Jump to content

User talk:Zepppep/Archive 3

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Archive 1Archive 2Archive 3

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Mike Baxter (baseball), you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page United State (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 12:33, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

GA Thanks

On behalf of WP:CHICAGO, I would like to thank you for your editorial efforts that has contributed to the recent WP:GA promotion of Larry Doby

This user helped promote Larry Doby to good article status.

--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:15, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Brian McCann

Greetings. Your recent edit of Brian McCann accidentally wiped out the article photo. I reverted it. Regards. Tapered (talk) 08:52, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Jim Thome

I believe I've done most of what you suggested in your PR of Jim Thome. Would you mind taking another look? Go Phightins! (talk) 21:42, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

There are still some of the issues remaining (lead, first stint with CLE, etc.). I've highlighted some new ones. When you believe you've addressed the item, would you check it off line-by-line or one big "OK" at the end of the post if all have been addressed? Thanks for letting me know! Zepppep (talk) 03:45, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
I have added the  Done  Doing...  Fixed templates line-by-line where applicable. Go Phightins! 20:58, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
I believe I've at least partially addressed almost all of your suggestions. Go Phightins! 22:00, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I noticed it's coming along. CLE section still links pretty thin for the yrs he spent there, especially his first stint. I put the expand tag up a few days ago trying to draw any help from passers-by. Zepppep (talk) 22:09, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, I've been looking for additional information, but there's pretty slim pickings as far as coverage from 10 years ago. Go Phightins! 23:25, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
That's another reason I put up the tag, so you can get some assistance from others who may be able to dig up some sources. I've helped write articles about players who died before Thome was born so sources from before 10 years ago are definitely out there. There's no deadline here so there's no major rush. Zepppep (talk) 23:33, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
I understand it's out there, but it's harder to find...I guess I misspoke when I said slim pickings, I meant it's harder to find. I'm working on it...I do have some baseball encyclopedias that may have information. I know, there's no deadline, but bringing it up to GA is a goal I have. Go Phightins! 23:35, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Removing a "what if" list from the Major League Baseball Wild Card Game article

How exactly is putting the actual two best non-divisional teams (most people likely don't know who were the runner ups in the Wild Card prior to 2012 and clearly only pertains to the 1995 onward era) in a one-game playoff prior to the implementation of the MLB Wild Card Game a true "what if" scenario!? You really seem to be thinking way beyond or ahead of another wise basic scenario (like thinking about how differently a manager would operate and what not). A what if scenario would be which team would have a better chance of winning, thus altering the playoff outlook (and possibly even further than that). Another actual what if scenario would be speculating how the cancelled 1994 season would've ended if it weren't for the strike. And using Lou Gerhig as an analogy doesn't make sense because that has nothing to due w/ using a final statistic (we can at that rate, go on all day about how much differently a player's career might have turned out had they not gotten injured), like end of season records as a main point of reference. BornonJune8 (talk) 07:09 p.m., 22 October 2012 (UTC)

I didn't write the Gehrig example, so not sure why you're coming here with that. What your proposing is speculation and extrapolation about past events. Articles that present original research in the form of extrapolation, speculation, and "future history" are inappropriate per WP:Crystal ball. Do you have any sources which support what you state? Haven't seen any thus far. The way a team handles pressure, the way a manager handles a starting rotation or bullpen, the decision by slightly injured player to play or not...these are all things that would impact a previous wild care race years ago that is not reflected in the final standings. We can't simply look at past standings and say "this team would've made it using today's playoff scenario." Additionally, I question the notability of it all. People don't need to be given the idea something happened in the past that never did. For decades, only pennant winners went the playoffs; we're not going to start going around to articles and saying "this team would've gone to the playoffs because their final record would've allowed for such" because we simply don't know if the game would've been played the same using today's rules and scenarios. Zepppep (talk) 08:44, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

unreferenced means no references, not no correctly formatted inline citations

Hi there, I see that you've recently tagged a few baseball players with {{BLP unreferenced}}. This is only meant to be used where there are no links or refs to support any of the info. For articles with references that are incorrectly formated or listed in an External links section, then {{BLP sources}} and {{No footnotes}} are more informative as to what needs to be done. Of course the external link must be specific to the person, not just to his team/school etc, but generally the stats sites are able to confirm some of the info so should be marked as needing more and no footnotes. Cheers, The-Pope (talk) 12:16, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Boy, I'd need a few examples as I made season-ending edits to about 1,200+ articles during that short 3-week span. I remember utilizing {{Unreferenced}}. Zepppep (talk) 20:47, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Zepppep. You have new messages at Talk:Jim Thome/GA1.
Message added 15:44, 27 October 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Go Phightins! 15:44, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

As the reviewer, I will most certainly be checking the review page for updates. Zepppep (talk) 17:24, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Kenny Lofton, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Sun Journal (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 11:21, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Zepppep. You have new messages at Talk:Jim Thome/GA1.
Message added 19:18, 30 October 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Go Phightins! 19:18, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Jane Speed (unseen edits?)

