User talk:Yulia Romero/Archive 8

I Wish You All A Merry Christmas And A Happy New Year 2012. Let Us Build Greatness!

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Yulia Tymoshenko

I was looking at the Yulia Tymoshenko article, and I was very surprised to see that the article isn't rated "top" importance even on WikiProject Ukraine. A recent Prime Minister isn't "top" importance? I would change it, but I'm not part of WP-UK. The article is quite impressive btw. INeverCry 02:36, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the compliment! I did spend a lot of time on the article back in the days, that is also why I think I should not "rate" the article because It would feel to me I was rating my own work. I will ask on Talk:Yulia Tymoshenko. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 19:12, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the response. If educated Westerners were asked to name interesting Ukrainians, Yulia Tymoshenko and Viktor Yushchenko would probably be at the top of the list. INeverCry 19:42, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	I keep seeing your username in the revision histories of articles connected with the Ukrainian politics. And I really like your articles and edits, which are timely, accurate, with sources, etc. Thank you a lot for your work. aleksandrit (talk) 16:16, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! I do not edit as much as before but at days I do edit there is always a Ukrainian Minister sacked.... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 18:22, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

New list

List of Ukrainian-language writers --INeverCry 21:36, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

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Biographies of living persons noticeboard

Hi Yulia. This is to let you know that a discussion has been opened on the Biographies of living persons noticeboard about Victor. Best regards. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 23:43, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 00:13, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Don't mention it Yulia. It was a pleasure. I also replied to you at BLPN. All the best. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 00:22, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

The blame is not on you.... I should have looked more critical to the sources...... And I regret to say that for a moment a made the mistake to think that you tried to improve the Presidential image whille you where all the time trying to improve Wikipedia......... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 00:30, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

This is one of the nicest comments anyone has made about me on Wikipedia. Thank you very much for your kindness Julia. It was very nice meeting you. Take care. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 04:57, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks; I got the feeling we will meet again on Wikipedia cause them Ukrainian politicians have very bad reputations and are surrounded by rumours.... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 20:01, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

I am only watching the articles of the two Viktors, Yushchenko and Yanukovych. I think that's enough. I have been watching the two articles since Yushchenko had become president by defeating Yanukovych. The unusual story of that election caught my attention. Since then, for better or worse I kept the two articles on my watchlist. Sometimes I also check Yulia Tymoshenko's article. I still haven't read it in depth but I find it very unusual that she was imprisoned. Maybe I will try to read more in the future to understand the background of her incarceration. The rest of the Ukrainian politicians don't seem to be in the same league as these three. But I could be wrong. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 03:27, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

For now them 3 (Tymoshenko, Yushchenko and Yanukovych) are the most noticeably politicians of Ukraine, although Yushchenko seems political dead since 2010..., but things might change after the next Ukrainian parliamentary election for next October (Arseniy Yatsenyuk might replace Yushchenko, he seems to have stolen his voters).

The UN, US and EU agree with you about the sentence of Tymoshenko... I am not saying it is, but in my perception (perception is not always "The Truth" in my view of the world) it has strong signs of it being a payback/revenge by (current Minister of Energy and Coal Industry of Ukraine) Yuriy Boyko and/or Dmytro Firtash — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 19:44, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

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Category:Central Election Commission of Ukraine

Category:Central Election Commission of Ukraine, which you created, has been nominated for discussion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Green Giant (talk) 22:13, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Фото на сторінці Королевської

Привіт. Ви ось Тимошенко любите. А чого ж фото відновили, де вона із зрадником Королевською? Ви за новинами слідкуєте? Королевьку виключили з БЮТ за співпрацю з владою.

Опозиції доступу вільного до ТБ немає - а у Королевської всюди на ТБ відкриті двері. Декі опозіціонери на різних ток-шоу (наприклад, Шустер live) не рахуються, бо то задумка влади така (показують світу ілюзію свободи преси). Якщо вам дуже треба поставьте свій варіант фото без Тимошенко. Я не можу, бо в англ. вікіпедії мені не зрозумілі ліцензії на фото. Дякую за увагу. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ok14ok (talk • contribs) 19:55, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

The only reason why I did not remove the picture was because there was none to replace it... I was aware she split up with BYuT (I edited that into the article about her ). But I fixed that problem already! About why and how Korolevska left BYuT I have no opinion cause it is for me hard to see what is really going on in BYuT... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 19:23, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Your opinion please

What do you think of this website Information Agency "Ruspres"?

How I learned of it was a mention of an article on the S-400 surface to air missile system.--Toddy1 (talk) 17:14, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

At first glance it looks to me as a Russian version of Ukrayinska Pravda. But (unlike Ukrayinska Pravda) it seems to only attack the rulling Russian elite (a.k.a. Putin and his buddies) which seriously undermines its credibility for me. Once again this is only at first glance and since I am not that interested in Russia I do not expect to use this website on Wikipedia much.... Remember you can always go to Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard for an independent advice (though I don't mind to advice I am not an Wikipedia expert....). Personally I think for now I would only use www.rospres.com as a back up source (meaning using it in combination with a well established news agency website)... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 15:38, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Akhmetov

Hey, just wondering if you had an opinion on Orekhova's edits? Seems she's going ahead and just deleting whatever she wants again without consensus, and since you were involved in the talks to an extent, figured you might have a take (rather than her and I just edit war ad infinitum) --Львівське (говорити) 17:40, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks just did. Don't forget there is Wikipedia:Be bold ! I have not much time this weekend to look deep into Wiki-stuff though... But it is easy to make misinterpretations of other peoples edits.............................. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 18:53, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, but bold can mean bold-revert followed by another bold-revert, and then it's just revert-revert-revert. Need the 'discuss' part for the BOLD WP:CYCLE to work. ;) --Львівське (говорити) 19:28, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

