User talk:Wonderfl/Archive/2014

Speedy deletion declined: Apparat (software)

Hello Wonderfl. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of Apparat (software), a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: The article makes a credible assertion of importance or significance, sufficient to pass A7. Thank you. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 10:17, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Why would you decline this? It makes no assertion whatsoever. The app is handmade by a single guy and nobody uses it. Not a single ref or mention except a blog post? C'mon, I don't see any "credible assertion of importance". Please reconsider or specify the exact source of the assertion. I thought notability was directly connected to the refs you had for a given subject. Since Apparat has no refs and no mentions anywhere except for a few blog posts around the web, shouldn't it be deleted? Thank you -- Wonderfl ^(reply) 10:51, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

A7 isn't about notability but rather a claim of significance. Changing my comment after I had a look. I used the wrong rationale from the drop down menu, I don't think this piece of software would be covered under the web content part of A7 so isn't liable to be deleted per A7. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 04:39, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Right, I figured. So I marked it "prod". Thanks for your comment -- Wonderfl ^(reply) 05:37, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

• I've declined it as well since there's just enough assertion to where it'd really be best to go through AfD to get more of a consensus. I've transferred it to User:Jpbowen's userspace, but he is free to move it back if he wants and from there it's kind of up to what the two of you decide. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 09:07, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Adobe AIR

I reverted your recent edits to Adobe AIR. I wanted to explain in more detail on your user talk so you knew why:

• The paragraphs you moved into "architecture" don't belong in architecture. Architecture should discuss the way AIR is designed/works, not what you can do with it
• Renaming the "Frameworks" section to "ActionScript" is nonsensical
• The sentence "Applications built without the framework depend entirely on the developer's own skills and artistic abilities, and are commonly known as "pure ActionScript" projects" is extremely unencyclopedic and defines a neologism with no source. Perhaps you are proud to make apps without AIR, but it doesn't belong in the article. Furthermore, the claim is nonsense - AIR does not include any features that reduce the "artistic abilities" required of the developer, and much of the functionality in AIR is not reproducible in vanilla AS3 so "skills" have nothing to do with it.
• I disagree with your changes in wording under "AIR Native Extensions", particularly the change to "not yet available", which falsely implies that Adobe is planning to implement every feature from every ANE at some point in the future.

Some guy (talk) 07:57, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying your edits and AGF, etc. However, please see Talk:Adobe_Integrated_Runtime#Wonderfl.2FSomeguy

Agree with some of your changes, disagree with others so have made improvements in the article to reflect.

• Some of your points are fine, accepted. However you put too much stress on ANEs and AIR Gamepad when they are both minor features of the platform. Updated.
• And about "pure actionscript" being non-encyclopedic, perhaps you should just do a little google search before making such claims. Refs added.
• "Features" or "Architecture", whatever you call the section doesn't matter. The contents are similar so they should be merged. Edited.
• No reason to remove Scout. A new and first-class tool built by Adobe specifically for FP and AIR. Re-added.
• My section on "ActionScript" provides a complete overview on the methods to build an AIR app, with pure AS or with the Flex framework. They are both completely different methods and both have pros/cons. Learn up on the subject if you are unaware of these styles. Some components can only be used in pure AS projects, and some only work in Flex projects. Reworded and reorganized.
• Reason for "Development" section being called "ActionScript": AS and JS are two contradictory methods to develop applications for AIR. Therefore most of the info in the development section like 3D and ANEs apply only to AS3 since such functions can only be accessed from AS3. See if the new organization is easier to understand.
• Agree about the "artistic abilities" sentence. Preserved.
• Agree about "not yet available". Preserved.
• Rewrote the "Features" section intro to remove marketing-speak.
• In response to : "Perhaps you are proud to make apps without AIR". I agree that section was worded in a confusing manner. Pure AS3 apps actually mean apps that are built without the Flex framework, not without AIR. Restructured under the "ActionScript applications" section.

You are welcome to improve the wording and content, but please don't revert entire sections due to minor issues/defects.

Wonderfl ^(reply) 08:31, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

• It's a stretch to call an SDK software. You are placing way too much emphasis on discussing Flex, which is a separate project. AIR is not merely an add-on for Flex, it is a separate framework but there is an SDK that combines both of them in addition to the standalone AIR SDK.
• There is no need to explain that users can edit ActionScript in a text editor. That is possible with every programming language, and furthermore is a property of AS3, not AIR
• There is no need for the "ActionScript" header. It is a poorly chosen title for a header (as it is also about Flex), the way the section is written falsely implies users have to choose between Flex and AS3 (AS3 is still used for writing functional code in Flex applications) and the section repeats information that is already covered elsewhere.
• The publishing section was mostly redundant with the availability section directly after; I removed most of the publishing section and merged the table into the availability section.

Some guy (talk) 12:11, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

I'm fine with the SDK/software change, and you've re-written the SDKs section which is fine. Just add refs. And links.

The section does not falsely imply that Flex apps cannot contain AS3. The section starts with "ActionScript-based Adobe AIR applications". Anyways, I let it be deleted but brought back some of the old "pure AS3" stuff into the article.

