User talk:Zack439

April 2021

Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to blank out or remove portions of page content, templates, or other materials from Wikipedia without adequate explanation, as you did at Sham Ennessim, you may be blocked from editing. 12:39, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

May 2021

Just made a edit & it is not disruptive. I provided an environmental science study which shows the first day of Khamaseen is in March. This is not synchronized with Easter Monday. For example Easter Monday for 2021 is on the third of May. This refutes claims that it is on the first day of Khamaseen. Medieval sources also make no mention of a non-christian version of this holiday that traces to ancient Egypt.

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.

I did not file the report, but you are required to be notified that somebody filed a report about you. —C.Fred (talk) 22:00, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

report filed for vandalism and disruptive editing and deleting other users contributions and sources to force the religious belief -Ladoyob586 (talk) 23:44, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

May 2 2021

I provided adequate explanations for my edits. Furthermore by sheer volume I posted the majority information and sources on that page and they got deleted without adequate explanation. Again the first day of Khamaseen is in late March. https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mustafa-Al-Kuisi/publication/222814007_Characterization_of_the_Khamaseen_Spring_Dust_in_Jordan/links/5b67ab5d299bf1b9303ca43c/Characterization-of-the-Khamaseen-Spring-Dust-in-Jordan.pdf?origin=publication_detail It is not synchronized with Easter Monday which for 2021 it falls on the third of May not end of March. This means it always falls on Easter Monday but it doesn’t always fall on the first day of Khamaseen. And again I have not seen a historical medieval source which attests to a religious-neutral spring festival of pharaonic origin. In contrast I have provided sources which cite medieval primary historical sources to support the claim it is Coptic Christian in origin. Les fêtes des Coptes' Patrologia Orientalis 10 (1915) pp. 314-343, Werthmuller, Kurt J. Coptic Identity and Ayyubid Politics in Egypt, 1218-1250. American Univ in Cairo Press, 2010 pp. 35, Oestigaard, Terje. The Religious Nile. Bloomsbury Publishing, 2018, p. 363. https://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Al-Maqrizi-Coptic_Feast_Days_Alcock2015.pdf We have medieval sources attesting Easter celebration and outdoor activities related to Easter but nothing about a religious-neutral festival of pharaonic origin. The argument I’m making is treating this festival as an extension of Easter & thus a celebration of the resurrection is what has continuity.

User:Zack439

Zack439 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Your concise reason ( vandalized article for months with his extreme Christian thoughts, check his edit only focused on discrediting other and crediting his people ). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ladoyob586 (talk • contribs) 21:52, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Ladoyob586: All I see is a content dispute, not anything that rises to the level of needing administrator intervention at this time. —C.Fred (talk) 22:01, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Zack439 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) You can check his edits, they are completely baseless and provide the sources unrelated to the topic to make it appear valid, he destructed the article over 10 times and remove, he repeatedly corrupted the article and removed an entire section with the sources he also added sources that do not mention Sham Ennessim at all, and added statements about other festivals that are exclusively Christian, he also removed the historical and linguistic sources that provided by another user 197.38.254.174 , it worth mentioning his profile only edits articles to glorify Christians or religion and make traditions exclusive to them without real fact or legit source of evidence but he links other religious sites, he made over 10 edits previously to this The article and keeps deleting other people evidence and sources, article needs to saved . — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ladoyob586 (talk • contribs) 23:41, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