Long time, Mr. Z. Please forgive me if this is old news 2U (never exactly sure who's alerted to what actions on WP), but, long story short, I posted a pretty massive re-edit on JS a couple of days ago (the edit, that is, not the length of the resulting version), which, it seems, was seen by one person only - alas, the ubiquitous Author-Author, who, typically, rather than comment on any of the new material (heavily documented and, whether sufficient or not, clearly relevant to notability), chose to 'critique' a completely irrelevant transitional sentence already present in the original. And now the article is deleted. Fortunately (due to my increasingly sputtering Mac), during each edit, I save my work to email numerous times, so it was easy enough to recreate my latest draft on my talk page, which is exactly what I've done. It's parked there right now, and I'd deeply appreciate u giving it a look. Don't know if it would lead to a different outcome, but it is a seriously different document than the one voted on by u & others several days ago and I'd very much value your feedback. DavidESpeed (talk) 04:38, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Hello there. Article's can't be deleted due to what other editors might label "poor" writing. They can, however, if they fail notability or there are serious COI concerns. Seeing as the article now exists on your talk page, I really don't feel my comments are relevant since a user is pretty much given carte blanche as to what they'd like to post on their own talk page. If you believe the article meets the criteria for being kept, you may need to hash out your argument. It seems it was nominated for AfD and the result was to delete the article. Zepppep (talk) 00:56, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

November 2012

Thank you for making a report on Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism. Reporting and removing vandalism is vital to the functioning of Wikipedia and all users are encouraged to revert, warn, and report vandalism. However, it appears that the editor you reported may not have engaged in vandalism, or the user was not sufficiently or appropriately warned. Please note there is a difference between vandalism and unhelpful or misguided edits made in good faith. If the user continues to vandalise after a recent final warning, please re-report it. Also the edits have to be recent, you issued two warnings for edits made over a year ago. Thank you. 5 albert square (talk) 23:47, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

I understand you may have put this boilerplate FYI up with good intentions in mind. Thank you. On the other hand, if you think one of the two edits which was reverted (and which I did not revert, but warned the user after seeing this edit) was a misguided edit made in good faith, I guess that's your opinion. Changing an article subject's last name to "Hangover", labeling a player a "bat boy," and a bunch of "?" marks for a number is not vandalism, that would be a unique opinion. True, the user had last been warned in 2011 but I thought considering the type of vandalism which occurred, it was worthy of something a bit more stern. A 31-hour block might go a long way, especially since it appears to be a shared IP and may encourage the "good user" to create his/her own account. Zepppep (talk) 00:52, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
I didn't say that was a good edit that the IP made - it wasn't. What I was basically saying is that the user hadn't been warned correctly. They have to have 4 warnings for recent vandalism before AIV can do anything, by 'recent' I mean that the vandalism must be a maximum of 48 hours old. On occasion they can be given a final warning on the first offence but only if it is severe. If they edit again after the final warning then AIV can look into the edits. I've looked at that IP and they haven't edited since your final warning. The edits before that, being over a year old, are too stale for AIV to consider now, and if it's a shared IP then the chances are it wasn't the same person making those edits. There's no way that any of us admins would be able to consider a block for that IP at this stage. If we were to block every editor that made one bad edit every year or so, we'd have virtually nobody editing the encyclopedia. In all honesty, if I had come across that edit I would actually have started the warning process from scratch again - with a level 1 warning for vandalism.--5 albert square (talk) 01:34, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
This sentence led me to believe otherwise: Please note there is a difference between vandalism and unhelpful or misguided edits made in good faith. Thank you for clarifying your position, however. I'm fine if you decided not to block the IP—it's not a huge deal for me one way or the other. Again, I didn't do the reverting but wish the editors who had would've sufficiently warned the user. I have probably notified at least 40 users or so to that noticeboard and I would guestimate 90% or so of them have, as a result of bringing it to the NB, been blocked. I would probably agree with a level 1 warning; however, it was a bit more than tomfoolery and seeing that the IP had been warned 2x before, I decided to go for a stronger warning. I also decided to employ the sharedIP info box based upon the editor(s) behavior. OK, thanks for explaining your position. I've already spent more time on this than I'd probably like (you probably concur) and if there is a rejection reason, I typically will check the NB rather than having the result be posted to my talk page. But thanks for your time and your explanation of your decision. Zepppep (talk) 01:47, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Bryce Harper