The publishing section was not totally redundant. I re-added some of the points, specifically relating to the Captive Runtime.

Although some of your changes are annoying, you seem to be highly proficient and non-argumentative. And most of your points are valid. I've had much worse arguments on WP. Thanks for your cooperation and whatever else you bring to the table.

BTW, something must be done about the JS section. Its a total misfit. I kept adding "ActionScript" as a category heading simply to differentiate between JS and AS development for AIR. Any ideas?

Wonderfl ^(reply) 12:47, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

New messages at my talk page. I moved the AIR/Flex discussion there since it was no longer relevant on the AIR page, it was incorrect, and getting a bit personal. Wonderfl ^(reply) 18:40, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for being quite gentle so far. It was pretty rough at the start but I'm happy we could come to an amicable solution. I hate 3RR and edit wars. Believe me I've had dozens of horrid arguments on WP and even have even written "Guides" that aim to explain such behaviour in the WP community. Thanks -- Wonderfl ^(reply) 18:40, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Sure, no problem. Sorry if I was rude yesterday, I have been under a lot of stress lately. I've had some really bad arguments on here as well.

I learned some things too, I was not very familiar with building AIR for desktops and didn't know there were desktop ANEs or some of the native Windows functionality (e.g. menu bars) that you can accomplish with AIR for Windows.

I have not worked with Flex much. I usually prefer manually coding my UI. I also remember when I first got started with AIR, I was trying to figure out what Flex was and downloaded some sample Flex apps. They were all horribly broken, even Adobe's official sample app. I decided Flex was an unstable and unreliable platform and never looked into it again. Some guy (talk) 01:12, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the follow up. My experience with AIR is mostly with desktop apps, and a few tests/prototypes done for mobile. I've built both desktop and mobile ANEs and its quite a lot of fun once you get the hang of it. It allows you to access any C++(Windows) / Java(Android) library from Flash, something once deemed impossible. People have used it to create all kinds of amazing things. I clarified with some friends about the Flex/AIR SDK confusion, and it appears that before a certain AIR SDK version you needed to merge the 2 SDKs, but after the same version you no longer need to do it. I'm just getting more details from experts. Cheers! Wonderfl ^(reply) 07:08, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

AIR SDK and Flex SDK

Just to clarify a misconception you seem to have. AIR SDK is not the main SDK, actually the Flex SDK is used to compile AIR apps. AIR SDK only adds AIR packaging & debugging capabilities. The Flex SDK is a misnomer. It has nothing to do with Flex. It can be used to compile pure AS3 apps. The Flex framework is included in the Flex SDK but its not the main part. See this SO question which clarifies the role of Flex vs AIR SDK. Please update your SDK section accordingly. You have a style of your own and its unlikely I'm gonna be able to rewrite it in your style.

• MXMLC (the main .AS -> SWF compiler) is in the Flex SDK
• ADL (Air Debug Launcher, the main AIR app debugger) is in the AIR SDK

So as you can see they must both be combined in order to have a useful SDK to build AIR apps with. I speak from experience. Try it out yourself if you still don't get it. There is simply NO way to compile AIR apps with the AIR SDK alone. Wonderfl ^(reply) 13:31, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

I compile AIR apps with just the AIR SDK every day and have published over half a dozen mobile apps using just the AIR SDK. I am not sure where you got the idea it is useless on its own, but you are wrong. Think about it from a common-sense perspective - why would Adobe distribute the AIR SDK by itself if you couldn't do anything with it? Some guy (talk) 14:33, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

That's interesting. I never knew that was possible. Learn something new every day. BTW do you have any experience with the Flex SDK? Or is it just with the AIR SDK? Wonderfl ^(reply) 18:35, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Mbed microcontroller

Sorry for undoing your edit (which probably sent you a notification). I was only going to redirect, but my STiki finger was a bit too quick. Widr (talk) 14:55, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Thank you! I never have my (usually high-quality) edits reverted with no reason, and I was surprised and wondered what the matter was. I wrote an irate message on your talk page but deleted it quickly after I realised you replaced the old content with a redirect. No harm done. All's well that ends well! Good day! -- Wonderfl ^(reply) 15:04, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Sidebar navigation for Flash

I would like some help in building a sidebar navigation panel like the one on this page or this page, for the top-level articles on Flash ("part of a series of articles on Flash"):

• Adobe Flash, Flash Player, Flash Pro, Flex Builder, (apache) Flex and AIR.
• Should more articles be included? Flash has a whole bunch of related topics

Any idea how I can get started doing this and what is the [in]formal procedure if any?

Wonderfl ^(reply) 14:03, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Hello, Wonderfl

Because {{Adobe Flash}} is already in place, creating a sidebar at this stage is unwise. Sidebar cannot handle this immense number of links. (Oh, and Flex Builder is not called Flash Builder. It is already on {{Adobe Flash}}.) Basically, you will need to implement all the links on {{Adobe Flash}}, except the width of the box would be tiny. You can probably imagine how prohibitively tall the sidebar is going to be.

But, if you want to know how to made sidebars in general, please see {{sidebar}}.

Best regards,

Codename Lisa (talk) 12:00, 16 December 2014 (UTC)