut in the Women's section. I don’t know if it’s necessary to change it everywhere as “country” is the term used by FIDE (see for instance the country rating list). To avoid ambiguity, we can perhaps use “national team” instead of “country”, which is more aligned with the terminology of the IOC for the Olympic Games (they use “National Olympic Committee”).--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 11:14, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The term "national team" seems like a good inbetween without being too wordy. Spy-cicle💥 ^Talk? 22:26, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator note

This has been open for more than three weeks and has yet to pick up a support. Unless it attracts considerable movement towards a consensus to promote over the next three or four days I am afraid that it is liable to be archived. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:30, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

With only one general support after four weeks I am timing this out. There seems to be plenty of feedback to work on before bringing it back. The usual two-week hiatus will apply. Gog the Mild (talk) 15:02, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been archived, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Gog the Mild (talk) 15:02, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.