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Re: Juve 7/TFC Play-offs

@Messirulez: Well... It's official now... 105+ million, hopefully we can put to good use. Maybe Matuidi? I guess we'll see, but it's really sad to see Pogba leave, especially since Juve developed him into the world class player he is today and also since he is going back to his former team which didn't believe in him much; hopefully it doesn't hurt our Champions League chances... are midfield is pretty strong anyway I feel. It's just that we have real Juventinos like Bonucci who turned down big money from Man City and Buffon who has done the same throughout his career, and with Totti saying the same thing when Higuain left Napoli that players nowadays like to follow the money and not their heart... I mean Pogba has been all over social media saying thanks to all the Juve fans and Juve will always be in his heart ect ect, it doesn't make sense... Maybe it is something to do with Raiola's huge commission he gets off his deal, but I wouldn't leave Juve for them, especially being Man U; they're not even in the CL hahah. Anyway, good luck to him, but it really is disappointing. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 00:48, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Yes...it's a shame because we've sold a few players, and Marchisio, although excellent, is supposedly out until December, and Khedira is also great but is often prone to injury, and Hernanes is inconsistent while Sturaro is still young, so right now that area looks a bit weak; if Marchisio, Pjanic and Khedira remain fit and are always played, however, then I think that would certainly be a strong three-man midfield in either a 3–5–2 or 4–3–3, but it was nice having a fourth good midfielder in case we wanted to play a 4–3–1–2 as well. It's a shame to see Pogba go espeically as you said that Man U didn't seem to interested in him and Fergusson and Gary Neville had criticised him, but Juve helped him develop into a quality player, especially this season, and he's so well-rounded: skilful, quick, powerful, creative, can pass, shoot, tackle, run tirlessly, help out in defence, win challenges in the air...in the meantime in his early 20s he broke into Juve's line-up and has won 4 league titles, 2 domestic cups, several Supercups, reached a Champions League final, an Europa League semi-final, and the final of the Euros, also being named to the FIFPro World XI and UEFA Teams of the Year last year, and winning almost every young player award there is (Golden Boy, Bravo Award, Best young player at FIFA World Cup, best player at the Under-20 world cup, which he also won...). It's nice to see him break the world transfer fee at least, as I've never really been enamoured of Bale, whom I find to be lacking in terms of technical skill, passing range, vision, and creative abilities, and I don't think he scores enough even though he does get a good amount of goals; he's a quality player, who is fast, strong, well-rounded and works hard, and above all he's consistent, but I don't think he can be compared with someone like Cristiano Ronaldo. Having said that...I'm sure paying 105-110 million Euros for a midfielder like Pogba is also extreme, but he certainly has skills, talent, power, energy, and creativity; I really hope he does well in the Premier League so he can demonstrate his true worth. I hope we can buy some decent midfielders to help replace him; Matuidi is a good player, but quite different (works hard and contributes at both ends, but he isn't as skilful or creative), but I'm not sure if there are many players who are as well rounded as Pogba is (Vidal is one, but we already gave him away)...I feel that we have already done really well with our transfers (although we spent a ridiculous 90 million on Higuain, but he is a good striker, and we have good full-backs and another solid defender and a good playmaker/set-piece taker), but I feel like we need one or two class midfielders and maybe another good left winger to be really competitive next year, depending what system we will be using (it would also be nice to start looking into getting a good young goalkeeper to bring in as an occasional alternative for Gigi so he can rest a bit, and then have him as a replacement once he goes, as Neto is good as a back-up, but not an ideal replacement for the future; then maybe we could loan him out for now, or play him in less important league or cup games). I hope we can get some good players and do well this year...I really really want to see us win a Champions League soon! Best, Messirulez (talk) 03:54, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