Thanks for your improvements to the refs for this article, but I don't see what they have to do with me. In a couple of case I changed publisher=newspaper to work=newspaper. There were other similar improvements I could have made but didn't notice, but at no point did I add a publisher parameter. And I don't see the benefit in cases like the Washington Post or Baseball-Reference.com. Knowing the publisher doesn't help anyone who's tracking down the reference, and in any case it's readily available from the publication's article. The guidelines for using the cite templates recommend omitting publisher for well-known periodicals (See here). (And BTW, the New York Times Company is the owner of the NYT; Arthur Ochs Sulzberger, Jr. is the publisher.) Colonies Chris (talk) 17:09, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

I saw your edit summary where publisher was removed. Probably the editor who made the ref cited it incorrectly. It's no big deal. Template:Cite news states "publisher" can be included. While I personally don't typically go through the trouble to add publisher info for newspapers, they certainly can be added to an article without issue. And no worries for the publisher. I'm aware we would include the company, not the actual "person. Zepppep (talk) 17:25, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
This whole question of adding or removing items such as publisher and location is highly controversial (see the recent long discussion here). In that discussion, I was trying to get agreement that removing superfluous 'publisher' and 'location' parameters (which Template:Cite news#publisher actually recommends omitting) would be acceptable. However, my view did not prevail. There was a strong feeling that any change to such parameters constitutes a change of style, violating WP:CITEVAR, which is unacceptable without prior discussion on the article's talk page. My edits to Bryce Harper were not removing publisher, they were attaching the publication name, Washington Post, to the correct template parameter, 'work' (or equivalently, 'newspaper') instead of the wrong one, 'publisher'. Your subsequent addition of 'publisher=Washington Post Company' constitutes an unacceptable style change, and must therefore be removed pending discussion and agreement on the talk page. (As for the NYT, it doesn't matter whether we specify the company or the person because neither is useful - they should both be omitted). Colonies Chris (talk) 18:43, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
I guess I misunderstood your edit summary. Rather than getting rid of publisher, I decided to add the corresponding details to make the "publisher" portion correct. Secondly, I completely added "newspaper=The Washington Post", instead of simply how the article appeared before your fixes. As I stated, normally I don't add publisher details for a newspaper, as you can also see, such a position is encouraged on Template:Cite news. It'd be great if the edit was not reverted, as I fixed a lot of other references to that article with that same edit. What I added (publisher details" may not be required or necessarily commonplace, but it's not prohibited. Lastly, the name of the newspaper is "The Washington Post," not "Washington Post." I've read "The" needs to be included for publication names, but seeing as you engage in talk forums re: references, you probably already knew that. Zepppep (talk) 20:21, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
I don't see any reason to revert your entire edit, which was mostly very helpful. It's just the addition of publisher to WashPo, USA Today, ESPN.com, etc. that's an issue. And I agree that 'The' should be part of the name, to match the title of that newspaper's article. (The same applies to The New York Times, but not, for example, to the San Francisco Chronicle, for reasons that the editors of each of those articles have thrashed out between themselves, I presume.) Colonies Chris (talk) 23:08, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
My guess is it wouldn't be due to editors' opinions, but rather "the" is not a part of the name for the Chronicle, but is a part of the formal name of WaPo, for example. Zepppep (talk) 00:24, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Addie Joss, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Western League and One-hitter (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 11:32, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