I am already happy when editors do not think Wikipedia is an MMORPG .... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 20:31, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

I was going to go ahead and merge the mafia stuff into his regular bio chronologically but was having a hard time deciding how to do it. Your thoughts? One of the problems is that bloated sub-section on retractions. Looking over things, I think at the least it makes sense to group this content together (it deals with the same time period). I'm going to move it before the business stuff, maybe as a sub of early life? It's pre-business career, that much is certain...hmm...--Львівське (говорити) 02:57, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Sorry for the long wait...... I have some outer wiki-stuff going on in my live...... Merging "Renats alleged mafia adventures" into the section "Beginnings" seems like the best way to go... to me.... "Beginnings" also sound NPOV. Although it does look strange that nothing is written about the period between "alleged mafia adventures" and System Capital Management Group in 2000. There must have happened more then him buying Akceptbank in 1995. Did he not buy a couple of mines/factories in between a.k.a. in the late 1990’s? — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 21:19, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

I tried to look up the latter and did not get further then this.... He truly is a Man of Mystery.... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 22:04, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

I'll see if I can find any more info on the post-Bragin years. I guess he inherited the money, started up his shell operations / banks and built from there. In the political activity section we see him involving himself in oblast politics in '97 and getting his boys in place...--Львівське (говорити) 03:47, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

I think more should be made of the clash with the IUD, Wilson talks more about it, I guess I'll look around --Львівське (говорити) 03:49, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Toddy1 undid the chronological order...now it starts with everything else and leads into "the following is a summary"...which looks like poor written form. Not too keen on how he rephrased things either, seemed more neutral before the edits.--Львівське (говорити) 12:51, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

It was a hatchet job before the edits.--Toddy1 (talk) 13:10, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

I thought it was done quite well before you came along. Now it's out of chronology and other parts are either POV-pushes, misrepresentation of sources, or unencyclopedic tone. Hatchet job? Yeah, I'd say it's starting to look like one, thanks a lot.--Львівське (говорити) 16:20, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Although I have found some of Toddy1’s edit a bit strange…. (but he did not mind me correcting them) I welcome his contributions since it gets thing going and brought the article in better shape. The more editors who work on an article the better the article becomes (most of the time…) — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 15:22, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Smile!

A smile for you You’ve just received a random act of kindness! 66.87.0.230 (talk) 17:26, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Tag review

Please could you have a look at the article on Odessa Numismatics Museum, and decide whether the tags at the top of the article are still justified. If they are not, please delete them, or replace them with other more appropriate ones.--Toddy1 (talk) 08:13, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Done; this article could still use more additional citations for verification... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 15:35, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks--Toddy1 (talk) 16:12, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

See the Party of the Regions is doing a good job

I liked your edit.[1] Maybe one day we will see {{User:Yulia Romero/Userbox/Viktor Yanukovych}}.--Toddy1 (talk) 22:50, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Do you think that demonstrations against perceived police corruption as reported in [2] belong in the article on corruption in Ukraine?--Toddy1 (talk) 23:35, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

I just made it a see also in the article; so I would say yes. But since it was not a general "demonstrations against perceived police corruption" but rather linked to this personal drama I think that is enough. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 23:45, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

I suspect the demonstrators where also fed up of all them "mazhory". — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 00:12, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Citations

I have no objections to your adding citations to Ukrainian language pages to articles.

Do you really think it is necessary to have all the citations though in Ukrainian? I noticed that you changed an easily understood Russian language citation to a difficult to understand Ukrainian language one. Will you also be replacing the English language citations with Ukrainian language citations?

I do not think your edit [3] was appropriate. Many users of English language Wikipedia either do not speak Ukrainian or understand it with difficulty. Whereas English and Russian are more commonly understood.

The poem on uk:Користувач:Gutsul nicely explains why Eastern Ukrainian people should not be forced to abandon their native Russian/Yiddish in favour of the language of the bureaucrats in Kiev.--Toddy1 (talk) 17:49, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

I got a bit grumpy some editor fiddled around whit an edit I made without my consent; this has nothing to do with "forcing the Donbass to speak Ukrainian". So I reedited it back more out of hooliganism then out of anything else; maybe not the most friendly thing I did on Wikipedia, but it was changed by another editor without a good reason given… I think it is rude to change somebody’s edit without explaining why and without any need (the general editor on English Wikipedia speaks Russian nor Ukrainian; this is English Wikipedia, not Post Soviet countries Wikipedia, Google translate translates just as good from Ukrainian as from Russian...). When I edit in English Wikipedia the reader I have in mind is somebody like Joe the Plumber; I do not edit for Russian diaspora nor Ukrainian diaspora... Russian is widely not understood in the English speaking world… You know that too... Is there a poem around about jumping to a wrong conclusion about somebody you never met ... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 18:33, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I now understand your strange edit a bit better. I am appologise for some of the above comments. I have struck through the comments that I now realise that I should not have made.

• you added a citation for her age at 16:22, 8 April 2012
• WWGB deleted your citation in his edit of 00:17, 9 April 2012 stating "foreign language citation not necessary, it makes no claims that are not found in existing English language references"
• In my edit of 20:32, 8 April 2012, I added a citation for police bail that Oxy provided in the talk page I did not notice that this was the Russian version of a Ukrainian citation you provided for her age.
• Completion of my edit
• You switched from the easily understood Russian version to the hard to understand Ukrainian version of the article in the belief that someone had converted your Ukrainian reference to a Russian reference.

