Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Sikhism
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Sikhism
[edit]- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Just Step Sideways from this world ..... today 23:55, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
- Giani Harpreet Singh (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Sources provide only routine coverage to this individual which is no different than WP:NOTNEWS. Many other Jathedars of Akal Takht also don't have separate articles. Ratnahastin (talk) 16:42, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Sikhism, and Punjab. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 17:41, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
- Retain the page- Most of the jathedar has wikipedia pages and He remained the head of Akal Takht the highest seat of Sikh Community. Wikiravidas (talk) 00:33, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
- The argument "he is certainly notable" does not carry any weight. -The Gnome (talk) 20:04, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. Arguments should focus on policy-based reasons and the quality of the sourcing.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 18:56, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
Keep as the BLP of the subject passes GNG. The nominator should have done a BEFORE. — Mister Banker (talk) 21:33, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
- Mister Banker has been indefinitely blocked for abusing multiple accounts.
- Mister Banker, can you be more specific as to which sources help establish GNG? Thank you. Liz Read! Talk! 23:35, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
@Liz: The subject is a WP:PUBLICFIGURE who is the appointed head of the highest temporal seat of Sikhs and to whom India's second highest category security was granted by the Indian government (The Economic Times, Times Now). He has also received other coverage over the years. See: The Quint, The Quint, NDTV, ABP LIVE, Business Standard — Mister Banker (talk) 12:59, 10 November 2024 (UTC)- All of these are WP:NEWSORGINDIA, therefore not usable for establishing notability. - Ratnahastin (talk) 13:03, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
No, it's not. Have you even read what NEWSORGINDIA says? You need to show how this coverage falls under it. Simply saying it does, just doesn't cut it. — Mister Banker (talk) 17:12, 10 November 2024 (UTC)- Thank you for your response, Mister Banker. Liz Read! Talk! 17:51, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
- Your first two sources only talk about granting Z security to him[1][2] and his refusal, they do not provide any other information about him. The rest of the coverage you are talking about is only due to his controversial statements over the years[3][4], this too is only about the statement he made , this source is only reporting his statement on his wife's arrest at the airport without providing any additional coverage about him, none of these sources have in-depth or significant coverage of his life beyond rudimentary attention to his controversial statements. My rationale still stands, he is only getting occasional news worthy coverage only due to his statements not because he is independently notable. - Ratnahastin (talk) 05:49, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
In short, you have agreed that WP:NEWSORGINDIA doesn't apply here and that he is notable enough that the media seems it worthy to provide coverage to his statements which can be added to the article to let the readers know about his stance on socio-political matters. — Mister Banker (talk) 13:52, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
- All of these are WP:NEWSORGINDIA, therefore not usable for establishing notability. - Ratnahastin (talk) 13:03, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
- Delete Fails WP:GNG. Lorstaking (talk)
- Keep, from the sources it seems to qualify WP:GNG.Also, Akal Takht is the supreme religious authority in Sikhism and we have wikipedia articles for the head and members of such religious authorities.Adamantine123 (talk) 17:21, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
- Arguments such as "there is similar stuff elsewhere in Wikipedia" or "he is just notable, we all know this" are not worth much. -The Gnome (talk) 11:33, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
- Keep, agreed with @Adamantine123. Also there are cited enough reliable sources to support the BLP' article to meet GNG. MSLQr (talk) 19:38, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
- But what are those sources that establish GNG? - Ratnahastin (talk) 05:49, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
- Delete. It's a clearly promotional text, lacking sources that would support the subject's notability. Fails WP:GNG, despite all the chaff. The plethora of SPA's curating it does not help much. -The Gnome (talk) 20:04, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- Delete Had little coverage for controversial statements, but that does not help in establishing GNG. Dympies (talk) 08:30, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
- Keep, same as what Adamantine123 said. In addition it also appears to be decently well sourced. S302921 (talk) 21:10, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
