User talk:Wladuk

The right citation

OK, if I've understood you, the point is that the sentence is wrongly cited. What should the citation be? If it's one of the named sources already in the article, we can simply reuse it... Chiswick Chap (talk) 12:16, 22 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

No, sorry, I think I haven't explained myself clear. The sentence "Those papers were mostly ignored until they were cited[15] by Martin Nowak, Corina Tarnita, and E. O. Wilson" is incorrect (they did not cite those earlier papers). In short, the history of this episode goes like that: Alonso 1998 and Alonso & Schuck-Paim 2002 papers formulated the criticism to kin selection theory as a whole. Several years later, in a series of papers, E.O.Wilson (a former strong promoter of KS, and who had knowledge of those earlier papers - not less because it was the editor of one of them) put forward basically the same set of criticisms. Oddly enough -and contrary to the spirit and ethics in science- E.O.Wilson and collaborators did not give any credits to those earlier works. If there is any doubt about this, the chronological order and the content of the papers speak by themselves. Please let me know if the reasons why that sentence is incorrect is clear now. A possible alternative version could be "Those ideas were mostly ignored until they were put forward again in a series of papers by E. O. Wilson and others" Wladuk (talk) 15:55, 22 June 2016 (UTC)Wladuk[reply]

OK, we could use that alternative version, but we'd need to cite the series of papers by E. O. Wilson and others involved, AND we'd need to cite the claim of that whole sentence, that the ideas were mostly ignored, as otherwise it's just an editor's opinion, which Wikipedia sees as WP:OR, which is forbidden. So, what we need is not just words but supporting evidence for every claim - in that, Wikipedia is extremely scientific. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:31, 22 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Wilson's papers are: (1) Wilson, EO, and B Hölldobler. 2005. Eusociality: origin and consequences. PNAS 102:13367-13371; (2) Wilson, E.O. 2008. One giant leap: how insects acheived altruism and colonial life. Bioscience 58:17-25.; (3) Nowak, M. A., C. E. Tarnita, and E. O. Wilson. 2010. The evolution of eusociality. Nature 466:1057-1062. As supporting evidence, constitute indisputable facts that (a) the papers (i) Alonso 1998 & (ii) Alonso & Schuck-Paim 2002 criticize the theory of kin selection (see for instance this source http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/687870?journalCode=phos&) (b) chronologically both papers precede any of E.O.Wilson's articles which criticize kin selection - in fact he was one of the biggest defenders of KS theory at that time, (c) none of those papers (i or ii) were cited by any of E.O.Wilson's papers that criticizes kin selection, (d) E.O.Wilson had deep knowledge of at least one (ii) of those previous papers and recognized its scientific merit and originality, as he was its editor in charge and the responsible for the acceptance of the paper (as stated in the paper itself, below the name of the authors). If you conclude those are not sufficient evidence, then please reformulate the sentence as you please. But please don't write that "Those papers were mostly ignored until they were cited by Martin Nowak, Corina Tarnita, and E. O. Wilson" because it is a easily verifiable fact that none of E.O.Wilson papers cited those papers (which is, in fact, a case of "using of others' words and ideas without giving credit", constituting "research misconduct" under the Guide to Responsible Conduct in Research of The National Academies http://www.nap.edu/read/12192/chapter/6) Wladuk (talk) 11:16, 23 June 2016 (UTC)Wladuk[reply]

OK, I'll add those. I didn't write the original text that you don't like, by the way! Chiswick Chap (talk) 11:42, 23 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

:-) I checked there and it looks great. Thanks a lot Chiswick Chap ! 10:28, 24 June 2016 (UTC)Wladuk

Welcome!

Hello, Wladuk, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few links to pages you might find helpful:

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I notice you have only edited one article, Kin selection, and that your username resembles that of the author of two of the papers that you cited. Please be aware that if you have a specific personal point of view on that subject, you must not allow that to influence your editing, however strongly you may feel on certain issues. Further, if you have any professional interest in the subject, please be aware that you would in that case have what Wikipedia policy considers to be a conflict of interest between your professional life and as a Wikipedia editor. If either of these things apply to you, please read the policies carefully and consider making a declaration of your position on your user page. If not, sorry to trouble you.

Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask for help on your talk page, and a volunteer should respond shortly. Again, welcome! Chiswick Chap (talk) 06:40, 22 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]