Sorry.--Toddy1 (talk) 18:46, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Your statement that your edit "was changed by another editor without a good reason given" is understandable, but mistaken.--Toddy1 (talk) 18:53, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Don't worry, be happy; if I had a dime for every time I wrongly interpretated an edit by another editor I would be as rich as Renat Akhmetov.... I later also saw that my edit was not reused in another way I used it for; but (thanks to you) I am now sure that interpretation is right….. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 18:59, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Mazhory

Hi Yulia, thanks for the edits to this article. Just to assure you - I wasn't being racist ;) I got the impression from various sources (like this) that it was Russian too :) Anyway, cheers for the refs you added. Malick78 (talk) 17:55, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

I did not think so ; I personally could not find any sources in English about these Mazhory being a big problem in current Russia. That is all. Looking back I should have explained my edit better... I seem to be a bit reckless today.... . Anyhow creating the article was a good idea; now we/us editors need to fill it up! I was glad to be of help! — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 18:43, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Not sure your luxurynet.ru source you give above is realiable source; it would be nice for Russia if this Mazhory is only a minor thing there... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 19:10, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

I have a feeling mazhory exist in Russia... maybe not in Moscow, but elsewhere. Btw, prijatnogo slushania! :) Malick78 (talk) 19:47, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

ДДТ never lied to me; so it must be true... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 20:13, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

I'm getting the feeling that in Russia mazhory (always plural) are just kids of rich parents, whereas in the Ukraine it's more sinister - they're the children of people with influence. Do you feel that too? Malick78 (talk) 20:37, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

I am not following what is going on in Russia as close as what is going on in Ukraine…. So you are asking the wrong editor I am afraid; I have no clue. I could ask some Russian Vkontakte-friends of mine but that would only result in WP:OR… For Ukraine I do research; for Russia I just read what my paper says (and newspaper seem to only find out anything when somebody dies because of it; as the murder of Oksana Makar shows). You could ask at the talkpage of WikiProject Russia for input on this. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 00:00, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

• Ok. Thx :)

Hello. You have a new message at Skier Dude's talk page.

Justice and corruption

One of your recent edits was malformed.[4]. I was going to correct it, but I think it would be better to rewrite that edit more completely. As I do not want to annoy you unnecessarily, I would prefer you to do it. I think you have tried to be concise, but ended up being weasel-like in this edit. I my opinion it would have better to have quoted three of the people named in the article with their different criticisms. But I would avoid mentioning the criticism of the Tymoshenko trial.

(The reason I advise not mentioning the Tymoshenko trial in the corruption in Ukraine article is that it would discredit the article. As I am sure you have noticed, a huge propaganda effort being mounted by her people to try to discredit the trial. We both know that corruption in Ukraine is a big problem. We both know that it affects most walks of life. If the argument is the Ukrainian courts are sometimes unfair... and here are these people saying why... well that is believable. If some people deduce that if Ukrainian courts are sometimes unfair and therefore the propaganda being mounted by YT might be true, that is up to them. But if the argument is that convicted criminal, billionaire oligarch YT gets people to say she did not get a fair trial - well lots of convicted criminals in all countries say they did not get a fair trial... so that fails to convince. I know you like YT, but please let's not link this page to her propaganda efforts. It is not in Wikipedia's interest; and it is not in her interest either.)--Toddy1 (talk) 17:52, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice but as far as I understood the source it speaks of "Independent lawyers and human rights activists" meaning a lot more then these 3 people; I could find more sources for the claim these unnamed lawyers and activist make but in my perception this particular edit of mine was not weaselly... I will have another look at the edit soon/later. I had no intention to link YT to the general state of corruption in Ukraine (I agree with your reasons above why that should be avoided); I always try to be neutral. Fortunately the days where Ukrainian articles on English Wikipedia looked to be written by the Tourist board of Ukraine are long gone.... When I started my career as an editor Ukrainian articles on English Wikipedia had close to none negative information... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 18:25, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

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"Femen"

Ukrainian "Femen" (in the article "Women's rights in Ukraine") is not a feminist organization, but is a "parody of feminism." See article "Femen" in Wikipedia-ru (мany participants from Ukraine written there). According to many journalists - a group of "Femen" was created under the "Football Championship Euro-2012" - to lure sex tourists in Ukraine. --Vles1 (talk) 21:57, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Seems wp:fringe to me... If you want you can discuss this/bring it up at the talkpage of FEMEN. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 19:12, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Citing non-English sources

English language Wikipedia style guides say that when you quote things in other languages, you should include a translation into English as well. Your most recent article has many citations whose title is in Ukrainian. Please add translations in brackets afterwards.

Having the original language of the title (as you have done) is a really good thing, because it makes it fully findable. URLs are often not permanent.--Toddy1 (talk) 05:11, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

I was not aware of this....... Seems a good thing so I will do so in future. Thanks for the advice (and compliment). — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 22:45, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

"Yulia Tymoshenko November 2009-3cropped.jpg"

About the photo "Yulia Tymoshenko November 2009-3cropped.jpg"

Hi, Yulia Romero! About the photo "Yulia Tymoshenko November 2009-3cropped.jpg". User İncelemeelemani 1) deployed photo 180 degrees. 2) He made ​​the photo darker, and the photo became less sharp.