User:Ladoyob586 - Your only edits have been to complain about this dispute. Were you also editing from 197.38.254.174? If so, why are you referring to them as another user? Robert McClenon (talk) 00:33, 3 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If there are only two editors involved, I suggest asking for a Third Opinion either via the article talk page or via the Third Opinion noticeboard. Robert McClenon (talk) 00:33, 3 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'm the user that has been engaged with Zack439, and I'm not "Ladoyob586". My edits were not merely complaints about Zack439's edits, I provided reliable historical and linguistic sources, and explained to him over and over again why his edits are being contested, but he ignored everything I said, and does not provide any reliable sources, and keeps discussing other topics that do not bear on the issue at all. He deleted an entire section and corrupted the article more than once after I told him not to. I posted a talk to the talk page of Sham Ennessim explaining the situation in detail (here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sham_Ennessim#Regarding_the_edits_by_the_user_%22Zack439%22,_which_I_consider_to_be_purely_ideological); he just ignored the talk I posted and reverted the to his ideological edits again; with an extremely deceiving edit summary, the sources he added (which he calls "medieval") do not mention Sham Ennessim at all, he is saying "proving", while the sources are about other festivals entirely. Everything else that he claimed I addressed. Also, another user gave his opinion on the edits made by Zack439, which can be seen in the edit history. I hope someone interferes. 197.38.254.174 (talk) 01:14, 3 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I’m Zack439. From what I’ve seen the medieval sources do not mention “Sham Ennessim” explicitly and as something separate from Easter. That’s the point. Outdoor activities in association with Easter is mentioned & Easter is on the list of those mentioned by Maqrizi. https://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Al-Maqrizi-Coptic_Feast_Days_Alcock2015.pdf No independent religious-neutral spring festival mentioned by medieval sources for Egypt. Page 35 in “Coptic Identity and Ayyubid Politics in Egypt, 1218-1250” a medieval historian is quoted where he mentions public celebration of Easter festivals. For Christian Copts “Sham Ennesim” are activities done as a part of Easter “Although Copts treat Spring Day as an extension of Easter“ https://english.alarabiya.net/perspective/features/2015/04/06/Coptic-Easter-How-Egypt-celebrates-the-rising-of-Christ
My argument from the beginning is historically and traditionally the meaning behind this festival was about celebrating the resurrection of Christ and thus it was historically seen as an extension of Easter, hence the outdoor activities in association with Easter. Hence we see Easter mentioned & outdoor activities in association with Easter mentioned in medieval sources but no religious-neutral spring festival that is independent from Easter mentioned in the medieval sources. A modern news article says “Although Copts treat Spring Day as an extension of Easter“ https://english.alarabiya.net/perspective/features/2015/04/06/Coptic-Easter-How-Egypt-celebrates-the-rising-of-Christ the thing is the tradition of Copts treating it as an extension of Easter is the only narrative that has continuity with the medieval source because the only Easter Monday spring festivities mentioned in those sources are linked to Easter. Is there a medieval source that mentions a spring festival around the time of Easter Monday and that is independent from Easter and religious neutral? If yes you need to provide it and prove it.
Again That it why it always falls on Easter Monday. It does not always fall on the first day of Khamaseen. I provided a environmental science study which says Khamaseen starts in end of March, the problem is Easter Monday is not synchronized with that. https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mustafa-Al-Kuisi/publication/222814007_Characterization_of_the_Khamaseen_Spring_Dust_in_Jordan/links/5b67ab5d299bf1b9303ca43c/Characterization-of-the-Khamaseen-Spring-Dust-in-Jordan.pdf

For example 2021 Easter Monday is on the third of May. To substantiate the claim by EW Lane 1834 you need to provide an environmental science study which shows that the first day of Khamaseen is synchronized with Coptic Easter Monday.

    As for the linguistic argument, it still doesn’t prove Shemu and Sham Ennesim are the same thing. Because just because šmw provides the etymology for ϣⲱⲙ that doesn’t mean they are referring to the same event or thing. Even if the names were exactly the same, that still wouldn’t mean they are referring to the same thing. For example there is a Coptic Saint known as St. Amun (Ⲁⲙⲟⲩⲛ). His feast day is on 20 Pashons(Ⲡⲁϣⲟⲛⲥ) in the Coptic calendar. As you see he shares the same name as the pharaonic god Amun but clearly a different person.  Regnault, L., 2021. Amun, Saint. Ccdl.claremont.edu. Sharing the same name or being linked etymologically by name doesn’t mean it is the same person or event.

according to Plutarch during the 1st century AD, the Ancient Egyptians used to offer salted fish, lettuce, and onions to Their Deities on the beginning of the spring, Christian copts won't bring things to deities which is against their religion not to mention you have this heavily flawed mindset that copts means Christians not Egyptian, when you say copts outside egypt practice it then it literally means Egyptians outside Egypt practice it which is normal because it is part of their culture and has nothing to do with their religion The author is trying to force it as Christian celebration even though it would be documented well by churches but it is well known that it is Egyptian in general not Christian, also the author only edits coptic articles in the same manner which shows huge bias in my opinion Also articles he posts is about how copts in egypt celebrate easter and it is irrelevant to the topic and this celebration, it is literally talking about the normal easter day but with the Egyptian traditions (talk

