User talk:WinsnerB1942
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WinsnerB1942, you are invited to the Teahouse
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Orphaned non-free media (File:A King's Ransom - Sunny Single Cover - Featuring Jim DeBerry.jpeg)
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Orphaned non-free media (File:A King's Ransom Press Shot 2005.jpg)
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Orphaned non-free media (File:Next to Never Press Shot - 2002 featuring Jim DeBerry.jpg)
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Orphaned non-free media (File:Jim DeBerry 2011- from aqua pool dealer website.jpg)
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Non-free rationale for File:Jim DeBerry 2012.jpg
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Sfan00 - I have since offered better specification. thank you Winsnerb1942(talk) 9 September 2012
Your submission at Articles for creation
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Your submission at Articles for creation
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the page has been cleaned up and ready to be resubmitted
Your submission at Articles for creation
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Your submission at Articles for creation
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Your submission at Articles for creation
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Your submission at Articles for creation
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Rcsprinter (chat) @ 22:47, 12 October 2012 (UTC)Nomination of Jim DeBerry for deletion
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A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Jim DeBerry is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jim DeBerry until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Student7 (talk) 20:40, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
Reply from Bjelleklang
[edit]Hi! I've worked as a sound tech for more than ten years, and from my experience touring takes time and effort. Dave Matthews Band just to give an example, have toured since around 1991 and only played around 1900 known shows[1], and they do this on a full time basis. For Jim DeBerry to do 2400 shows _and_ to learn how to play starting in 1991, he must have done around 160 shows per year, each year between 1992 and 2007 when his last band split. And this does not mean that he was only busy doing concerts 160 days per year, but also that he most likely spent a large number of days traveling as well, considering that he played all over North America as one source put it.
And of course; not all executives need to clock in every day. But I really don't believe that someone that young, with that little experience from a managerial position can start as a manager without having to do a lot of work to prove their worth to the company. If I recall correctly, several of the sources mention that he worked hard to build a customer base for the various companies he worked for in Florida and Georgia, and for me this just doesn't add up if he also spent that much time on the road. As far as I can tell he's got almost no mainstream press attention, and if he really was notable for either music or the pool business this wouldn't be missing.
I'm sorry that you spent that much time and effort on this story, but unless more mainstream sources can be provided (as others have commented) I don't think this person is notable. As for "coercing," I merely asked another editor if he cared to share his thoughts on the matter if he had any, as he might have noticed something I hadn't. I'm not trying to bite your head off, but if something isn't notable, no amount of editing will make it notable, and I believe it's better to get rid of an article before people spend too much time to no avail.
It's great that you want to stay on! And if you want some more editing experience without risking an AfD, helping out with Category:Articles needing cleanup is a great way to get the hang of it! Cheers! Bjelleklang - talk 06:52, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
Reply to Bjelleklang
[edit]I want to make a couple of points. 1.) It does not meet the criteria for deletion 2.) The as original nominator made unfounded claims, thus deletion by assumption is not criteria. 3.) On the User_talk:Bjelleklang talk page I attempt to address the user, and in my opinion he kept jockeying others opinion, i left the person a comment on his talk page, no answer but rather continuing to attempt to slight others. In fact this user brings up the point i’m not the originator of the article as another has attempted to create it before thus debunked the initial claim of deletion. Below is the comment to the user Why did you add an explanation point on delete? Your “basis of sounded too good to be true is without merit”. The statement regarding “2400 over a 15 year period” is off base. Let me debate your counter claim, Most entertainers who tour, do not tour non stop 24/7. We are talking about 40% of the time over a 15 year period. If you think about it for most entertainers this is normal. A lot of entertainers while youths doing school typically have tutors, home school, internet courses, and special programs as this article person falls under, think tim tebow, child actors, hanson the band. Also, not all radio shows require you to be there 24/7, some are not everyday, in fact some host appear mobile or not there every appearance, some call in when they are on the road and have co-host fill in, this person was a co-host of a show, meaning two host, thus the show can go on without him. Many entertainers who do multiple things and use different platforms. Think along the lines of Carrot Top, Magic Johnson, many people have career shifts. It’s logical to believe over a course of a time the events of the article are true not true. Additionally, Basic knowledge of the swimming pool industry may help you, some companies like a lot of other industries offer seasonal employment or have down time in which the industry near shuts down ie theme parks or sports.. some offer contract or salary employment not hourly, this person in particular as mentioned in some of the sources is a qualifier or license holder or the contractor , positions like this and many other upper management positions do not require the position holder to be there all the time. Most entertainers have multiple jobs, they are notable and unique not your everyday run of the mill.
