User talk:Will M Davis

Welcome!

Hello, Will M Davis, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Unfortunately, your edit to Maharishi Mahesh Yogi does not conform to Wikipedia's Neutral Point of View policy (NPOV). Wikipedia articles should refer only to facts and interpretations that have been stated in print or on reputable websites or other forms of media.

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Help me!

Please help me with... I attempted to edit the section "Sexual Misconduct" under Maharishi Mahesh Yogi (link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maharishi_Mahesh_Yogi), with quotes from a referenced author and journalist Tony Anthony who concludes Maharishi was a life celibate. I feel my edit is a published and referenced (with ISBN #) view point which objectively contradicts your posting of Judith Bourque's claim Maharishi had sex with her and 16 other women (reference 2010 documentary, David Wants to Fly). My post appears to conform with other contradictory posts, for example, George Harrison's view that Maharishi did not make sexual advances toward Mia Farrow. You quote Harrison, "We were very young" and "It's probably in the history books that Maharishi 'tried to attack Mia Farrow' – but it's bullshit, total bullshit." So I don't understand why you can not publish my comment below and add my reference to your footnotes, please?

In the book "A Joy-Filled Amazement My Eight-Year Spiritual Journey with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi," by Tony Anthony, copyright 2022, the author describes in his chapter, "The Celibate Life," how Maharishi "expected celibacy of the members of International Staff" at the Seelisberg Capital of the Age Enlightenment. "It was not a casual announcement- with Maharishi it never was- it was an absolute requirement...The first great monk of our [Maharishi's] tradition, Shankara, was often quoted. More than a thousand years before, he created the guidelines for the role of a Brahmachari, the Sanskrit term for celibate monk." Thus Tony Anthony, educated at Syracuse University, a distinguished Viet Nam War veteran, and a journalist who received an Atlantic Monthly writing award, concludes that Maharishi was a celibate monk and a "guru who shows you the way to God." [] Will M Davis (talk) 09:22, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

References

Hi @Will M Davis, welcome to Wikipedia! For a content dispute like this, your first avenue is the talk page of the relevant article, which is Talk:Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. If you don't get a response in a few days, you can also ask a relevant WikiProject where you will find other editors interested in and knowledgeable about the subject. There are quite a few listed at the top of the article's talk page, in the section: 'of interest to the following WikiProjects'.

In addition to our Neutral point of view policy which DaxServer linked above, I would also advise you to read Referencing for beginners for guidance on how citations should be formatted within Wikipedia articles.

Finally, you address your question to a generic 'you', but if you visit any article's Page history, you will see the name of each editor who has contributed to the article, along with the changes they made and their reasoning. Here's the page history for the Maharishi article. ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · contribs · email) 12:19, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Hello Will,

I totally understand you

It may not be obvious but from a third eye, your tone in the edit/contribution clearly supports your belief that "Maharishi was a life celibate". You may want to present your contributions as merely an alternative point of view or added opinion with proof (references) rather than an argumentative fact that discredits other articles. Word-Smith-editor (talk) 12:22, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, Is this better?

An alternative point of view, is presented in the book "A Joy-Filled Amazement My Eight-Year Spiritual Journey with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi," by Tony Anthony, copyright 2022. Anthony describes in his chapter, "The Celibate Life," how Maharishi "expected celibacy of the members of International Staff" at the Seelisberg Capital of the Age Enlightenment. "It was not a casual announcement- with Maharishi it never was- it was an absolute requirement...The first great monk of our [Maharishi's] tradition, Shankara, was often quoted. More than a thousand years before, he created the guidelines for the role of a Brahmachari, the Sanskrit term for celibate monk." Thus Tony Anthony, author and journalist, concludes that Maharishi was a life time celibate monk and a "guru who shows you the way to God." [Anthony, Tony (2022). A Joy-Filled Amazement My Eight Year Spiritual Journey with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi., Montgomery Wood Publishing, pp. 143, 146. ISBN 9780578357225] Will M Davis (talk) 07:39, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Hello Will, you are welcome. Yet the tone of the article is still biased Word-Smith-editor (talk) 17:19, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Edit warring

Do not restore material that has been removed because it is disputed. This is edit warring and will get you blocked. Please enter the discussion at Talk:Maharesh Mahesh Yogi instead. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 18:57, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

No, really, don't do this. It will get you blocked. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 22:01, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Conflict of interest

Clearly, your purpose at Wikipedia is to promote transcendental meditation and its founders and proponents. You have a conflict of interest and must take care not to promote any person or group. 22:18, 8 August 2024 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by WikiDan61 (talk • contribs) 22:18, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

I wanted to add the following positive paragraph below ("In 2022, the World Journal of Social Science...") which promotes transcendental meditation and its founders and proponents:

Yogic Flying, a mental-physical exercise of hopping while cross-legged, is a central aspect of the TM-Sidhi program. With the introduction of the TM-Sidhi program in 1976, it was postulated that a group of people practising the TM-Sidhi program twice a day, together in one place, would increase "life-supporting trends" in the surroundings, with the threshold for the group size being the square root of 1% of the area's population. This was called the "Extended Maharishi Effect", referring to the "Maharishi effect" with a threshold of 1% of the population. These effects have been examined in 14 published studies, including a gathering of over 4,000 people in Washington DC in the summer of 1993.

