User talk:Who R you?/Spelling: anti-Semitic vs antisemitic

Copied from Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2011 August 15:

This is going to be offtoipc, but concering Spelling: anti-Semitic vs antisemitic, is that the an article that you plan to publish ("make live")?Curb Chain (talk) 11:01, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

I was primarily thinking for linking to the talk page for antisemitism and, if I BOLDed the "spelling correction" on that or any other pages (but given the sensitivity surrounding the entire topic, more likely following discussion or at least a few days after a talk page post rather than Boldly changing), and then to link to talk pages of anything else updated, just to attach a complete thought without putting reams of stuff on one or more talk pages.

If post−discussion it made sense to link the page I created for users to access, as backup and a separate talk page to discuss the spelling topic, a lot of changes to form would likely be needed first, and issues re:copyright and whether it was WP:OR, etc would need to be resolved before linking/going live.  — Who R you? (talk) 14:58, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Broken out from other discussion and copied to this talk page.  — Who R you? (talk) 15:11, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

I don't see the need for a separate article discussion the spelling of "anti-Semitic" vs "antisemitic".Curb Chain (talk) 12:05, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

It was more about providing the backup to other editors, to correct entries throughout WP that have been changed to the non−hyphenated version.  As the antisemitism page says in the 3rd paragraph of the Usage section, what is essentially the modification of the English language and creation of a new word, is an intentional effort with the apparent goal being to use Wikipedia as a platform to present this change.  The entire WP environment appears to have been edited to reflect this proposed new word — See: Anti−semitism in the United States (s/b Anti−Semitism…) redirect page for the Dec 30/07 move to non−hyphenation, and Anti−Semitism redirect page on Oct 30/06 (Not sure who/what is meant by move comment saying Per RM).  In fact, because of all the existing redirects it would, as far as I understand how the system works, be impossible for it to be corrected without Admin status to deal with deleting redirects in order to move pages back.

And on some levels it's a very stupid thing, it is after all just spelling; but there's correct and incorrect.  As for anti−Semitism as a thing, an attitude, a way of treating people, it's a stupid and asinine way of treating ones fellow man, as is all prejudice.

Given that the change to non−hyphenation appears, as first glance, to be a wiki−wide concerted effort, documentary proof and justification such as the page contains seems likely to be called for.  As to whether some of this type of information, in whatever form, should be accessible to the public, I don't think there's much of a need except, perhaps, in the sense of a footnote somewhere indicating that, regardless of the efforts to introduce the proposed new non−hyphenated word, the vast majority of sources use the hyphenated form and that is still the "correct" spelling although both are becoming, or have become, acceptable.  I just don't know how one would, as part of another article, identify that fact in any other way, unless there's a source somewhere that says that in a clear quotable statement, but I wouldn't expect there to be.  I just think the point of the encyclopedia is to provide (correct) information to people with sources to back things up; and policy is that all things should represent the majority view as the majority and the minority view as the alternative, hyphenation in this case being the indisputable majority.

The correction of WP is the issue; whether to public ever sees any form of documentation, such as what's on this page, is unimportant.  And I only planned to move it to the main article space to discuss, rather than linking it to my user name, as I foresee some people considering my having an opinion on this matter which doesn't conform to the proposed new word will somehow mean that I am what the word in question identifies.  — Who R you? (talk) 18:06, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Articlespace is not for that: you MUST leave it in your userspace because it is an opinion of yours. Anything that is in mainspace represents an opinion of more than on editor. What is "s/b"? "Per RM" means "per requested move". Undeletion does require administration or higher. But redirecting something does not need administration or higher.Curb Chain (talk) 11:00, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

s/b → Should Be.  (Proper spelling in this case capitalizes the "S" after the hyphen; Wiktionary:Semite being a proper noun; just as "anti−American" or "anti−Canadian").

I agree that whether or not the spelling s/b corrected is my opinion (founded in WP policy); however, what is/isn't the correct spelling has nothing to do with my opinion; that is the subject of the entire page, which is based solely on the citation of the sources (just not properly formatted in footnote or inline citation format since it was more about talking to other editors; something else in the style that would need to be changed if made "public"); my greatest contribution, other than the explanatory opening paragraph and compiling the information in one location, being the simple arithmetic calculation of percentages of hits returned by various web searches (nothing OR or POV).  That's fine if the correct place is userspace and it never becomes a public article; I explained my only reason for thinking articlespace.

Redirecting (or moving) may not require Admin, but, currently existing redirects point correct hyphenated spellings to existing incorrect non−hyphenated article titles.  My understanding is, to correct these (i.e.:

1. delete existing redirect of hyphenated (Anti−Semitism redirect),
2. move non−hyphenated to hyphenated (Antisemitism → Anti−Semitism),
3. edit article to reflect hyphenated as the RS majority (anti s  −S emitism), and
4. create redirect from non−hyphenated to hyphenated (done automatically by Step 2. move))

everything can be done by any editor except step 1, delete existing redirect; that requires Admin, no?  Not really a function one wants to "play with", especially in the mainspace.

To highlight the scope of the matter, a search finds 4,500+ hits for "antisemitism" alone (but it looks like WP's search engine matches both hyphenated and non-hyphenated forms when searched); I counted at least 40 of these in titles which, one assumes, are blocked from being moved by redirects of the hyphenated to the misspelled articles (as with '… in the US' example before).

Is the correct procedure simply to post this matter to the antisemitism talk page with a link to here and then argue it here/there?  My gut says it'll be mighty difficult to get a consensus to correct; any suggestions how one might proceed after that?  Thanks for your input.  — Who R you? (talk) 20:40, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

There is a page WP:redirects for discussion where redirects get deleted.Curb Chain (talk) 20:49, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll check that out.  — Who R you? (talk) 00:06, 20 August 2011 (UTC)