@Messirulez: Yes, Pogba has certainly grown with Juve, winning lots of trophies and awards. He was great for our midfield, which has taken a blow, but it also did last year when we lost Vidal and Pirlo, so hopefully we can overcome it with the quality midfield we have, but there are some injury issues as you said. Yes, we do probably need another one or two great mids and hopefully we can acquire them soon. We really did have the best all rounded midfielders in the world at that time with the three of them, so not many can replace them. A lot of people were saying Pogba was overpriced, which may be true, but was the only way he was leaving Torino; and yes, at least he broke the world transfer fee record. Many media outlets were criticizing Higuain's fitness as he did appear to look a little overweight... I really hope he doesn't turn out to be a bust. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 10:43, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Pretty good opening game. I was surprised Pjanic didn't make an appearance.. but it was good to see Asamoah in the line up after a long time in injury. It was a good ball in from Chiellini met by a powerful Khedira header. Also good to see Higuain get the winner, although it was only his first touch, but it was from a tight angle, so he did well to put it away. It's odd how we don't start a player we paid 90 million for. Let this be the first win of many in the season, and hope for a good CL draw on Thursday! Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 04:09, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree with everything; it wasn't an easy opener and I'm glad we got the win although it's still early; I don't know why Pjanic and Higuain didn't start (or why Pjanic didn't even play) as we didn't have a playmaker; I'm wondering if Higuain still needed to finish his summer prep as he was out of shape, and if he wanted Pjanic to be better integrated into the team first...who knows! Sometimes I've questioned Allegri's decisions but overall these past two seasons I must say he hasn't done too much wrong with Juve...hopefully this will finally be a winning team in the Champions League, although I feel we might need one more quality midfielder (although he sold Pereyra - who was decent but not amazng - it's true that Asamoah is back now and can play in the centre, and we still have Hernanes on the bench and Sturaro is solid and so is Marrone), but with Pogba gone, Marchisio out until December, and Khedira's constant injury struggles I feel like we could use one more very good midfielder (although I'm not sure, or what kind of player we would need, whether it be a box-to-box player, or a creative hard-worker or a defensive midfielder). Maybe we could also use another winger upfront; I'm not sure what to expect of Pjaca to be honest, but I hope he turns out to be a superstar! Best, Messirulez (talk) 18:16, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Hi! Good that we got the three points today in a hot away match, but I must say it was a little boring. I thought that Benatia played well in place of Bonucci today which is a good thing. Still no Pjanic though. Even though Pjaca came into the came late, he almost got himself a goal at the end! I'm pretty happy with our CL draw of Sevilla, Lyon,and Zagreb. Sevilla have taken the EL by storm the past couple years, but the other two shouldn't pose a great threat if we don't underestimate them. It will be interesting to see the first match up with Sevilla on 14 September now that Sirigu has transferred there. I think the Matuidi deal has fallen through as he is now signing an extension with PSG... so we still need to find someone else. Khedira has played quite well in midfield in these opening two games however. And now that Zaza's gone, possibly another striker. It was nice to see Ventura call up Donnarumma for the two international matches on 1 September and 5 September, breaking that 105 year record of the youngest senior call up since 1911. I wonder if he'll get an appearance though. Also nice to see Belotti up there as he's been good for Torino, however, why not Berardi? He's been a really great player for Sassuolo, especially in getting them to their first ever EL campaign! I mean, why has he called back Pelle even though he is in China?! If you're gonna do that, why the cold shoulder to Gio? (although, he is playing for TFC right now I suppose (and he and TFC have really picked it up since I last spoke about them, breaking De Rosario's all-time goalscoring record and jumping up to first place!)) Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 22:55, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I agree it was a good result, although I'm also not sure why he isn't using our newer acquisitions (aside from Dani Alves)...I'm sure there's a reason. Yes, our draw isn't too bad, although Sevilla and Lyon won't be easy, and we always underestimate our opponents, but hopefully our draw will be easier than in past years. Yes, as much as I wasn't crazy about Zaza with both him and Morata gone, we probably need one more striker, or a winger I suppose. I hope we can get another midfielder altholugh now there isn't much time left and it seems like no one is really interested. Nice to see Donnarumma called up; I heard that he didn't call up Berardi because of the under-21 qualifiers which are important (but in that case I don't