Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/Ale jrb bot/old

The following discussion is an archived debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

User:Ale_jrb_bot

Owner	User:Ale_jrb
Function	Welcoming new users to Wikipedia by posting a message on their talk page. More information can be found on the user page.
Language	English
Program	Custom program, interacts with Wikipedia through the browser.
Mode	Starts manually, edits automatically - occasionally checked, but can be shutdown by anyone.
Frequency	Whenever I get around to running it - there are always new users. Most evenings, I should guess, GMT time.

As per consensus, this bot has been withdrawn and can be removed from the list.

The Background

When I created my first bot, it was a hobby project - just to see if I could. It has been a while since my first one, and in the time between then and now, I have become quite a dedicated Wikipedia user and editor. The bot that I am proposing will, in my opinion, make Wikipedia a more friendsly place to be, may encourage more users to edit, and in the long run should help Wikipedia to become a better palce than it is now. That is, after all, the point of a collaborative encyclopedia.

When I first joined, Wikipedia seemed big and confusing. I am all for signing up, so I actually signed up to the Wikipedia to make an edit in an article I liked the look of and knew a bit about. This meant that, as of my sign-up date, I had not yet edited Wikipedia. For a new user, in my opinion, Wikipedia is a large and confusing place to be. I personally am still learning now, having been around for a couple of months and made almost a thousands edits of various pages, so when I first joined, I will be honest: I was a bit lost.

I found the article I had wanted to edit reasonably quickly. I clicked the "Edit this page" button - something I had not done before - and was displayed with a nice big page of Wiki markup. Knowing truthfully near to nothing about how Wikipedia worked, and then seeing a page of some advanced markup - tables and all the rest of it - I took a step back and decided to do some research. Remember that I had still not made an edit, and as such was not on the 'Wiki-radar'. It took some time to track down even a small amount of information about how to edit - and it was aimed at beginners. This was great! However, it didn't help much as I wasn't trying to do much - I was trying to find out how to add something to a table, not learn how to bold things and so on. It took a long time more before I felt able to edit my article.

I did so. All was well, and making use of a huge amount of trial and error, reading the markup from other pages, and making a great use of the "Preview" button, I managed to make my edit, which was of a reasonable size. The next day, when I logged on, I was greeted by the "You have new messages" message. Lo and behold, I had got a welcome message. This was great! It allowed nice quick access to the most useful policies, help files and all the rest of it. It was great - I learnt quickly, using it as quite a major resource, and I got to where I am today.

Behind the Bot

Now everyone has read my nice history of me, I get to why I feel quite strongly about my bot, or at least - the idea and drive behind it.

For me personally, the Welcome message was great. It allows nice quick access to everything a new user would need - after all, that is why it was designed. Even if a user doesn't intend to make large edits, and only needs simple stuff that they can find by trial and error, the short time taken to say 'Hello - you're welcome here, have a great time!' makes everyone feel good, even if they refuse to admit it. This is all well and good - and why the welcome template exists. However, now I get on to what I think is the problem with the system.

In general, I think it is agreed that users kind of require an edit or two before they get welcomed. This seems to be for two reasons - it puts them on the 'Wiki-radar' and lets people know they are here, and if they turn out to be a vandal - it saves time and effort on the part of the welcomer. I disagree strongly with this idea.

I believe that a user should be welcomed the moment they create their account. This makes them feel like someone is looking after them. The point of the welcome message is to say 'Hello!' and to give reference links to the help files and so on. In fact, being welcomed may even prompt them to edit! Even if they do turn out to be a vandal, if the welcomer is a bot, this does not waste any 'effort' as such.

Now, I have made a table of some arguments or points that people may disagree on, and I have said why I think this shouldn't/doesn't matter or isn't important.

