Wikipedia:Africa-related regional notice board/Peer review/Chad

Chad

I've been intensively behind this country article since April 19, attempting to provide a good, or at least decent, article. I've (and I hope Brian won't take offence of this ;-)) used as a model the Cameroon FA; I've done my best to be concise (which is not generally one of my best qualities), but mostly I'm worried that the English may not be fluid enough. The last section (culture) is a bit too brief, but I must admit I'm having considerable difficulties finding reliable sources here.--Aldux 00:05, 24 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Brian's review

Wow! Very impressive work from Aldux has transformed this page over the past couple months. I went ahead and did an initial copy edit (mostly removing redundant language and clarifying points); I'll try to make another pass as the piece progresses. I also removed a bunch of links that I felt were not particularly relevant to the piece. For example, it's doubtful someone will gain much more understanding of Chad by clicking a link to the Netherlands. Here are the issues that I think remain:

Copy editing, especially in the use of Commonwealth vs. American English and in the use of the serial comma. I tried to change all regional English to Commonwealth, but I'm not sure which is preferable here since English isn't a major language in Chad. If necessary, we can check the revision history and change to the variety used by the earliest contributor. I'll try to do more work on this front unless Aldux gets there first.
- Just FYI, the earliest major revision uses American English. It seems to be a text dump from the CIA, though, so I'm not sure it counts. — Brian (talk) 01:13, 31 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - Fully agree with your opting for Commonwealth English: while, as you noted, English isn't a major language here, Commonwealth English should be generally preferred for the Continent.--Aldux 11:31, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There should be no need for footnotes/references in the lead section of the article. Be sure that all information in the lead is repeated in the article body and cite it there. For example, I don't think the stuff about Lake Chad being Chad's biggest lake and Africa's second largest is repeated in the body.
- Done: the references are now in the geography section.--Aldux 12:03, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
~~One instance of weasel words remains: ". . . it has been argued that . . . " Please reword this to say exaclty who argues this.~~
- Should have mended this.--Aldux 15:58, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There was a lot of history about the administrative subdivisions in that section. I tried to reword things to emphasize how the country is subdivided now, but I may have deleted too much. Take a look.
- Ah, fault of my historical forma mentis. I've read the new elaboration, and haven't found anything to object.--Aldux 15:58, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
~~All metric measurements should be accompanied by the equivalent in Imperial units and vice versa.~~
- Done.--Aldux 15:58, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Be sure to insert a non-breaking space between all numbers and units of measurement.
Can we get specific months for the wet season and dry season?
- This is, unfortunately, simply impossible: the range of variations between the extreme south and the north are enormous, with a wet season ranging from a few days to many months.--Aldux 15:58, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - Ah, understood. The same happens in Cameroon, so I should have expected this. — Brian (talk) 00:52, 7 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion of Chad's row with the World Bank over development money smacks of recentism. It would probably be better to boil the dispute down to a few lines at most.
- Hmm... I'm not sore I fully agree here. I've cut down a bit, but I remain of the opinion that the rupture is an event of great importance for Chadian history and for its future relations with international organizations.--Aldux 15:58, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - Well, you know more about it than I. I faced a similar problem with Cameroon's treatment of the Bakassi dispute with Nigeria; the issue has dominated (non-football) headlines on Cameroon for the past year or so, but it's hard to judge how important the events are in comparison to things like Fulani jihads or French colonialism. It's a tough balancing act. — Brian (talk) 00:52, 7 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure I'm comfortable with listing ethnic groups in phrases such as "In the Sahel sedentary peoples, such as the Barma, Kotoko, Kanembu and Bilala, live side-by-side with nomadic ones, such as the Arabs, Daza and Kreda." I tried to avoid this in Cameroon for fear that members of other ethnic groups who edit Wikipedia might insist that their group be listed too. I tried to only mention a group by name if there was another reason to do so (such as Chad's assertion that the Sara are the most numerous group). But that's just my opinion, of course.
- While I must admit I doubt I'll see many hordes of Chadian editors running to correct this article ;-), I see your point. I've kept the mention of three ethnic groups, as the three most relevant in the respective geographic areas.--Aldux 15:58, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
~~Make sure the information in the infobox matches the data quoted in the article.~~
- Done.--Aldux 17:10, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
~~Make sure only the first instance of a term is wikilinked and delink the rest (excluding the infobox, lead, and images).~~
- Done.--Aldux 17:10, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
~~Make sure links go where they're supposed to, not to redirects or disambiguation pages.~~
- Should be ok.--Aldux 17:10, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
And perhaps the largest problem: The "Culture" section is way too short! I know you said you're having a problem with this part, but this section cannot be comprehensive until it covers at least most of the topics of Chad's literature, film, cuisine, dress, dance, music, and sport. Further sources might be found at Google Books (do a search for each bit, such as Sport in Chad or somesuch). I know that there is a historical dictionary of Chad that can be had used for about $30. The volume from this series on Cameroon was invaluable in writing the Cameroon article.This book, while seemingly aimed at children, might also be of help.