know why he called up Belotti, even though I'm happy for him as he has also been playing well). Yeah, I'm glad with how well Berardi has played in the EL qualifying for Sassuolo, helping them to qualify for the group stage; it would be amazing if they could get to the second round! Yeah...I'm wondering if he's trying to call up certain players from the Euro team who were important to the team's cohesion...but I don't really know why he would bring Pellé and not Giovinco, who has been playing well and leading Toronto to the top of the Eastern Conference table (didn't he go off injured at the weekend? was it anything serious?), especially when Belgium, who were ranked no.1 European Team, brought Ciman to the Euros and even played against Italy. Best, Messirulez (talk) 12:26, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
@Messirulez: Agreed. Also, yes, Giovinco did have to be brought off in the 401 derby to Montreal, that was a very heated game with a questionable Montreal red card and an unfortunate eventual Toronto loss. But shiiit, news just came out today that Gio will be sidelined for a month! I hoped it wasn't anything serious. I hope this doesn't hurt our chances now, although we are still in decent shape with Altidore back and with the new forward signing of Ricketts. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 21:37, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
Oh, that's unfortunate that Seba will be out for that long. Was it a bad challenge on him? Yeah, hopefully they can stay in the top two while he's out because since scoring after that "slump" he has been on fire, scoring or assisting in every game and has once again hit double figures in goals and assists and is leading the leauge in both pretty much. How is Nocerino doing with Orlando? I hope he does well; I always liked him as a player, but unfortunately he never maanged to replicate the form he produced during the 2011–12 season. It seems Pirlo is doing much better now and New York FC have also been doing well and are second behind Toronto in the Eastern Conference, which is good considering the hate he was getting before. What about Mancosu and Donadel for Montreal?

Apparently Ventura is saying he didn't call up Berardi because he prefers to play as a winger in a 4–3–3 formation and he couldn't be used in a 3–5–2...I find that a bit ridiculous; Cerci was a winger but under him he played as a second striker with Immobile, and I'm sure that Berardi is the type of player that could play as one in a free role...he picked up an injury in the last game anyway, so I suppose he wouldn't have been able to play; he'll be missing the game against Juve again. Hope it's nothing; I read he became the youngest Italian player to score 40 goals in Serie A since the 1994–95 season and the youngest overall after Pato, which is exciting so I hope he can keep this form up this season as last season wasn't quite as good as previous years, although it wasn't bad either considering his age. Unfortunately I read that despite the win over Pescara, Sassuolo will be handed a 3–0 default loss as Ragusa played but apparently they hadn't included him in their list of 25 players to be used for the game. I'm also a bit annoyed that Vazquez said he no longer wanted to play for Italy; I always thought he was talented player, who was slow but creative and skilful on the ball and a good passer and assist provider, and I thought his ability as an advanced playmaker was overlooked when we didn't really have any great players in his position. Now that he is playing for a bigger team like Sevilla and putting on some good performances and getting more attention he says he would rather play for Argentina (I think a player can switch as long as they haven't played any senior competitive matches for a certain national team, like when Diego Costa decided to play for Spain after he had previously represented Brazil). Oh well! I suppose if he doesn't really feel Italian then you can't blame him, but it annoys me a bit that he accepted a call-up before because he didn't receive any from Argentina, although I suppose it's also understandable as players want to play international football and Italy are still a good team. Anyway, best regards, Messirulez (talk) 12:48, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Yeah, it is unfortanute he's out for that long... the contact on him in the challenge wasn't severe, he tried to continue on, but was replaced a couple minutes later. Nothing like that scare he got in the Cambiasso challenge a few years back. I don't really follow the MLS much outside of Toronto, so I can't really speak for the others. Judging by Nocerino's wiki page, he's played 15 times (Italian wiki more up to date), zero goals, but he is a mid. Matteo Mancosu has 2 goals in 4 appearances which is pretty good. To be honest, I didn't even know that those Italian players were at Montreal. During the 401 derby I thought Piatti was Italian, but upon searching him he is actually Argentinian. So many Argentinians