Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/BokimBot

The following discussion is an archived debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. The result of the discussion was

Denied.

BokimBot

Operator: Bokim

Automatic or Manually assisted: I run bot in autonomous mode without force.

Programming language(s): Python (pywikipedia)

Source code available: Yes

Function overview: Just interwiki links

Edit period(s): daily

Estimated number of pages affected:

Exclusion compliant (Y/N):

Already has a bot flag (Y/N): No.

Function details:

Discussion

You'll just be using interwiki.py? If so, source code is available. What will your edit period be (I believe pywikipedia uses maxlag = 5 regardless) and is pywikipedia exclusion compliant? I'm thinking it is. — madman bum and angel 20:59, 26 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I use standard pywikipedia, but I have one big problem: My English is bad. :( --Bokim (talk) 04:28, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Do you anticipate this being a problem when you're evaluating interwiki links? It might also make it difficult for you to respond to inquiries concerning your bot. — madman bum and angel 13:48, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That's realy not a problem. I just want adding/fixing interwiki links between sr. and this wiki. That is all. Best regards, --Bokim (talk) 16:35, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If issues arise, then it's your responsibility, as the bot operator, to deal with them. And reply to queries in a clear, prompt, way. Having a bot op who has good communication skills is a must. You admit your English is bad, so do you think you can meet the requirements here? - Kingpin¹³ (talk) 17:14, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please, tell me if you want me to run about 25/50 test edits so that you can check how the bot runs here.--Bokim (talk) 17:54, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Bokim, please be aware that users who run bots must be able to discuss the bot in a manner that is friendly, quick, and relevant. I'm sure you are not doing it purposefully, and it is a result of your poor English, but even in this conversation you are failing to address queries regarding the bot, showing that it could quite clearly become an issue again in the future, should the bot run. If you feel that you are not suited to dealing with such queries, then you should seek another editor who is willing to do so for you (I'd do it myself, only I do not know enough about the bot language, or interwiki links). If you feel that you can manage to deal with such queries, please say so on this page. See Wikipedia:Bot policy#Good communication for more information about how bot operators (and bots) should communicate. Cheers :) - Kingpin¹³ (talk) 19:35, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Users who run interwiki bots typically do speak English as only a second (or third, or more) language (TBH, Bokim is being far more responsive than most). interwiki.py is widely used and rarely has unexpected issues. I believe the only significant known issue is that it doesn't work properly in the template namespace, so bot operators should not run it on templates. interwiki.py bots that already have bot flags on other projects (BokimBot has 8) are typically speedy approved as non-controversial. Mr.Z-man 19:44, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, I don't have concerns if the bot is approved for just standard interwiki.py on non-template pages. Just want Bokim to be aware that if an issue does come up, it needs to be addressed in one way or another (not just sit on a talkpage unaddressed). I guess one way to do so would be for them to post a message to WP:BOTN, so that English bot-ops can be made aware of queries - Kingpin¹³ (talk) 20:00, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree poor English shouldn't be a barrier, considering the nature of wikipedia. Still, the lack of direct response to "can you meet the requirements" is not a good start. I agree with Kingpin13, then, that making sure the bot owner is aware that he/she must deal with issues is important, and that requires a response to the question. Getting a direct response before moving forward with approval would be more in line with community requirements. That's my opinion on this bot, it seems that others are dealing with these issues already. --69.226.103.13 (talk) 17:54, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

{{OperatorAssistanceNeeded|D}} – Bokim, please acknowledge the concerns that have been raised in this discussion; otherwise I intend to deny this task. Per the bot policy, good communication is a condition of operation of bots in general. — madman bum and angel 23:00, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see why we're treating this so different from other interwiki bot requests. Requests like this are usually speedy approved due to the operator's experience on other projects and the proven reliability of interwiki.py. Mr.Z-man 01:47, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see any reason for not speedy approving, after the bot operator acknowledges the concerns. But going ahead with speedy approval when the bot operator ignores a simple request to acknowledge a concern seems, to me, like pushing the bot on the operator. Maybe the operator changed his/her mind about running the bot. A simple response is not too much to ask, is it? --68.127.233.138 (talk) 04:44, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That does not answer my question as to why we're treating this request so differently from typical interwiki bot requests (despite it being a typical interwiki bot). Most interwiki bot operators do not speak perfect English nor is the English Wikipedia their main project. It is unrealistic to hold them to the same standards that we hold users for whom this is their home project. Its also unnecessary; most interwiki bots all use the same well-developed bot script, leading to an extremely low error rate. Mr.Z-man 05:11, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think they should be held to any high standard for English. I said this in my post, that poor English should not be a barrier. So, I'm not trying to hold them to the same standards I would want for a native speaker of English. I don't think native language skills are needed. So, to me it does not seem like this user is being held to any higher standard. I can't go by how you treat all other requests, and I don't see the point to it. This task itself looks straight-forward. None of that deals with the bot owner being asked a direct question and ignoring it. --68.127.233.138 (talk) 06:21, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

When I said that my English is bad I thought it was on the level 2 ({{babel|en-2}}). I don't speak English perfectly, and you cannot expect something like that from every contributor on this wiki. One more time: please, let me know if you want me to run some test edits. Kindly, Bokim (talk) 09:24, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

My concern was not the bot operator's English but his responsiveness to inquiries. The response to whether or not he could meet the requirements of the bot policy was "Do you want to approve this task for trial?" This is not an appropriate response to a bot-related inquiry, and our considering responsiveness to bot-related inquiries to be of the utmost importance is both per the bot policy and per common sense. Bokim, I'm going to repeat Kingpin13's question. Have you reviewed the bot policy and will comply, especially with Wikipedia:Bot policy#Good communication? Thanks, — madman bum and angel 18:09, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Could you talk with me at simple English (I don't understand everything that you wrote)? Thanks, Bokim (talk) 20:22, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Basically, here at the English Wikipedia, users who run bots are required to make sure that all comments about the bot are replied to. Do you think that you can make sure that all comments about BokimBot are replied to, if not by yourself, then another user? - Kingpin¹³ (talk) 21:40, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Will you answer questions about your bot? Can you make sure someone answers questions about BokimBot on BokimBot's talk page? You can answer the questions. You can ask someone else to answer the questions. I don't expect you to speak English perfectly. If you can answer questions OR if you can get someone else to answer questions, it doesn't matter if you speak English perfectly. How do you plan to answer questions if your bot has problems? --68.127.233.138 (talk) 04:33, 2 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

{{OperatorAssistanceNeeded}} Please answer the above questions: Do you think that you can make sure that all comments about BokimBot are replied to? - Kingpin¹³ (talk) 22:23, 8 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Denied. – I think it has been adequately demonstrated that the operator will not satisfactorily respond to bot-related inquiries. The operator has been asked at least four times whether he even understands the bot policy and whether he will adhere to the policy. Not one of those times was the question answered or even addressed. Normally this bot task would be expired; however, my judgment of the consensus of this discussion is that this task should be denied. We have other interwiki bot operators; we also now have global interwiki bot operators. Automated editing is never foolproof, however close to foolproof interwiki.py may be, and that's the very reason for the bot policy. The Bot Approvals Group simply cannot afford to approve that an account be flagged for automated editing when there's ample evidence that the operator will not adhere to said policy. — madman bum and angel 04:19, 18 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]