Please restore "your version of the photo." If the photo is too light, then I can make darker (without loss of sharpness).--Vles1 (talk) 21:43, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Since you restored "my version of the photo" ourself and İncelemeelemani did not object to this I presume the problem is solved. I do not think the photo is too light. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 22:38, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Vandalism

I think you are wrong! Ukrainians are not "history", they are alive people. Farmiga, Kurylenko and others are good world presenters of Ukrainians. Seems to me that you are pushing some soviet mentality here ... Blokhin is a Russian for example, and you are eraseing Ukrainian persons?! Daniel of Galicia was Ukrainian king and you are eraseing it - only fascistly orientated Russians do that?! Your work is vandalism!! I will sent report to administrators if you don't improve your last changes - be objecitv!! You have one day. Thanks!--Olexiy Parker (talk) 16:10, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Please read Wikipedia:No personal attacks and Wikipedia:Consensus and Wikipedia:Ownership of articles. The infobox picture was a result of a consensus reached on the talkpage. Thus your edits on Ukrainians looks a lot more like vandalism then mine. And since you are threatening me in attempt to follow your line you seem the one of us 2 who has a Soviet-mentality... If you have a problem with the pictures go to the talkpage of the article.... And Ukraine had a Soviet past; whitewashing that Soviet past out of the infobox seems WP:propaganda that has nothing to do with being objective... Blokhin's had a Ukrainian mother.... Olga Kurylenko's mother was also not a Ukrainian.... You don’t seem to follow your own arguments while editing… Claiming that Kurylenko is more Iconic for Ukraine then Blokhin is just noncense…. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 16:25, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Yulia, the infobox is not a reflection of the consensus we tried to establish and your additions of random unknown figures also contradicts the fragile consensus we tried to establish.--Львівське (говорити) 16:29, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Dear Львівське, here above you are promoting to me Wikipedia:CYCLE. Please also follow that principle on Ukrainians. We can discuss the inclusion of Paraska Korolyuk on the talkpage. She is the only "unknown figures" I edited into the infobox... Symon Petliura is not unknown and the 2 woman I edited in today where suggestions by Olexiy Parker.... No need for this blame game we have now going on on my talkpage (and this blame game we have now going on on my talkpage looks very Post-Soviet to me; I once read the refusal to reach consensus is typical for people with a Post-Soviet mentality…). — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 16:51, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Articles for deletion

I am considering proposing the article on Mazhory for deletion. The term means rich people. It is being applied by journalists both to rich people and well connected people.

• Coverage of the term is unbalanced. The article focuses on negative aspects of the well off and well connected.
  • Maybe Wikipedia should have an article entitled footballers that uses newspaper articles about how footballers abuse their wives/girlfriends, beat people up, waste money on expensive prostitutes, and that kind of thing. A look at English language newspapers shows that these aspects of footballers are often covered in the news. The article need not mention that footballers are so named because they play football (stories in the front pages of English newspapers do not mention the football playing aspect of footballers.
• The article describes a universal phenomenon. In every country there are rich and well connected people. And, sometimes such people act badly - just like in Eastern and Central Ukraine.
• There are political aspects to the article that do not exist in real life. You know this; I know this.

--Toddy1 (talk) 05:42, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm not to crazy about how things are going on that article... If parts will be copied to Murder of Oksana Makar (the protest in that case came not from thin air but also from frustration build up after Roman Landik and other Mazhory adventures), Corruption in Ukraine#Juridical corruption (the protection of these Mazhory seems another flaw of the system...) and Soviet Union (I could not find a better place for these Soviet Mazhory) I think I will suport a deletion... I hope you are not thinking the article is right now a See what a bad job Yanukovych is doing-page or something... I am not seeing that....
— Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 17:58, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

I would prefer it if the content on Talk:Mazhory would not be deleted; since it has some interesting information on it. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 19:15, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

I agree - but it could be moved to another page, or to a sandbox or something.--Toddy1 (talk) 19:52, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

I still think it's worth keeping. The geographical thing is no reason to delete - especially since I've just added a ref to explain the reason for the perceived bias against the east (it actually seems to occur there more than in the west). It's a real phenomenon in the Ukraine (the Russian version of mazhory is less notable, I admit - though I think the Soviet part is important) and is a subject in its own right.Malick78 (talk) 21:15, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

I think the ideas of Mykola Riabchuk are Fringe theories. I think he is probably right but ten points for guessing what wp:weight we should give to my personal opinions. I would prefer to hear an academic point of view rather then a journalistic point of view on this "geographic nature of Mazhory in Ukraine". Them hard to find academic point of view by Ukrainian academics.... Spend ages finding them for FEMEN and ended only up with 2 small quotes... I am also concerned the page is becoming a Whatever you do, do not vote for the Party of Regions-page. I think Whatever you do, do not vote for the Party of Regions is a good principal in life but per wp:propaganda I try not to let it influence me when editing Wikipedia... I am afraid it has influenced Riabchuk's work. Besides if we make Mazhory a redirect page to Corruption in Ukraine#Juridical corruption I do not think a lot will be lost. In fact it might give readers a better perspective on things (by reading the rest of Corruption in Ukraine) then Mazhory on its own ever could. I do not care about the Soviet Union. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 21:39, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Hi again. I don't understand why you think Mykola Riabchuk's views are fringe. The article is published by a respected org - Open Democracy. To call it fringe needs some justification. Quite why you think a journalist is not a good source confuses me as well. Nowhere on WP is there anything saying journalists are, themselves, to be considered unreliable. I agree some kind of academic literature would be nice, but that too can be fringe sometimes. It's not automatically better. As for your opinions on the Soviet Union - well, if a connection with the USSR is relevant to the article it's relevant. Your feelings should hardly affect your views on whether something is notable and deserves to remain an article. Djakuju, Malick78 (talk) 18:12, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Nemaye problem! My feelings don't affect my views on whether something is notable and deserves to remain an article; but it does effect if I will spend time on creating any articles; I am sure that you don't mind that a Wikipedia editor who does not care about Africa is not editing articles about Africa... I was trying to say you should not count on help from me for articles about the USSR. My problems with Mykola Riabchuk's views is that I am not sure how many others share this view of him on Mazhory.... (as you noticed on Talk:Mazhory his view is not always shared). Nor do I know anything about his background (I am not saying that all journalist are unreliable; but some are...). I am also afraid the logic "Southeastern Ukraine is firmly controlled by the Party of Regions thus Party of Regions are to blame for all the Mazhory" might fall under wp:synth. Not sure if wp:synth by sources is less bad as the same thing done by editors.... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 18:29, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