with Italian roots, eh? I know Drogba is doing well, as there is much coverage of him considering he is high profile. Yes, I heard that reason for Berardi's omission too; because of formation. Quite ridiculous as you said, but he is injured now anyway as you've also pointed out. I like him too and what he's done for Sassuolo, I wish them nothing but the best of luck, they deserve it to get to where they are in a few short years, especially their EL qualification; hopefully they go as far as they can. Hopefully he can shine for Italy soon too. I also hear that their game against Pescara was repealed; even though they won, it was given to Pescara because of that illegal fielding of that player, as you said. The league took it upon themselves though eh, Pescara didn't even notice, or bother to file a complaint if they did. Kind of silly if you ask me. Sassuolo has announced they're going to appeal it. And yes, that annoyed me about Vazquez too. Why would you flip-flop between national teams? ..Oh, Argentina wasn't calling, so I guess I'd go to Italy.. Basically what's happening. But, whatever, I don't see how he'll get playing time for Argentina anyway. If he sides with Argentina and comes back to Italy, that would really be absurd. I also heard that Juve are close to signing Witsel (Witsel has now fallen through) and Cuadardo (- official). I really liked Cuadrado last year; very fast and skillful. He did have a great relationship with Pogba last season, so I hope his absence wouldn't affect anything... and Matuidi obviously fell through. I feel bad for Lichsteiner though. He's been with us for a long time and is getting replaced even though he is great at what he does and doesn't deserve to be on the bench. I heard Juve are not letting him go, but he wants to move to Inter. Also great to see Balo find a team, and Nice is a decent team to refind his form; I really really hope he does well! Do you know what's happening with the Cassano - Sampdoria situation? He's been not allowed on the dressing room and blanked from their website and refuses to leave the club as he still has another year on his contract despite all this being thrown at him! How do you feel about Joe Hart going to Torino?? When I heard that, I couldn't believe it. You don't really see a lot of English players coming to Serie A anymore. He was a top goalkeeper not too long ago, but he's been criticized his Euro campaign and is being replaced by Bravo. And Torino got him for a steal! Only a million euro year loan. Whenever I hear his name anymore, the only thing I can picture is when he yelled at the ball boys to give him the fucking ball when Pirlo's crazy spun ball hit the cross bar off a free kick during the WC. hahahah that video always kills me! Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 00:21, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, I hope Giovinco recovers quickly as it would be amazing if all his work and skill could culminate in a top two finish in the eastern conference and a place in the conference semi-finals. Yes, Piatti is Argentine but probably of Italian origin, like many of them! He is quite solid in the MLS when I've seen him play (as is Higuain's brother); it's incredible how many really good Argentine players are of Italian origin actually (Maradona, Messi, Batistuta being the main ones...obviously many young Argentine players now are also of Italian origin as well...) and it's shame we miss out on having them in our national team (and that someone talented like Vazquez who doesn't get called up has now turned us down)! Mind you, we would probably not use them properly, like when we had Baggio but Sacchi didn't play him in his best position and he ended up being left of the squad... kind of like what Ventura is doing with Berardi, lol, although I'm sure he will definitely call him up soon and hopefully Sassuolo will win the appeal. I heard about Witsel, which would have been fantastic as an extra midfielder, especially as the Matuidi deal never happened, and I'm really annoyed the deal also fell through; we should have tried to seal that as we needed a two-way midfielder to fill in for (not replace) Pogba. Cuadrado is good...for a loan it's nice to have him back as he's a talented winger, which we needed, and he did well last year, but I also find him so frustrating at times and I don't know if he will be one of the players who will make the difference in Europe (although his goal against Bayern Muncih was fantastic). I agree that he's very quick, skilful and hard-working, but as you know from my previous comments, I personally feel like he doesn't offer much else at times, as he's a decent but not exceptional passer, crosser or striker of the ball; I also occasionally find him to be a bit tactically clueless, inconsistent and undisciplined. Maybe in a 4–3–3 he would do better though, because in a 3–5–2 he sometimes gets caught out defensively (although I suppose defence isn't really his job as he's an offensive player, and to his credit he always helps to cover the