Disagreement	Resolution
A bot is less personal than a person. This defeats the point of welcoming them, doesn't it?	I do not think so as such, no. Firstly, it is highly possible they won't even realise they are being welcomed by a bot, unless the bot is set to sign its welcomes. This could be done, so a not to try and hide the fact, but still think it would help. Surely any message is better than none, where a user will feel lonely, confused and left out? Even if they ignore the welcomeness from the message, it still provides good links for the user to use.
A bot like that would never be able to welcome everyone as if it tried, it would be to much of a server hog. What's the point then?	It is better to welcome some users, than ignore them all.
Some users like to go around welcoming users. You'd be stopping them from doing what they want to do.	As I said earlier, the bot would not welcome everyone as if it were set to, it would use up quite a few resources. This would leave users that other people are welcome to welcome. Even if it were set to welcome everyone, it would not be running all the time and this in turn would leave users to welcome. Even if it were running all the time, and welcoming every single account created, people could still leave a Hello note or even a different welcome temaplte. There is nothing to stop them.
What happens if the bot goes haywire and wastes resources by welcoming all users 50 times in a few seconds. It is a menace I tell you!	Heh heh! Although this even is very close to impossible, there are plenty of safeguards in place. The bot is emergency shutoff compliant, as well as being able to be shut down by any normal user as well. It wouldn't happen, and if it did, it could be stopped.
Users that haven't helped Wikipedia don't deserve to be welcomed! It would be a total waste!	How could anyone say that? Just because they haven't made an edit doesn't mean they are not a person. Even if they never make an edit, you could save a person from depression simply by saying they are welcome somewhere. You never know what the results of your actions could be - it is always better to try.
If it is going to be automated at all, why not let the wikipedia syustem do it?	The software running the encyclopeida, and a bot, are two very different things. A automated message added by the Wikipedia software seems the least personal of all. A bot is less personal than a person, but slightly better. Even if the software added to the talkpage of the new user, as another user, it would not be hard for the person to figure out it is the software doing it. Also, for a bot, it is clear someone independant has gone to the trouble of writing and running it - this makes it yet more personal that an auto-message as such. Furthermore, as some users will not be welcomed by the bot running at a reasonable speed, it makes the users it does welcome feel even more special than they would normally, even before they have made the giant leap into editing. For those that are 'left out' by the bot, thy can be welcomed after their first edit as people are now, or welcomed by other users. Even if they don't get welcomed at all, some users and better than no users.

Onwards!

That about concludes my points. I am fully open to all suggestions, and look forward to hearing people's comments, criticisms and suggestions. Feel free to post on this page, which I regularly check, or post a message on my talk page. More information about the bot itself can be found on its user page or you can ask questions on its talk page to.

Note that you can access this page, or discuss further, on or from the Wikipedia:Village_pump (proposals) page and the Wikipedia talk:Welcome, newcomers page.

Thanks very much for reading. Regards to all, Ale_Jrb^talk 19:18, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

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This bot would need wider community support, possibly discuss at Wikipedia:Village pump. If I remember correctly, automated welcoming of users has not been a popular idea. Martin 19:32, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

OK then - it was just a project to see if it worked, and I thought I might as well see if it was wanted. As it is not, I guess should I remove it? Thanks. Ale_Jrb^talk 19:43, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Also, if I were to discuss this, or at least ask about it, which section of the Village Pump would it go under. I have never found a policy that regards welcoming, but nor is it really a proposal - I am not suggesting everyone should do something, so where would it go? Thanks. Ale_Jrb^talk 19:56, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

You could try on Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals), I would also put some pointers to the main discussion (maybe this discussion) on Wikipedia talk:Welcome, newcomers for example. Though I think this suggestion was unpopular previously, things may have changed, it's always worth seeing what current consensus is. Martin 21:16, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your thoughts, you were totally corret, but I thought I might as well have a go anyway. Until another time, Ale_Jrb^talk 21:46, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

I'd rather have user greet new users. They alrady use standardized templates, this would only make it more cold and less meaningful. IMO, I don't really think its that great of a way to greet people.Voice-of-All 03:03, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

• OPERATOR WITHDRAWN — xaosflux ^Talk 03:29, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.