I wasn't counting on you to add the USSR info - I'd not asked you to ;) I was just mentioning it in passing. As for: "Not sure if wp:synth by sources is less bad as the same thing done by editors..." - synth is only bad when done by editors. All our sources synthesise their info to some extent - but since they aren't us, it's not OR and is fine to cite (as long as it's considered reliable). So, synth is not an issue here. If you think though that the mazhory issue is more widespread... then that would require a source to cancel out Riabchuk's views, surely. Maybe there's been one mentioned so far..., but I've not noticed it. Malick78 (talk) 18:38, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

If you don't mind I would like to continue this discussion on Talk:Mazhory before things get really unfollowable.... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 19:26, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Ok. Btw, do you understand what Toddy's problem is? The source isn't primary and the tag he's putting on the ref section is wrong - ref titles don't need to be translated. If you have an opinion please give it. Malick78 (talk) 20:36, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Toddy seems to forget that Wikipedia has its limits... I think he is trying to get across the message that it is not only the Party of Regions who is fu*(**(*ng up Ukraine. But if there are no sources out there who agree we can not state such a thing in a Wikipedia article... If there are only sources out there who say "Party of Regions (PoR) is the source of all problems in Ukraine" we have no other option then to edit this into Wikipedia articles about Ukraine.... It also seems very logic to me that there must be more reasons for the existence of these Mazhory then PoR But ten points for guessing what weight we should give to your own opinions about what makes someone a Nazi or a Mazhory.... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 18:04, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

File:Natalya Korolevskaya and Yulia Tymoshenko in the Verkhovna Rada 3 June 2008.jpg

Hey, Yulia Romero,

I was wondering where you got the images that are in File:Natalya Korolevskaya and Yulia Tymoshenko in the Verkhovna Rada 3 June 2008.jpg?

-- ТимофейЛееСуда. 22:38, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

From this now defunct archive of Yulia Tymoshenko's oficial webpage.... New website does not have this photo. Or I have it from this website (the official website of the party of Tymoshenko and former party of Korolevska); but that website does not have the picture anymore also.... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 15:19, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

www.byut.info was the English version of http://byut.com.ua if I remember corectly... www.byut.info is now defunct. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 15:23, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Anne of Kiev

Anne of Kiev Also see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJKfb9I_A1s :) --93.138.142.127 (talk) 06:22, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Interesting movie; thanks. Now we just need to get current Ukraine more European.... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 18:32, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Where tags should be placed in articles

The following article has some suggestions where editors should place tags in articles: Wikipedia:Template messages/Disputes. The idea (as I understand it) is so that people trying to fix the article know what part or parts of the articles have problems. That way they fix the problem parts (or throw them down the well).--Toddy1 (talk) 09:39, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the info but I am currently downscaling my contributions to Wikipedia; I am just not in the mood these days to get so much involved. It has taken a lot of time and mental energy to convince people of my reasons for my edits (in some cases I am puzzled why I have to explain them…) lately. And I want some rest in my head right now. It is nothing personal (against you or anybody); I just want to spend time on other things then Wikipedia right now. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 18:35, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

As you will have noticed from some of my posts, I too find some of the editors exceedingly frustrating. Regarding the link you posted: the last time I wrote a comment on that topic I got a DIGWUREN warning, which said that if I ever posted on that topic again I would be permanently blocked.--Toddy1 (talk) 19:14, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

By the way, if you want to understand some of the people who annoy you, read a book called "I led 3 lives" by Herbert Philbrick. It was published before either of us were born, but is available second hand on Amazon. (There was a TV series loosely based on the book - but as with many TV series, things stray from the facts.) Do not worry about the claimed ideology, what matters are the behaviours.--Toddy1 (talk) 19:23, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

These people seem not to get what Wikipedia is all about. It is a tool to inform readers. Yet most Eastern European editors (and Eastern European Diaspora editors) use Wikipedia as a tool to convince people of there personal views. YES I KNOW THAT THERE ARE HARDLY DECENT UKRAINIAN POLITICIANS OUT THERE! But as an editor I try not to let my feelings influence me. Thanks for the book-tip! — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 21:14, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Mazhory

Yulia - do you speak either Russian or Ukrainian? Mazhory is slang; it means rich people. You seem to think it means criminals. It does not. It is true that some Mazhory are criminals. Please be more precise in your use of language.--Toddy1 (talk) 21:58, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

It does not matter what I think it means... It matters what sources say it means.... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 22:01, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

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Your email

ya nadegnij i bezobidnij--Toddy1 (talk) 20:17, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Conservatives in Ukraine

A problem for me is that what I know comes from talking to people. Please will you read "Ukraine: The Search for a National Identity", by Sharon L. Wolchik page 14.[5] You will understand then why the party that expresses the will of the people of eastern and central Ukraine are the conservatives.--Toddy1 (talk) 19:50, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

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Multimedia about Yulia Tymoshenko

Hi, Yulia Romero. Someone Garik 11 - the second time removes the "Multimedia about Yulia Tymoshenko" (article "Timoshenko"). He persuaded that it is impossible to link to YouTube. In my opinion, it is not true interprets "the rules of Wikipedia."