flank) or dribbles himself into a corner taking on too many players at once to then misplace an easy pass or choose the wrong option. I know he isn't really a playmaker or a goalscorer, but I feel like he doesn't contribute with enough goals and assists in comparison to how he played for Colombia in the past few tournaments and Fiorentina before that... To be honest (probably because I'm always a bit pessimistic at the beginning of a new season and concerned about Juve living up to the hype...haha), although our transfer campaign started off really well and generally seemed to be very strong, I'm still a bit skeptical, as I'm not sure how much our team has actually improved: although we found a prolific, world-class striker in Higuain, we lost Morata (who isn't as good, but his goals were certainly decisive, something which I can hope Higuain can also prove to be) and Zaza was also loaned out, and although we got a talented player like Pjanic as our playmaker, we lost Pogba and we didn't even end up getting another midfielder, which really annoys me; we did get Dani Alves at least, who seems to really add another dimension to the team with his speed, attacking drive, skill on the ball and passing. Hopefully Pjaca will be good as well (although we also lost Pereyra who was a good sub to have), otherwise Cuadrado is back on loan and Benatia, who was great for Roma, also came on loan while we got rid of Caceres (a shame since he was solid, but injury prone), so it feels like we might have improved a bit, but we sort of exchanged certain players for others. I suppose we have Asamoah back now and Marchisio will be back in January, and Dybala is still young and will hopefully continue to improve and play this well, but it feels like we got rid of a lot of younger players who had potential. Fingers crossed I suppose...really hope we can somehow win the Champions League in the next two seasons, or at least go far in Europe!
I'm grateful for everything Lichsteiner has done for us, but even though Dani Alves is getting older, I really think he's a big improvement (except maybe defensively, but we have three great centre-backs and some good defensive midfielders, and Alex Sandro is still great defensively as a full-back even though he's also good going forward), as I really felt like we needed some quality two-way full-backs to truly exploit the 3–5-2 and 4–3–1–2 formations, and hopefully as both our full-backs are Brazilian, they will develop a good understanding more quickly. I thought Lichsteiner was great during the first seasons with Juve, but then it felt like he forgot how to cross all of a sudden, and it became really frustrating and I felt that someone like Llorente struggled because of the lack of service from the wings (Asamoah is fortunate because now he's playing as a midfielder again so he will probably have more opportunities there); he has great stamina and can charge up and down the wing all match, and his distribution is solid, so I didn't mind that he wasn't as skilful technically, but in the past few years I felt like he wasn't quite good enough defensively or offensively when we came up against really good teams in Europe. It's a shame he will be sitting out, but he's a good sub to have and maybe he can alternate with Dani Alves in Serie A and in the Coppa Italia, whereas Dani Alves should definitely start in the Champions League in my opinion. I'm also glad Balo finally found a new team as he wasn't going to have any opportunities at Liverpool or Milan; Nice aren't bad I suppose, but it's pretty disappointing to see someone with his talent end up in an Europa League/Ligue 1 team when he had so much potential...I don't know how much exposure he will get playing there, but hopefully he can do well in the Europa Leauge at least, and maybe he will mature as the focal point of a smaller team, but I'm also worried he is a lost cause like Cassano and that it's too late for him already. On that note, I don't know what's happening with Cassano...he's also a really frustrating player...it's so disappointing to think he had so much talent and never made much out of it (he was playing for REAL MADRID! How do you not take advantage of that opportunity?! Michael Owen flopped, but the poor guy was injured half the time; Cassano didn't play because he was overeating!). He was incredible to watch when he was young (I was fortunate enough to see him live at Euro 2004 where he was our best player; that season with Roma and Italy was probably the best I've ever seen him play aside from those few seasons with Pazzini at Sampdoria); I think he was even more talented than Rooney, but it was also apparent he was too undisciplined to become a superstar. Now he's not very young anymore, in addition to being out of shape and difficult to deal with in the dressing room, so I don't think he can really contribute to a larger team if he leaves, but he still has great feet, creativity, and vision, and can pull off something incredible every now and then, so it's still fun to see him play.