rebuttal

First of all the data is clear that Copts are a distinct ethnicity from modern Egyptians(noncopts) & that is already established in population genetics studies. Also it is celebrated among Copts in Sudan & other Copts outside of Egypt in general. So it necessary to include Copts outside of Egypt, especially the Copt community in Sudan which their community is a product of migration from Egypt to Sudan which started 200 years ago. Secondly indeed for Shemu they offered these things to the deities. Nobody does this on Sham Ennesim because Sham Ennesim is not Shemu. That’s been my point. This spring festival which always falls on Easter Monday is Coptic Christian in origin. I’ve affirmed that non-Christians partake in it (minus the believing in the resurrection part), which I why mentioned it. But that doesn’t negate it is Coptic Christian by origin. That’s why it always falls on Easter Monday & that is why you can only find festivals in association with Easter attested in medieval sources. I’ve also provided a piece written by HG Bishop Youssef who affirms what I’m saying about it being a part of Easter, so your claim about this not being affirmed in the churches is not correct. From what I’ve seen the medieval sources do not mention “Sham Ennessim” explicitly and as something separate from Easter. That’s the point. Outdoor activities in association with Easter is mentioned & Easter is on the list of those mentioned by Maqrizi. https://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Al-Maqrizi-Coptic_Feast_Days_Alcock2015.pdf No independent religious-neutral spring festival mentioned by medieval sources for Egypt. Page 35 in “Coptic Identity and Ayyubid Politics in Egypt, 1218-1250” a medieval historian is quoted where he mentions public celebration of Easter festivals. For Christian Copts “Sham Ennesim” are activities done as a part of Easter “Although Copts treat Spring Day as an extension of Easter“ https://english.alarabiya.net/perspective/features/2015/04/06/Coptic-Easter-How-Egypt-celebrates-the-rising-of-Christ
My argument from the beginning is historically and traditionally the meaning behind this festival was about celebrating the resurrection of Christ and thus it was historically seen as an extension of Easter, hence the outdoor activities in association with Easter. Hence we see Easter mentioned & outdoor activities in association with Easter mentioned in medieval sources but no religious-neutral spring festival that is independent from Easter mentioned in the medieval sources. A modern news article says “Although Copts treat Spring Day as an extension of Easter“ https://english.alarabiya.net/perspective/features/2015/04/06/Coptic-Easter-How-Egypt-celebrates-the-rising-of-Christ the thing is the tradition of Copts treating it as an extension of Easter is the only narrative that has continuity with the medieval source because the only Easter Monday spring festivities mentioned in those sources are linked to Easter. Is there a medieval source that mentions a spring festival around the time of Easter Monday and that is independent from Easter and religious neutral? If yes you need to provide it and prove it.
Again That is why it always falls on Easter Monday. It does not always fall on the first day of Khamaseen. I provided a environmental science study which says Khamaseen starts in end of March, the problem is Easter Monday is not synchronized with that. https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mustafa-Al-Kuisi/publication/222814007_Characterization_of_the_Khamaseen_Spring_Dust_in_Jordan/links/5b67ab5d299bf1b9303ca43c/Characterization-of-the-Khamaseen-Spring-Dust-in-Jordan.pdf

For example 2021 Easter Monday is on the third of May.

rebuttal

First of all the data is clear that Copts are a distinct ethnicity from modern Egyptians(noncopts) & that is already established in population genetics studies. Also it is celebrated among Copts in Sudan & other Copts outside of Egypt in general. So it necessary to include Copts outside of Egypt, especially the Copt community in Sudan which their community is a product of migration from Egypt to Sudan which started 200 years ago. Secondly indeed for Shemu they offered these things to the deities. Nobody does this on Sham Ennesim because Sham Ennesim is not Shemu. That’s been my point. This spring festival which always falls on Easter Monday is Coptic Christian in origin. I’ve affirmed that non-Christians partake in it (minus the believing in the resurrection part), which I why mentioned it. But that doesn’t negate it is Coptic Christian by origin. That’s why it always falls on Easter Monday & that is why you can only find festivals in association with Easter attested in medieval sources. I’ve also provided a piece written by HG Bishop Youssef who affirms what I’m saying about it being a part of Easter, so your claim about this not being affirmed in the churches is not correct. From what I’ve seen the medieval sources do not mention “Sham Ennessim” explicitly and as something separate from Easter. That’s the point. Outdoor activities in association with Easter is mentioned & Easter is on the list of those mentioned by Maqrizi. https://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Al-Maqrizi-Coptic_Feast_Days_Alcock2015.pdf No independent religious-neutral spring festival mentioned by medieval sources for Egypt. Page 35 in “Coptic Identity and Ayyubid Politics in Egypt, 1218-1250” a medieval historian is quoted where he mentions public celebration of Easter festivals. For Christian Copts “Sham Ennesim” are activities done as a part of Easter “Although Copts treat Spring Day as an extension of Easter“ https://english.alarabiya.net/perspective/features/2015/04/06/Coptic-Easter-How-Egypt-celebrates-the-rising-of-Christ
My argument from the beginning is historically and traditionally the meaning behind this festival was about celebrating the resurrection of Christ and thus it was historically seen as an extension of Easter, hence the outdoor activities in association with Easter. Hence we see Easter mentioned & outdoor activities in association with Easter mentioned in medieval sources but no religious-neutral spring festival that is independent from Easter mentioned in the medieval sources. A modern news article says “Although Copts treat Spring Day as an extension of Easter“ https://english.alarabiya.net/perspective/features/2015/04/06/Coptic-Easter-How-Egypt-celebrates-the-rising-of-Christ the thing is the tradition of Copts treating it as an extension of Easter is the only narrative that has continuity with the medieval source because the only Easter Monday spring festivities mentioned in those sources are linked to Easter. Is there a medieval source that mentions a spring festival around the time of Easter Monday and that is independent from Easter and religious neutral? If yes you need to provide it and prove it.
Again That is why it always falls on Easter Monday. It does not always fall on the first day of Khamaseen. I provided a environmental science study which says Khamaseen starts in end of March, the problem is Easter Monday is not synchronized with that. https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mustafa-Al-Kuisi/publication/222814007_Characterization_of_the_Khamaseen_Spring_Dust_in_Jordan/links/5b67ab5d299bf1b9303ca43c/Characterization-of-the-Khamaseen-Spring-Dust-in-Jordan.pdf