It would be nice to put some protection (one month) to the article "Tymoshenko". --Vles1 (talk) 17:03, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Sounds like shooting at a mosquito with an Howitzer... Better to ask for reasons of editing on a talkpage before asking for help.... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 21:14, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

I will not spend much time on Wikipedia anymore

		9 May 2012 Declaration
		(As you may have noticed) the last weeks I have reduced the time I am spending on Wikipedia significantly. Since I feel (by now) I have learned almost all I can from editing on Wikipedia (about the subjects I edited on and in working with others), I will not significantly increase my time on Wikipedia in the near future. I will occasionally pop-up now and then (and thus will be a WikiOgre) from now on. Thanks to all for all the life lessons I have learned on Wikipedia; but I feel it is time for me to explore other hobbies and time wasters ! — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 22:07, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

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Entry for Taras Shevchenko (en) in desperate need of blue pencilling!

Hi! I posted this comment on the talk page of the Shevchenko entry earlier this month, but still have had no responses. As you appear to be a very active Wikimedian, I'm hoping that you'll be able to help out.

The note I left there simply stated:

"I started to clean this entry up, only to discover that it is in desperate need of some serious reworking simply to give it a semblance of coherency in the English language.

My apologies for sounding brusque about the state of this entry but, considering that Shevchenko is a pivotal presence in the history of the Ukrainian language and Ukrainian identity, it reads as an amateurish cleanup of a bot translation. Not only is it awkward to read, but it doesn't even retain any tense, merely jumping from the past to the present tense from one sentence to the next.

I don't want to tread on anyone's toes by overhauling it without consulting with anyone, but it truly is in a shocking state. Could someone please direct me to a senior editor who could assist me with this process?"

I see that you made a declaration in May, so will fully understand if you opt out of assisting me. Nevertheless, I'm still pinning my hopes on hearing from you on this matter soon, Yulia! Iryna Harpy (talk) 05:35, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

A slight misunderstanding as to the kind of assistance I need

Thank you for responding to my query so quickly, Yulia! I'm actually the one who wants to clean up the entire entry & fix spelling mistakes, grammatical error, etc. on the Taras Shevchenko page in English! What I need is to find an experienced editor (I can communicate in Ukrainian if necessary) to help me with sorting out information which doesn't cite sources. There have been quite a few changes made by people who haven't been active in Wikipedia for years.

I just need to establish what is considered to be highly relevant and what is not, so I'd appreciate it if you could point me in the direction of someone who is active and concerned with Ukrainian matters in Wikipedia/en.

Enjoy breaking free of the crazy agendas and politics behind the scenes of Wiki! Iryna Harpy (talk) 02:05, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

No name pops up... Especialy since Taras Shevchenko('s Wikipedia page in English) seems not to get that much atention... I would say BE BOLD and just go for it. I myself am not very much interested in the man.... I do believe that (current) Ukrainians should not look so much back into the past and focus more on the future. Hence I lost most of my interest in historical Ukrainian figures... But of course it would be nice if Wiki-pages about them where in good shape!

What you could do is go to the Ukrainian Taras Shevchenko Wikipedia page (just click on this blue link) & ask your question (in Ukrainian) there. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 22:28, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, again, for the advice, Yulia. Personally, Shevchenko is no grand passion for me but, given that there is an English entry, I'd envisage that the only ones who would actually be interested in it would be diasporic Ukrainians from the 2nd, 3rd, etc. generations who can't actually speak any Ukrainian (or Russian). I don't intend to do anything revolutionary with it, just make it coherent. At the moment it reads as 'горох з капустою'. I have no doubt that I'll find out whether anyone is up in arms about my clean-up soon enough! Be bold it is, then. Cheers! Iryna Harpy (talk) 23:06, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Good luck ! — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 02:50, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

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Moving the discussion to your page due to the fact I think I might have a dynamic IP so the discussion might be lost

Yelizaveta Bryzghina is not "Russian"

People born in Ukraine out of (ethnic) Russian parents are (on English Wikipedia at least) not "Russians" but "Ukrainian people of Russian descent". Hence I corrected your edit at Yelizaveta Bryzghina. By the way; her father Viktor Bryzhin was born in Ukraine. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 23:36, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

By the way 2: having a "Russian name" and being born in an "ethnically Russian region" (as a territorial nationalist I do not believe in such things anyway... but it anyways) proofs nothing... Wikipedia relies on Proof and Verifiability. Just having a Russian name proofs nothing... I know a man who's (100% ethnic) German grandfather stole the name tag of a Polish soldier while he (the German) was imprisoned in Siberia... (he thought it would improve his changes of surviving and he was right) and back in Germany the man "kept" that Polish name. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 23:50, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

But the story you tell is extreme, do you agree that if a person is born in Smolensk and his surname is Ivanov it's 99.99% that he's Russian? Same thing here, some regions in Ukraine have a Russian majority because historically they were Russia. Now in this case one of her parents came from Russia, which makes it even easier. 94.3.21.223 (talk) 23:53, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

NO! The days that the people in these "regions in Ukraine with a ethnic Russian majority" felt like they where Russians are long gone by the way. Go to them and you will find that out... as I have did this summer. As I said before I am a territorial nationalist; hence if somebody does not has Russian citizenship they are 100% not Russian to me. So even if Mr Ivanov has 2 ethnic Russian parents but no Russian citizenship I do not see him as Russian anyway. If he had 2 parents who where ethnic Chinese and Mr. Ivanov has Russian citizenship I see him as 100% Russian. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 00:03, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