- While I absolutely agree that the Historical dictionaries are grand, it may be that the scope of Decalo's Historical dictionary of Chad is a bit different from that of the Historical dictionary of Cameroon. This is a book that I've already started using and will use a lot, because without it it would be impossible to move myself in the jungle of rebel and pre-independence factions and leaders; but you won't find anything that can help to fill the culture section there, this is mostly a book of political history. As for the Amazon book, it's a bit too costly and and I'm reluctant to buy a book I would only rarely use. What I mostly miss is a general panoramic, even if I found something good on the Toubous, and more important, this from a Chadian magazine, Tchad et Culture, that has published a dossier titled "L' industrie artistique au Tchad: un trésor mal exploité". Unfortunataly traditional culture is not covered, and I haven't found much on sport.--Aldux 17:38, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - Glad to see the section has beefed up. I think it's adequate now, though it would still be nice to expand it more with information on Chadian writers or filmmakers, and traditional crafts. I guess my recommendation would be to keep looking for more sources, which I'm sure you're already doing. — Brian (talk) 00:52, 7 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    - Actually, I hadn't completely finished the section, and what's missing is exactly, as you guessed, a section on writers and cinema. These should be helpful [1],[2].--Aldux 13:10, 7 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      - Finished with Culture now, after inserting some info on cinema; generally all the article should be now, for what regards the content side, more or less complete.--Aldux 22:15, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The stuff on education should probably be moved to the government section. Education is in the national control and is not really an element of culture as Wikipedia country articles define the concept.
- Done.--Aldux 17:40, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There are some good images in the article, but there are also some duds. It would be nice if a better image of Déby could be found, and the picture of the Sara girl is kind of boring; she could be a girl at a disco in any country from Senegal to South Africa. Yesterday, I culled public-domain image resources and uloaded a ton of pictures to Wikimedia Commons; see if anything looks promising.
- Oh God! When you said you had uploaded a certain number of images I hadn't exactly understood how many... To say I'm impressed would be a gross understatement, I'm still gasping, I really don't know how to thank you. As for the two main problems, il try to replace them with the new images.--Aldux 21:13, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - He he; well, I had some free time over the weekend and was curious about our Wikipedia:Public domain image resources page. It was actually quite useful for both Chad and Cameroon (the problem with the former being that searches also bring up lots of irrelevant photos of guys named Chad . . . .). Flickr's also got some great freely licensed images (though I've uploaded most of the ones I found for Chad). — Brian (talk) 00:52, 7 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    - Ah, don't speak me of the Chad name story; it's been a constant source of irritation turning in many searchs with all these Chad buddies... As you have some experience with uploading images, do you thing that the images from Chad: a country study. The text is certainly public domain, but I'm not sure regarding the images, that can be useful for several articles: a Sao bracelet; map of Sahelian empires; photo of Faya; monument to Leclerc and Gentil; Tombalbaye in a parade; Fountain in N'Djamena; a mud hut; Daza people; ethno-linguistic map; young woman in the Chari-Baguirmi; Quranic school; N'Djamena cathedral; primary school; typical Chadian village; livestock market; cotton being unloaded; irrigation farming; a ferry over the Chari; trucks; a tailor; PPT headquarters; troops in 1970; effects of the civil war; Habré; delivery of weapons; Foreign Legion fort; military parade; anti-tank instructions; Presidential Guard officers; Tibesti PoW. These images should all be public domain, as they are repeated in other websites, but I would like to have some assurance. Ciao,--Aldux 13:10, 7 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      - Cool; I'll check for any copyright info in that document, but it would seem those images should be PD. I may have some time this weekend to tackle the situation. :) — Brian (talk) 22:32, 7 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      - Hmm. The Library of Congress study includes this note: "Finally, the authors acknowledge the generosity of the many individuals and public and private agencies who allowed their photographs to be used in this study. They are indebted especially to those who contributed original work not previously published." This would seem to imply that these photos were not necessarily taken by U.S. government employees, and that we can't use them without some further indication. :( — Brian (talk) 08:36, 10 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think this article has taken great strides. With a bit more tender, loving care, I think it will have a good shot at achieiving Featured Article status. Let me know if I can help further. — Brian (talk) 08:12, 30 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

One additional problem I noted is that the last two footnotes (the ones that reference the Canadian PDF paper) are external jumps. I'd rather see the paper fully cited with author, date, title, publisher, ISBN, etc. The external jump can be embedded with the title. — Brian (talk) 00:52, 7 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I copy edited the piece one more time. This involved combining or splitting a few paragraphs, so sorry that the changes aren't all that evident by comparing the pre- and post-copy-edit versions. I noticed one final problem: There are several mm rainfall measurements given in the "Geography" section that have no Imperial equivalents. Likewise, there are some parts of that section that use Imperial first and convert to metric rather than the reverse as it should. Once this is fixed, I think the article will be ready for FAC! — Brian (talk) 12:55, 12 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]