For example 2021 Easter Monday is on the third of May.

4 May 2021

You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you remove or change other editors' legitimate talk page comments, as you did at Sham Ennessim.

4 May 2021

When did I do that? I only edited my comments as far as I know. If i did it to others it was not intentional.

Edit warring - STOP reverting, you've been warned!

Your recent editing history at Sham Ennessim shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See the bold, revert, discuss cycle for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

Zack439 here

What is the alternative when the other user in this dispute is primarily ideologically motivated? He does not provide an adequate explanations for my questions & my rebuttals. The report he cited from 1834 claims that this holiday of Sham Ennesim is observed on the first day of Khamaseen & it just happens to immediately follow the Coptic Easter Sunday festival. I’ve provided to the user two studies one from 2009 & the other from 2014 which claim the first day of Khamaseen is at the end of March https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mustafa-Al-Kuisi/publication/222814007_Characterization_of_the_Khamaseen_Spring_Dust_in_Jordan/links/5b67ab5d299bf1b9303ca43c/Characterization-of-the-Khamaseen-Spring-Dust-in-Jordan.pdf https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/234685858.pdf & have shown historical trend data for Easter which shows Orthodox Julian Calendar(which the Coptic Orthodox Church follows for Easter) Easter dates the majority time does not fall at the end of March http://5ko.free.fr/en/easter.php?y=19 which means this holiday is usually not observed on the first day of Khamaseen refuting EW Lane’s claim on this. This historical trend data & the two studies I’ve provided refute EW Lanes 1834 report. Another problem is the EW Lane report claims Muslims of Egypt calculate the date to be at the start of the Khamaseen which happens to follow Coptic Easter. Two problems with this first even in 1834 Coptic Easter was not at the end of March & same case is the case for the majority of documented dates for this Easter in the data http://5ko.free.fr/en/easter.php?y=19 the second problem with this is the user has not provided an adequate explanation for how Muslims of Egypt today choose the date. I asked the user how did they come up with the date May 3 for 2021? How did they come up with April 20 for 2020? How did they come up with April 29 for 2019? How did they come up with April 9 for 2018? How did they come up with April 17 for 2017? How did they come up with May 2 for 2016? And said if the claim is they used to calculate it this way & do not calculate it to be in the first day of Khamaseen anymore, that means lack of continuity with the current holiday since they would not be following their supposed traditional date for celebration. If the claim is they just follow the Coptic Easter Monday date, that means it is inextricably connected to the Coptic fasting schedule & not independent from Coptic Easter Monday. These are questions & rebuttals I’ve yet to receive an adequate answer from the user. To substantiate the notion of its date being independent from Coptic Easter Monday & Lane’s claim, the user needs to provide an adequate explanation to my questions & rebuttals. If the user can’t, then clearly doesn’t care about the truth & is primarily ideologically motivated. Not date driven or evidence driven.

Concern regarding Draft:Shom Ennisim

Hello, Zack439. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:Shom Ennisim, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again or request that it be moved to your userspace.

If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 01:01, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Concern regarding Draft:Sham Ennessim

Hello, Zack439. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:Sham Ennessim, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again or request that it be moved to your userspace.

If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 02:01, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Your draft article, Draft:Shom Ennisim

Hello, Zack439. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Shom Ennisim".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. If you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:24, 4 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]