4.) The article says nothing about raising a family, not sure why you raised such point. Most individuals of this caliber typically have a lifestyle in which they do not the family raising and if they did, they usually load them on tour bus or rv or hotel.
5.) This statements are not with genuine merit, it’s assumptions of negativity, i believe judgment should not be negativity passed.
6.) The article was looked over by many editors and suggested upon and approved based on the suggestions including with suggestions by the ones who denied the article, who ask me to go back to the article and look over because in their opinion it was close and some said it's a good article in the making, this editors made comments to me in afc on the article page, not the talk page of what they liked and what they felt needed improved which was done, that’s not a lie.
7.) keep in mind, I went to chat support and I had made this editor User_talk:Bjelleklang aware initially of the article, I asked User_talk:Bjelleklang with my questions of “if you could and would offer a positive way to improve and what one thing of this article he would improve. what would it be and why. For someone reason on the other hand this editor bit my head off and wrote deleted., i understand i'm a newbie here but i have intentions of staying longer. Biting my head off for this the article question that I run asked you chat support prior to you have any knowledge of the article was done to help improve the state of the article to lead it be kept eventually before the 10 day expires. You did not make an effort to improve have more of an deflationist.
8.) i also do not understand why User_talk:Bjelleklang somewhat coerced (maybe too strong of a word, if so i apologize)or jockey another editor who felt it was worthy? that is not NPV in my opinion, it's jockeying. I was am hopeful User_talk:Bjelleklang would take my points into consideration, he failed to reply but rather keeps going back to the page and jockeying more negative points that could be causes impartial judging. AfD is a discussion in which all participants are encouraged to give their own independent opinion. It is the ideas of individuals, not the propaganda of others, that is supposed to help determine the outcome. One who bases one's statement on that crowd as a whole is not making any useful contribution to the discussion, but instead blocking the progress of new opinions.
9.) As I have offer many, this , I’m willing to make variations to improve it more. i also offered users who didn’t like the article for offers for improvement and for them to make edits and discuss them with me. I believe this article is worthy of inclusion, just because someone does not like the article topical doesn’t mean it’s ground to keep looking for reasons of deletion, it’s keeping personal interest on User_talk:Bjelleklang .. if included it will grow, it can be edited over time. Keep in mind that articles can often be improved, and may not need to be deleted if the specific problems can be identified and corrected
10.) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.svg&page=1 I recommend reviewing, it’s clear some of the editors with delete comments fall under here.
11.) I also believe some are falling under If the rationale provided in the nomination includes a comprehensive argument, specific policy references and/or a compelling presentation of evidence in favor of keeping or deletion, a simple endorsement of the nominator's argument may be sufficient, typically indicated by "per nom". Where reasonable counter-arguments to the nomination have been raised in the discussion, you may wish to explain how you justify your support in your own words and, where possible, marshalling your own evidence. Stating your true position in your own words will also assure others that you are not hiding a WP:IDONTLIKEIT position. Which in this case we are running into.
12.) purely personal point-of-view problems in some of the deletes
13.) As in a paper encyclopedia, some articles will be several pages long, others just a line or two. There is no minimum or maximum length that qualifies an article, just the reliable sourcing of the information. Since nothing is in stone, articles can grow, shrink, merge, split, and change in all different ways over time. But once the subject becomes clearly notable, they do not disappear.
14.) Concerned of a possible aussie posse alliance against the article, Bidgee (talk) LauraHale (talk
15.) As for the argument on the sources, Pool & Spa News is a part of Hanley Wood publications. It is a national publication that is distributed in the tens of thousands. It does not use every run of the mill pool company, it only uses reliable companies and executives with note worthy inclusion, the pool industry has hundreds of companies in each city only worthy nationally known companies are accepted and covered, we are talking about a large industry. The editors of such magazine are from LA times, etc, it’s a worthy publication. Also the Orlando sentinel is a large newspaper with high circulation. Ink19 is a weekly paper at the time of print had over tens of thousands in distribution. Radio stations such as WTKS and WJRR have some of the highest listener base and wide coverage as well XM /sirus is national. The sources are creditable sources and it falls under the criteria
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File permission problem with File:Kachunga Alligator Show at Wild Waters next to Silver Springs.jpg
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