User talk:Yngtchie

Morten Harket's vocal range

Greetings. I notice you recently removed a cited claim that Morten Harket has a 5 octave vocal range. If you don't mind my asking, why? Do you doubt that the cited sources include that claim? Do you consider those publications inherently unsuitable for citation purposes? Or do you think that the information, though published by possibly "reliable sources", is probably an exaggeration? I believe that the publications in question did make that claim, but I'm still not entirely convinced it's true: that's why I stated in the article that his range is reported to span 5 octaves rather than stating as fact that it does. An earlier version of the article said that he "is known" to have a 5-octave range: this was uncited at the time, so I added a tag and eventually deleted the claim after some time passed with no citation added. I mentioned this on the talk page, where other editors later sourced the information. Do you think the sources may still be useful to support the fact that he does have a good range, even though it may be exaggerated?

All the best,

Contains Mild Peril (talk) 19:50, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

I haven't used this feature before, so pardon me if I'm doing it wrong.

I removed it because it was such an outlandish claim, that I felt that its inclusion on Harket's Wiki page would do his reputation more harm than good. It is inaccurate, his true range would be closer to three or three and a half octaves. It's a very effective range, no doubt, especially tonally, as evidenced by songs such as "A Kind of Christmas Card".

My take on this is that the proof is in the pudding, and that all the available Harket recordings show what an amazing singer he is. The claims are not accurate, which is why I believe that they do not belong on this Wikipedia page.

Yngtchie (talk) 23:21, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

To be honest with you my friend, I think the five-octave-range claim is bullshit too. As I mentioned on the article talk page, his recorded range covers three and a third octaves that I'm aware of (C#2-F5), so it could be slightly more (your guess of three to three and a half octaves appears accurate). It's not entirely beyond the bounds of credibility that a guy with a three and a third octave singing range could have a five octave total range if he were to count any vocal sound he can make whether it's of any musical use or not: however I don't think this applies in Morten Harket's case. I read on a forum that he himself said in an interview that he didn't know his exact range, so if he doesn't know I don't see how the author of that book could.
Unfortunately, "I read on a forum that he said in an interview..." doesn't count for anything on Wikipedia, nor does original research and/ or opinion (e.g. "if I haven't heard him use more than three and a half octaves I think it's unlikely his range extends to five"): the threshold for inclusion is verifiability, not truth. When I removed the long-uncited claim a while ago I wasn't really expecting anyone to come up with a citable source, but since not just one but two sources were quoted on the talk page, I thought the best course of action was to put it back in the article myself before anyone else did, in case another editor wrote it as though Morten himself had made the dubious claim. I'm perfectly happy to leave it out of the article, but if someone else puts it back in later I'm not sure "the sources are obviously wrong" would be considered a valid argument to remove it.
I've come across a few highly questionable claims about singers' ranges in tabloids, and I don't think the average reader realises just how rare a genuine five-octave singing range actually is.
Here's a real one (Von Smith) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5v-RTCZjhU
Vitas is alleged to have got into the Guinness Book of Records for having a five-octave range, but I don't think anybody's tried to put that in his Wikipedia article yet. I don't think five octaves would have been a male vocal range world record recently enough for Vitas to have held the record. If the reports specified the year I would check next time I'm in the library but I'm not going to search through piles of Guinness Books of Records! Contains Mild Peril (talk) 09:44, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

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