YES! Ethnicity has nothing to do with how you feel, for that you have nationality. If someone has or doesnt have Russian citizenship it has nothing to do with their ethnicity. I'm sure it's fascinating what you did this summer, but it has nothing to do with the difference between nationality and ethnicity. It's also interesting how you see territority and how you see or don't see a 100% Russian, but those are your opinions, while dealing with the delicate identity topic we have to know the difference between nationality and ethnicity. For example Taras Shevchenko lived for many years and died in Russia, does it change the fact he is ethnically Ukrainian? No. Italian Americans, are they just Americans? They might see themselves as so, but ethnically they are Italian.

If Mr Ivanov has two Chinese parents and we know about it, will you claim that he is ethnically Russian? By nationality he is, but ethnicity is a different story. 94.3.21.223 (talk) 00:09, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

PS if they feel so Ukrainian how will you explain the research that said they perfer a Russian over a person from west Ukraine? Or who they vote for? That's why "my friend from Crimea" can not be used as a serious reference on Wikipedia. You need to look at the global trends, and not come to the topic of identities from a nationalistic point of view of how you want it to be but analyze what they really are, and I remind you that people have various identities. Ethnically Russian and Ukrainian by nationality don't contrast each other. Viewing your nationality as more important then ethnicity is your personal choice, but it's not deleting the other identity (well, you can change a nationality but not ethnicity). 94.3.21.223 (talk) 00:12, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

For me: nationality=ethnicity. That's what territorial nationalism is all about. If everybody thought like me (on this) the world would be a much better place. We all would have much more time too... File:Navy.gif. Anyways as I edit per Wikipedia:Consensus I would call Mr Ivanov in a Wikipedia article "Russian of Chinese descent". At the end of the day on Wikipedia your personal feelings should be ignored sometimes.... As an editor on Wikipedia for years I have been a part in many "nationality/ethnicity" discussions and they always seem to end in frustration felt by me... Hence I try to avoid taking part in them most of the time. There are no "100% ethnic pure 1 ethnicity" people anyhow... People in Donbass vote for Viktor Yanukovych because he is from Donbass; you have no proof they vote for him because of his ethnicity... Besides he is also of Polish, and Belarusian descent.... Claiming his voting base has something to do with the difference between nationality and ethnicity is a stretch. Let alone it can be used as an example how people feel... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 00:34, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

By the way 3: 17.3% of the total population of Ukraine identified themselves as ethnic Russians In the 2001 Ukrainian census (falling from 22.1% in 1989). Mr. Yanukovych did not win any elections because of this 17.3%. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 01:25, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes but don't forget that while Crimea is almost entirely ethnically Russian, the people in Donbass are Russians but also Ukrainians who speak Russians and what unites them is the language and culture. In a survey conducted among Ukrainians the Ukrainians in the east said they perfer to host a Russian in their home rather a Ukranian from west Ukraine. It makes sense because they have much more incommon in cultures with the Russians from their region. I didn't say they vote for Yanukovich because of ethnicity but because of what language he speaks. I always said it would actually make sense if Donbass and Crimea would declair independence from Ukraine and found a new country (not joining Russia), it would be good fot the east and west. The reason for curruption in Ukraine is because people in the east vote for the thief Yanukovich and the people in the west vote fot the thief Tymoschenko (searched by the Interpol until the US saw she represents their interests) and the puppet with Nazi sympaties Yuschenko. There is one guy who is honest, Moroz, but the west will not vote for him because he's not a nationalist and the east will not vote for him because the status of Russian is not on the top of his priorities (though he does say every region should decide for themselves what the status of Russia is, the same thing as the part of regions says). If Donbass and Crimea will become a separate state the language issue will not be relevant anymore because everyone will speak Russian and no one is threatening on it, and then no one will vote for this thing called party of regions (in fact, it will be the Socialist Democrats against the Communist, and those guys are actually able to collaborate because they have a common ground, like happened in Italy for example). 94.0.160.176 (talk) 08:12, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

But that's the thing, it's not a metter of debate. Ethnicity and nationality are existing terms and they are not the same, you don't become an ethnic Han Chinese from getting chinese citizenship. Ethnicity is a metter of DNA, while nationality a matter of culture or choise or politics. Russian of Chinese descent is the right definition, but descent here basically stands for ethnicity. People in Donbass don't vote for him because he is from Donbass, otherwise why do people from Crimea vote for him? They vote for him because the part of regions represents the interests of the Russian regions of Ukraine. To be fair, if people in Ukraine would have a brain they would not vote for the thiefs Yanukovich and Tymoschenko and for the puppet and fan of Nazi collaborators like Yushenko but they would vote for Moroz (the only guy who actually worked for the people as part of the coallition and left it when nothing else could be done). 94.0.160.176 (talk) 08:12, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Ethnicity and nationality and language and culture are existing terms and they are not the same. You don't become an ethnic Russian because you speak Russian in daily life and you vote for a Russian speaker...You don't share a culture because you share a language.... The people from South-Africa, Ireland, Canada, USA, Jamaica, Nigeria etc. all speak English and they don't share a culture. I was in Ukraine, I spoke to Russian speaking Ukrainians and they considered them selfs Ukrainians. If you choose to not to believe me that is in the grant scheme of the world not a big problem. But you still would be wrong... Your theories to divide Ukraine by voting patterns looks to me to be insufficient since 60% of Crimea did not vote at all in the last election... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 14:16, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

