User talk:Wikiloonwater

Welcome!

Hello, Wikiloonwater, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Unfortunately, one or more of the pages you created, like It – How Churches and Leaders Can Get It and Keep It, may not conform to some of Wikipedia's guidelines for page creation, and may soon be deleted.

You may also wish to consider using a Wizard to help you create articles. See the Article Wizard.

Thank you.

There's a page about creating articles you may want to read called Your first article. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the New contributors' help page, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type {{helpme}} on this page, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Here are a few other good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! Brianhe (talk) 06:12, 11 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed deletion of It – How Churches and Leaders Can Get It and Keep It

The article It – How Churches and Leaders Can Get It and Keep It has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Notability not established; unreferenced

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{dated prod}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Brianhe (talk) 06:12, 11 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned non-free media (File:Somersault_logomark_and_logotype.gif)

Thanks for uploading File:Somersault_logomark_and_logotype.gif. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'file' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Melesse (talk) 01:20, 8 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Non-free files in your user space

Hey there Wikiloonwater, thank you for your contributions. I am a bot, alerting you that non-free files are not allowed in user or talk space. I removed some files I found on User:Wikiloonwater/Somersault Group. In the future, please refrain from adding fair-use files to your user-space drafts or your talk page.

See a log of files removed today here.

Shut off the bot here.

Report errors here.

Thank you, -- DASHBot (talk) 05:03, 8 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Shutdown of DASHBot

Why did you shutdown DASHBot? The bot appears to be functioning normally. --Hammersoft (talk) 12:47, 8 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Because when I clicked on the "Report Error here" link that goes to Tim1357, he said that, when reporting errors, shut down the bot because it's easier to start it up again than it is to undo several edits. I thought the whole matter was an error than simply needed clarifying, so I notified Tim1357 of that. I guess I have a lot to learn here, because I'm getting more confused with each new message I receive.Wikiloonwater (talk) 18:29, 8 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There is a lot of arcane stuff around here. I'm sorry it is that way, but the bureaucracy around here is always expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy. If there's something I can help you with, let me know. --Hammersoft (talk) 18:37, 8 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

New article

Re your comments here; you do not need anyone's approval to create an article here. You can create it yourself if you like by moving your userspace creation to the mainspace. There is a 'move' tab at the top to do that. However, it appears the entire "Managers" section is a copyright violation of this page. That managers section would have to be completely rewritten, or it has to go. Also, the references are weak. You should probably refer to Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources and Wikipedia:PRIMARY#Primary.2C_secondary_and_tertiary_sources. Also, do you work for this group? If so, writing about a company you work for usually constitutes a conflict of interest and almost always generates an article that isn't acceptable on Wikipedia. If you do work for this company, you should read Wikipedia:Conflict of interest. Thank you, --Hammersoft (talk) 12:54, 8 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm trying to learn the Wikipedia way of things, so thanks for bearing with me. The "Manager" section is not a copyright violation, since I'm the person who originally wrote it to begin with. Yes, I'm a part of Somersault, but I thought I was being very careful not to include any adjectives or superlatives into the Wikipedia copy. I've worked with National Public Radio and tried to follow their (non-profit) standard of writing just the facts when they write sponsorship copy. I've reviewed other companies' Wikipedia entries and I tried to follow their approach. And I've read the conflict of interest entry on Wikipedia. I honestly believe how I've described Somersault fits with Wikipedia's standards. May this article remain and have its logo reattached to it? Thank you for your consideration.Wikiloonwater (talk) 18:38, 8 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Being the person who originally wrote that text does not make you the copyright holder of it. Presumably, Somersault was paying you to write it. Therefore, Somersault owns rights to it and they have to specifically release such rights. As to the article remaining, honestly I think it's weak. It needs considerably better sources of information from secondary sources. See Wikipedia:PRIMARY#Primary.2C_secondary_and_tertiary_sources. Attaching the logo isn't a problem IF the article is in the mainspace (actual article). If it's in userspace, as now, it is a problem as that violates WP:NFC #9, which prohibits the use of non-free images on userpages. --Hammersoft (talk) 18:50, 8 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your patience. Somersault did not pay me to write it. I am a co-owner of Somersault. And so far, we're non-profit :) (working without pay, income, or profit). The article is meant to recognize Somersault as a legitimate entity. As secondary sources write about us, those articles can be sourced. For example, by the former religion writer for the Detroit Free Press (http://campaign.constantcontact.com/render?v=001wGH4ADbzDTus-IOmJYdUlFhYhYZXGkuu-ypCs8_GlirLpdXu-XBGSM6Zm0lyJFmkKwoBDeHdaG8Xwg5q9HbsciJ1z5TtG08iWCED1SMwSREKSj_IBXsJKbbN1n0PiP31ngXxELlQ-H-ZJdsxjJiGQ0VrJR9bwtUi#LETTER.BLOCK24) and Publishers Weekly (http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/book-news/religion/article/43704-news-briefs-.html).

So if I understand you correctly, I may add the above sources to the article, move it to the Main space, reattach our logo, without fear of deletion? Wikiloonwater (talk) 19:55, 8 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Still problematic. Ok, so you own copyright to the text...but how do we prove this independent of you? We can't. I'm not asking you to identify yourself. But, you need to contact the m:OTRS team to release that text. Else, it WILL be picked up as a copyright violation by other editors, and it will get deleted. As to the sources; right now, all of them are poor. The first three are all self published press releases. That's a primary source. The second three are references to alltop, which strikes me as weak, as opposed to say a newspaper article. You might want to put this in front of the Wikipedia:Articles for creation people. --Hammersoft (talk) 20:07, 8 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Again, thanks for your patience and for your advice. I'm happy to identify myself. I'm Jonathan Petersen, one of the managers of Somersault. I included the Alltop references as proof that my Twitter feed is, indeed, included among Alltop's recommended feeds on those topics. And as for newspaper articles, Somersault was the focus of a story in The Grand Rapids Press (http://www.mlive.com/living/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2010/07/former_zondervan_employees_lau.html). So The Grand Rapids Press, Publishers Weekly, and ReadTheSpirit are 3 independent secondary sources. I'll fold those into the entry. Do I still need to contact m:OTRS? Again, thanks. Wikiloonwater (talk) 21:13, 8 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the copyrighted text, yes, you do. Identifying yourself isn't helpful here. It's not a question of trust. It's a question of verifiability. You saying you are who you are doesn't equate to release of rights. We can't prove it. Contacting the m:OTRS team is the way to handle that. --Hammersoft (talk) 21:15, 8 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Can you tell me, to contact the m:OTRS, I click on the above link, click on the "Discussion" tab, and create a new topic and then describe our conversation? Is that correct? Thanks for helping me on this whole thing.Wikiloonwater (talk) 21:54, 8 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You can contact an OTRS administrator via this link showing e-mail addresses. --Hammersoft (talk) 00:23, 9 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
More info for you; instructions for granting permission at Wikipedia:Contact us/Permit. --Hammersoft (talk) 16:06, 10 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]