- Once more: Arguments such as "there is similar stuff elsewhere in Wikipedia" or "surely, there are sources" just do not amount to much. -The Gnome (talk) 11:33, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. The keeps above fail to explain how the subject is notable. ArvindPalaskar (talk) 13:03, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. Singh is the primary subject in multiple news stories in national papers in India which span several years. This would seem to meet the WP:SIGCOV guidelines for proving notability through independent significant coverage. Newspaper articles are routinely used to prove WP:GNG at wikipedia; so dismissing newspapers outright as not relevant seems spurious.4meter4 (talk) 16:44, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
- Show the sources. WP:NOTNEWS is very clear on routine coverage. Vague hand waves won't work. - Ratnahastin (talk) 16:59, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. As one participant says here, if this subject is notable, then "show the sources". Making claims of notabiity without highlighting evidence, either existing in the article or brought to this discussion, are empty.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 20:36, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: There are currently 11 sources in this page. I think that's more than good enough for this page. According to the second source on the page he was featured in Hindustan Times. (I would like to apologise for any formatting errors) S302921 (talk) 09:53, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- But none of them address any of the concerns of the nomination. - Ratnahastin (talk) 10:07, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- "Many other Jathedars of Akal Takht also don't have separate articles." is not a good argument. We don't have articles for Every single number. He was referenced in multiple sources listed on the page and his page has plenty of content on it. S302921 (talk) 15:12, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- Please re-check WP:OVERKILL. None of the sources crowding the wavelength address the nomination's concerns. -The Gnome (talk) 11:34, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
- "Many other Jathedars of Akal Takht also don't have separate articles." is not a good argument. We don't have articles for Every single number. He was referenced in multiple sources listed on the page and his page has plenty of content on it. S302921 (talk) 15:12, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- Perhaps you could argue that, but my point still stands. His article has plenty of information available to keep his page. S302921 (talk) 20:32, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
- But none of them address any of the concerns of the nomination. - Ratnahastin (talk) 10:07, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: Nom is right, there is some routine coverage of the subject's appointment as the jathedar of the Akal Takht in Indian media, of the type that the policy requires us to discount. WP:SIGCOV for the subject is missing. MBlaze Lightning (talk) 15:11, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- Keep - Akal Takht is the supreme body of the Sikh religion, and Giani Harpreet Singh represented more than 25 million Sikhs worldwide. He is also a person responsible for imposing religious punishment on former Deputy Chief Minister of Punjab named Sukhbir Singh Badal, and due to this punishment, the deputy chief minister can't participate in any religious or social activity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiravidas (talk • contribs) 01:34, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- Being a Jathedar does not make one notable. - Ratnahastin (talk) 00:36, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: Per NBASIC and PUBLICFIGURE, sources satisfies the requirements for notable status. Furthermore, his appointment as Jathedar of the Akal Takht, a prestigious office in Sikhism, underscores his significance. ®asteem Talk 20:34, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- Did you even read pages you are pointing to? NBASIC clearly states that BLP requires "significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject", not a single source has been provided that does that. WP:PUBLICFIGURE is not even relevant here, it pertains to mentioning well documented allegations in reliable sources if the subject is a public figure as opposed to WP:BLPCRIME which forbids it for non public figures. Being a jathedar does not make one automatically notable. - Ratnahastin (talk) 00:35, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
- Suggestion: We already have enough null & void arguments to last us a year. Could we please stop with the claims that our subject "is surely notable" or that "certainly, sources exist"? It has been registered quite clearly that the subject is well loved. Let's please allow the process to conclude. -The Gnome (talk) 11:34, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
- Delete non-notable Khalistan figure. The above empty indications of notability by "keep" supporters is unconvincing. Nxcrypto Message 06:00, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
- As said above Giani Harpreet Singh represented more than 25 million Sikhs worldwide. He has numerous source on his page to keep it. S302921 (talk) 15:43, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.