College football edit notice

I don't have any experience with creating edit notices, but if memory serves, you have worked on one for the baseball project in the past. I would like to make an edit notice for the college football coaches reminding IP's that update the win–loss record to update it both in the infobox and in the record table. There have been several times, the most recent being on Frank Solich, where an IP only updated part of the info that needed to be updated. I'd appreciate any help you could provide here. AutomaticStrikeout 17:16, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) WP:EDN states that only administrators can create edit notices for pages in mainspace. Go Phightins! 20:18, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
Oh. Well in that case, never mind Zepppep. Unless, of course, you feel like running for adminship ! AutomaticStrikeout 20:52, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
That would potentially be a lot of edit notices, considering how many CFB coaches there are. Might suggest going to Wikipedia:WikiProject College football, however. Zepppep (talk) 19:29, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
I did. AutomaticStrikeout (T • C) 06:24, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Thome

Thanks for your help in the GA review of Jim Thome; your feedback has been invaluable to the article's development. I was wondering if you had any further suggestions for the article...I believe I've addressed in some fashion all of your queries thus far and hadn't seen anything new in the last few days. There's no rush, but I just wanted to see what else needed to be done. Thanks--Go Phightins! 18:33, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Will certainly be taking a look. The review started nearly one month ago. I'm certainly hoping it will be finished before the 27th but time will tell, I 'spose. Zepppep (talk) 00:57, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
There were more issues than I was expecting, but I certainly can't fault you for lack of thoroughness . Take your time. Go Phightins! 17:00, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Jeff Heath fyi

If there's confusion about Heath's birth year, this image of his headstone should put it to rest. A headstone is a pretty reliable source for someone's age -- probably better than a UPI article! --Batard0 (talk) 18:27, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Zepppep. You have new messages at Talk:Kenny Lofton/GA1.
Message added 04:42, 2 December 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Go Phightins! 04:42, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Mike Garcia

Just checking in on this; it has now been open a week. If you are still planning to work on it, I've no problem keeping it open for at least another week. It's pretty close to GA now; several of my points strictly speaking do not concern the GA criteria, and how much attention you pay to them is up to you. I won't be at all offended if you tell me where to go on one or two of them! I would recommend doing something about the general points, though. Sarastro1 (talk) 20:37, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Yikes, I apologize for thinking I could tend to this one so quickly. It looks like some more work will be required before GA comes about. You can go ahead and fail it if you'd like...it's been mad busy for me the last several weeks! Zepppep (talk) 07:48, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Lofton/M.C.

I've listed Kenny Lofton as a GA. Thanks for all your work on it, and Merry Christmas to you and your family! Go Phightins! 03:43, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

I do apologize for not getting back promptly on that one. It has been a very busy time of year for me thus far! Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you as well! Zepppep (talk) 07:47, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
No problem...Wizardman finished it up. I understand, the Christmas season gets to be insane in my house too. Luckily, most of the members of my house sleep in, so I can edit in silence in the morning! Go Phightins! 13:33, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

GA Thanks

This user helped promote Jason Kipnis to good article status.

On behalf of WP:CHICAGO, I would like to thank you for your editorial contributions to Jason Kipnis, which has recently become a GA. --TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:49, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Your free 1-year Questia online library account is approved and ready

Good news! You are approved for access to 77,000 full-text books and 4 million journal, magazine, newspaper articles, and encyclopedia entries. Check your Wikipedia email!

    • Then go to https://www.questia.com/specialoffer
    • Input your unique Offer ID and Promotional code. Click Continue. (Note that the activation codes are one-time use only and are case-sensitive).
    • Create your account by entering the requested information. (This is private and no one from Wikipedia will see it).
    • You'll then see the welcome page with your Login ID. (Your account is now active for 1 year!).
  • If you need help, please first ask Ocaasi at wikiocaasi@yahoo.com and, second, email QuestiaHelp@cengage.com along with your Offer ID and Promotional Code (subject: Wikipedia).
  • A quick reminder about using the account: 1) try it out; 2) provide original citation information, in addition to linking to a Questia article; 3) avoid bare links to non-free Questia pages; 4) note "(subscription required)" in the citation, where appropriate. Examples are at WP:Questia/Citations.
  • Questia would love to hear feedback at WP:Questia/Experiences
  • Show off your Questia access by placing {{User:Ocaasi/Questia_userbox}} on your userpage
  • When the 1-year period is up, check the applications page to see if renewal is possible. We hope it will be.

Thanks for helping make Wikipedia better. Enjoy your research! Cheers, Ocaasi 18:25, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Questia email failure: Will resend codes

Sorry for the disruption but apparently the email bot failed. We'll resend the codes this week. (note: If you were notified directly that your email preferences were not enabled, you still need to contact Ocaasi). Cheers, User:Ocaasi 21:15, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Questia email success: Codes resent

Check your email. Enjoy! Ocaasi t | c 21:40, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

WikiProject C-SPAN?