I have the feeling you don't seem to understand that Wikipedia is not facebook.... Wikipedia is not the place to discuss if Ukrainian politicians are "OK" or "Russian" but to inform people about them. If you love to discuss Ukrainian politics with others you can start doing this on Facebook.... Since this is not Facebook I will not respond to your personal opinions of Ukrainian politicians nor your voting advice or anything I feel that is not related to Wikipedia(-editing). — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 15:45, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Someone is touchy. I'm sure if people want to have a discussion on each others talk pages it's considered normal (as long as it's not done on article talk pages), if you don't want to talk to me about politics that's a different case and we don't have to do it, I thought you might be interested in such a discussion. 94.0.160.176 (talk) 16:28, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

I have a feeling you didn't understand what I wrote or just didn't read it. I never said ethnicity is a matter of language and culture, ethnicity is a metter of genetics. What I did say was that the Russians in east Ukraine and Ukrainians in east Ukraine vote for the same politicians because they have the same culture, and what unites them is the Russian culture. If you choose to ignore those facts it's your choice, but you can't argue with the fact a survey showed that Ukrainians in east Ukraine see themselves closer to Russians rather then Ukrainians from west Ukraine. What is culture if not language and culture? If people live in the same region and are exposed to the same reality and speak the same language they will have the same culture. Do Irish people who lived many generations in New York and Italian people who lived many generations in New York have the same culture? Yes, because they grew up in the American culture, spoke the same language, watched the same shows, listened to the same music and watched the same movies. Same thing among Russians and Ukrainians in Donetsk and Luhansk! They have the same culture, and they see themselves this way (which was shown in many researches), and you can deny it as much as you want because you claim you have a friend somewhere there who said something else, but I tend to believe those researches and when I visited Donbass (many times) I saw it to. I'm not even talking about Crimea because most there are Russians anyway, talking about Ukrainians in Crimea is insignificant. I'm talking about Donbass when it's around 50%-50% Russians-Ukrainians. 94.0.160.176 (talk) 16:28, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

To me this discussion seem to have nothing to do with Wikipedia (anymore). Hence I will not continue it. Once again: If you are interested in discussion things: Wikipedia is to inform people about persons/things, not to discuss them (there are other platforms to do so on the internet). I am not interested in discussing Ukraine/Ukrainian politics with people I know nothing about anyways. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 16:44, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Hey thank you )

...for standing up for me! --Garik 11 (talk) 21:05, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Your welcome! Editing Wikipedia today felt to me more like playing Ultima VII: The Black Gate then it usually does... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 21:49, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

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Orphaned non-free media (File:TVi (Ukrainian TV) logo.png)

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Harry Redknapp

You have made some sort of mistake in the source here and it is not working properly. You may wish to look over the edit page to see what has gone wrong. Britmax (talk) 18:46, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

No mistake . I was waiting for AnomieBOT to do its work (as it did so here with the same reference). I use AnomieBOT quite a lot since it is easier to copy just the name of the reference then copying the whole reference . But thanks for your concern and commitment. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 18:59, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

It just worked again! — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 19:05, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for that. Britmax (talk) 19:52, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Your welcome. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 19:55, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Links

Wikipedia:External links says "Wikipedia articles may include links to web pages outside Wikipedia (external links), but they should not normally be used in the body of an article." This goes against [http://bp.ubr.ua/profile/miroshnichenko-igor-mihailovich Igor Miroshnichenko].

Help:Interlanguage links#Inline interlanguage links says: "If it is desired to include, in some article, a link to a topic that is not covered by an article on the English Wikipedia but which does have a page in another language version of Wikipedia, then there are two possible approaches:

• Use a red link pointing to a possible future article on the English Wikipedia;
• Use an interlanguage link pointing to the existing article on the other Wikipedia, as described in the next section.

The advantage of the first approach is that the red link informs all readers that the page does not exist locally, thus inviting its creation, and avoiding directing readers to a page that many of them will not understand. The disadvantage is that it conceals the existence of the foreign-language page, which might in itself be of interest to many readers, and may also be valuable to anyone wishing to create a corresponding English Wikipedia article." This supports the use of [[:uk:Мірошниченко Ігор Михайлович|Igor Miroshnichenko]] and Professor [[:uk:Фельдман Олександр Борисович|Alexander Ponomarev]].

And yes, I did know this, but it takes time and patience to find the relevant parts of WP:MOS to quote to you. Happy New Year.--Toddy1 (talk) 16:58, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Hmmmm... but bp.ubr.ua/profile/miroshnichenko-igor-mihailovich contains more info and more interesting info about him then uk:Мірошниченко Ігор Михайлович.... So I say: lets leave link of bp.ubr.ua/profile per Wikipedia:What "Ignore all rules" means. Thanks for your concern and commitment. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 17:16, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Then why do you not combine the information from both to create a new article about him?--Toddy1 (talk) 18:24, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Maybe in future, but today I don't feel like doing that ... I don't mind if you do it. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 18:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Well Svoboda has removed your inline link, so I have restored the two MOS-compliant interwiki links.--Toddy1 (talk) 09:41, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Edit tests on Territorial nationalism

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TVi

Agreed on speculation though I was thinking more just time-line. Just as well out. I did go back there with a couple of other items from the piece. And next time I ref. elections I'll link and hopefully the ref. will be more durable than it was this time – it did cross my mind "maybe there's an [elections] article" but I let the thought get away. On. Thanks and cheers. Swliv (talk) 21:29, 31 December 2012 (UTC)