In 2022, the World Journal of Social Science published a study showing that group practice of the TM and TM-Sidhi techniques by √1% of the US population (1725) decreased multiple stress indicators in the U.S. There were significant trend reductions in: homicides, rape, aggravated assault, robbery, infant mortality, drug-related deaths, motor vehicle fatalities, fatalities due to injuries in youths ages 10-19, and in a composite index of all eight variables (p’s < .0001). For example, during the Demonstration period drug-related deaths fell to 14% below their Baseline trend. [https://www.sciedupress.com/journal/index.php/wjss/article/view/22214]

While empirical studies have been published in peer-reviewed academic journals this research remains controversial and has been characterised as pseudoscience by sceptics James Randi, Carl Sagan, and others. Will M Davis (talk) 07:24, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, I meant to say, I wish to summarize, inform, and reference, by including the following paragraph, which clarifies and illustrates for Wikipedia readers what these abstract concepts, Yogic Flying and Extended Maharishi Effect are. Thereby the inclusion of my paragraph would hopefully remove confusion on this difficult Wikipedia topic.

In 2022, the World Journal of Social Science published a study showing that group practice of the TM and TM-Sidhi techniques by √1% of the US population (1725) decreased multiple stress indicators in the U.S. There were significant trend reductions in: homicides, rape, aggravated assault, robbery, infant mortality, drug-related deaths, motor vehicle fatalities, fatalities due to injuries in youths ages 10-19, and in a composite index of all eight variables (p’s < .0001). For example, during the Demonstration period drug-related deaths fell to 14% below their Baseline trend. [https://www.sciedupress.com/journal/index.php/wjss/article/view/22214]

Will M Davis (talk) 07:55, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

I attended Dartmouth College, and the reference, [Anthony, Tony (2022). A Joy-Filled Amazement My Eight Year Spiritual Journey with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi., Montgomery Wood Publishing, pp. 143, 146. ISBN 9780578357225], would have been a legitimate reference for a paper for a college degree. Regardless that it may have been self-published, it has a copyright. Furthermore, inference is a valid means for helping a reader draw their own conclusions. The fact that Maharishi required celibacy of his staff, logically infers that he may have required it for himself. Will M Davis (talk) 08:43, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

To remove a Wikipedia edit about a study whose author was David Orme-Johnson, who was affiliated with MIU, would be like saying Einstein's theories of relativity can't be included in Wikipedia's discussion because Einstein was affiliated with his own theories. The journal editors who publish David Orme-Johnson's studies are not practicing Transcendental Meditation. Orme-Johnson's studies meet the rigorous scientific and statistical requirements to be published as mainstream scientific knowledge. Perhaps most published research, like Carl Sagan, for example, is affiliated with an institution. Therefore it is more important for Wikipedia to consider the legitimacy of the journals and their editors, than the author's affiliations.

This is why you should please ethically include my posts with Orme-Johnson's studies on TM. Will M Davis (talk) 08:58, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

@Will M Davis we are not Dartmouth College. Wikipedia has its own requirements regarding using reliable sources to support verifiability. ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · contribs · email) 10:49, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Mr Davis, I'd like to address a few of the points you've raised here, as I have largely been responsible for reverting your edits.

1. The World Journal of Social Science is a journal of questionable reliability since its publisher, SciEdu Press is listed on Beall's List of Potential Predatory Publishers and the more recent Predatory Journals and Publishers List. Such predatory publishers have little to no editorial oversight, and their editorial boards are often populated with people who have not even given permission for their names to be used in such capacity. They will publish basically anything as long as the author can pay their fee.
2. Your assertion regarding Tony Anthony's book that inference is a valid means for helping a reader draw their own conclusions is invalid. Wikipedia does not allow editors to draw conclusions that are not supported by reliable sources. The fact that Tony Anthony believed, to paraphrase, "the Maharishi insisted on celibacy for his followers, therefore he must also have been celibate," merely reflects Anthony's (possibly naive) faith in his leader. I, as a Roman Catholic, like to believe that the Pope maintains celibacy since that is a requirement for all Roman Catholic clergy, but I do not delude myself into thinking that all Popes have remained celibate.
3. Orme-Johnson's research cannot be equated with Einstein's. Einstein set out, without prejudice, to understand the nature of the universe. Orme-Johnson, with prejudice, set out to try to prove the tenets of a belief system that he had already accepted on faith. These are two very different research methodologies.

WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 13:02, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Dear Editor,

Can the second paragraph be used in place of Orme-Johnson's study please?

Yogic Flying, a mental-physical exercise of hopping while cross-legged, is a central aspect of the TM-Sidhi program. With the introduction of the TM-Sidhi program in 1976, it was postulated that a group of people practising the TM-Sidhi program twice a day, together in one place, would increase "life-supporting trends" in the surroundings, with the threshold for the group size being the square root of 1% of the area's population. This was called the "Extended Maharishi Effect", referring to the "Maharishi effect" with a threshold of 1% of the population. These effects have been examined in 14 published studies, including a gathering of over 4,000 people in Washington DC in the summer of 1993.

A 15-year study published February, 2023 in the medical journal Medicina concludes that group practice of Transcendental Meditation and its advanced aspect, the TM-Sidhi program, may help counter alarming rising trends in U.S. drug overdose deaths due to opioids and other drugs. As hypothesized, the rising baseline trend was reduced (flattened out) during the five-year “demonstration period” of the study 2007–2011 when the size of the MIU group was above or near the theoretically predicted level required to influence public health trends: the square root of 1% of the U.S. population, 1,725 at that time. During the demonstration period drug-related deaths fell to 14% below their baseline trend. [https://www.mdpi.com/1648-9144/59/2/195]

While empirical studies have been published in peer-reviewed academic journals this research remains controversial and has been characterised as pseudoscience by sceptics James Randi, Carl Sagan, and others. Will M Davis (talk) 17:47, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Dear Editor,

Can the following which includes a published causal interpretation and a study from Medicina be substituted for the Orme-Johnson study please? If not can you please explain why not?

The Journal of Conflict Resolution, 1988, published a causal interpretation for "International Peace Project in the Middle East: The Effects of the Maharishi Technology of the Unified Field." This study indicates a small group of Transcendental Meditation peace experts practicing Yogic Flying, reduced warfare in Lebanon. "Cross-correlations and transfer functions indicated that the group had a leading relationship to change on the quality-of-life indicators, supporting a causal interpretation." [https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0022002788032004009]

A 15-year study published February, 2023 in the medical journal Medicina concludes that group practice of Transcendental Meditation and its advanced aspect, the TM-Sidhi program, may help counter alarming rising trends in U.S. drug overdose deaths due to opioids and other drugs. As hypothesized, the rising baseline trend was reduced (flattened out) during the five-year “demonstration period” of the study 2007–2011 when the size of the MIU group was above or near the theoretically predicted level required to influence public health trends: the square root of 1% of the U.S. population, 1,725 at that time. During the demonstration period drug-related deaths fell to 14% below their baseline trend. [https://www.mdpi.com/1648-9144/59/2/195]

Will M Davis (talk) 21:16, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Whether it has a copyright is irrelevant. We do not use self-published sources on Wikipedia, beacuse any idiot can self-publish a book or web page. The book by Tony Anthony is not a reliable source and is not a useful addition to this website. Cambial — foliar❧ 14:36, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Discussing a content dispute

Your own user talk page is not the proper venue to be discussing a content dispute. Please address the topic at the relevant article talk page[s]. In this case, I've opened a discussion at Talk:Transcendental Meditation technique, and I have pinged you in that discussion. You should discuss the appropriateness of adding Orme-Johnson's research at that page, not here. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 21:34, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Some guidance perhaps

Will M Davis. We have some very hard and fast guides to editing Wikipedia. These guides don't always make sense outside of Wikipedia, an encyclopedia where we are compiling information that has already been published, but here they are a kind of gold standard. Sources for scientific content and most especially health related topics must be more definitive than peer reviews; systematic reviews, meta analysis, and some textbooks are the best examples. Editors look for research that is not connected to the topic of the article. While the research can be very good as Orme Johnson's is and was, still his connection to TM raises red flags in terms of neutrality. Especially in such a case we would look to systematic reviews, the quality of the publisher, and the impact factor. To be honest we're way past calling research on any meditation techniques "hokum", but there has been plenty of other hokum on Wikipedia so many good editors are vigilant and must be. I really suggest you take a look if you haven't already at WP:OR, WP:RS, WP:MEDRS. Best Littleolive oil (talk) 19:23, 24 September 2024 (UTC)