Greetings fellow Wikipedia editor -

I am leaving you this note because I have reason to believe that you are interested in C-SPAN. (I may have made this assumption based on your C-SPAN user box, or perhaps for some other reason.) If this is not an interest of yours, please feel free to read no further and delete this message.

If you are in fact someone who is interested in C-SPAN, then let me put forward an idea that I have been kicking around for a while. What if we started a C-SPAN WikiProject?

The parameters of this (potential) project are up for discussion, but it could include some or all of the following (as well as things that may occur to you that have not occurred to me):

  • Creation, maintenance, and improvement of articles and lists directly related to C-SPAN and its programming.
  • Use of C-SPAN programming in citations for various topics
  • Inclusion of unique and targeted C-SPAN video links for various articles. (Doing this with respect for established guidelines at Wikipedia:External links.) (Example: If you are interested in the submarine USS Wyoming (SSBN-742), then having easy access to the eight hours of programming taped while a C-SPAN crew were guests on that submarine could also be of interest to you.)
  • Inclusion of (and possible further creation of) templated links such as {{C-SPAN|laurabush}}, that will easily take article readers to a link of all C-SPAN Video Library links for the person about whom the article is about.
  • What else?

I don't know exactly how far we may want to go, nor in what directions, but I do believe (as I have long noted on my user page) that C-SPAN and Wikipedia are both...

...fantastic vehicles for the free exchange of ideas and information in a non-sound-bite manner, and they both invite the participation of any parties (expert or amateur) who are interested in taking the time to absorb and/or contribute to the ideas and information offered. C-SPAN and Wikipedia go together like peanut butter and jelly, and I want to help give other Wiki users easy access to the great work that C-SPAN has done on a variety of topics.

Now, I should mention that I have never started a WikiProject before, and I do not know the best way to go about it. (Perhaps one of you do?) Let me offer one of my sandbox pages, User:KConWiki/sandbox/Wikiproject C-SPAN?, as a gathering area for comments until such time as we gather enough steam to start our own WikiProject page.

Thanks for reading this far, and I hope that you will give some consideration as to whether this is something we ought to attempt. Please feel free to pass this message on to others you know whom might be interested, and please let me know your thoughts and comments.

KConWiki (talk) 02:21, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Library

Hey! I've done a major redesign of The Wikipedia Library portal. As one of our original volunteers, I'd love you to check it out, pick a role, create a profile to share your story and skills, sign up for the newsletter, and see how you can get involved. I'd also be interested in having a skype chat with you in the next few weeks to see how we can best put your energy to use (or email if that's better for you). Hope you're doing well, Ocaasi t | c 13:25, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Main Page appearance: Bob Feller

This is a note to let the main editors of Bob Feller know that the article will be appearing as today's featured article on November 3, 2013. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. If you prefer that the article appear as TFA on a different date, or not at all, please ask Bencherlite (talk · contribs). You can view the TFA blurb at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/November 3, 2013. If it needs tweaking, or if it needs rewording to match improvements to the article between now and its main page appearance, please edit it, following the instructions at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/instructions. The blurb as it stands now is below:

Bob Feller (1918–2010) was an American baseball pitcher who played 18 seasons in Major League Baseball for the Cleveland Indians. Feller pitched from 1936 to 1941 and from 1945 to 1956, interrupted by wartime service in the U.S. Navy. In a career spanning 570 games, Feller pitched 3,827 innings and posted a win–loss record of 266–162, with 279 complete games, 44 shutouts, and a 3.25 earned run average. He first played for the Indians aged 17 and was the first pitcher to win 24 games in a season before the age of 21. He threw no-hitters in 1940, 1946, and 1951 and also recorded 12 one-hitters; his no-hitters and one-hitters were records at the time of his retirement. He helped the Indians win a World Series title in 1948 and an American League-record 111 wins and the pennant in 1954. Feller led the American League in wins six times and in strikeouts seven times. In 1946, he recorded 348 strikeouts, a total not exceeded for 27 years. An eight-time All-Star, Feller was 36th on Sporting News's list of the 100 Greatest Baseball Players and was named the publication's "greatest pitcher of his time". He was a finalist for the Major League Baseball All-Century Team in 1999. (Full article...)

UcuchaBot (talk) 23:03, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Zepppep/Archive_3&oldid=986990259"