Joe Hart...I think he's a great purchase for Torino, as he will bring exposure to the club, as well as possibly (and hopefully) attracting a larger English audience to Serie A, and he has international experience and will sell shirts. I've never been crazy about him as a keeper personally, but he's still a good player in my opinion, and he's better than Padelli (who is solid albeit unspectacular, but also a bit inconsistent), and probably the best English keeper since Peter Shilton (who I never saw play, but he's generally regarded as England's second greatest keeper after Gordon Banks and considered their last very good keeper); however, like his predecessors (Paul Robinson, David James, David Seaman, etc.) he is talented, but can also really be inconsistent and error-prone at times (England have been unlucky with keepers though in the past 30 years or so, whereas we often had so many great goalies...I remember they even wanted to have Carlo Cudicini play for England at a time, which might have helped their situation if he had actually been eligible). As Buffon says, on his day, Hart is one of the best keepers in the world, and he showed that with some of his performances when Manchester City won the Premier League, and in the Champions League last season, where it finally seemed that he had fulfilled his potential; however, at the Euros, he mades some terrible and decisive errors, which is his problem; I know everyone makes mistakes (even the greatest keepers), but he's in his prime and shouldn't be making quite so many to be considered one of the very best; having said that, I think he's a top-10 goalkeeper in the world and I think it's a bit unfair the way Pep has treated him considering his role in the club's recent success, although I understand that he wants a keeper who is better on the ball and at kicking like Bravo to suit his coaching style, although Hart is also quick off his line at least, and has a better positional sense in my opinion. Both are athletic and reactive keepers and good shot-stoppers (maybe Bravo is slightly better in those areas), solid but not amazing on crosses (Hart is larger and stronger there possibly), although overall maybe I would say Bravo is the better keeper because of his consistency, even though he's getting older now; what do you think? I know most of the top English teams like Chelsea, Man U, and Arsenal (even Tottenham and Leicester) have good or at least decent keepers, but I'm really surprised no other good or at least ambitious Premier League teams like Liverpool, or West Ham or Everton picked him up (he's better than Mignolet don't you think?), or even a Serie A team like Roma (Szczęsny does not really exude confidence in goal in my opinion). I suppose we'll have to wait and say how he does, and the league is more defensvely oriented from a tactical standpoint so it might suit him, but the language barrier might also impede him from communicating well with his defenders which might be an issue... I have to admit that I've always been perplexed by the fact that Buffon thought he was one of the top three keepers in the world, but if anyone knows if a keeper is good or not, it's him! Anyway, sorry for the long responses; best regards! Messirulez (talk) 04:45, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
@Messirulez: Yeah, I know what you mean about Cuadrado, but it is good to have him back nonetheless. And yes, maybe Balo won't get as much exposure with Nice, and although they're in Europa league, so is Pogba with Manchester after all! I suppose it's a bit different as the Ligue 1 itself isn't as good, but hopefully he can do well there and make his presence known even without a huge club. And yes, that was a bad move to sell a mid, Pogba, and get no "replacement"... although I heard it was more of Zenit's fault that the deal fell through since they were the ones who failed to give the last go ahead call. I guess Bravo is slightly better at this point, but I was also shocked that no BPL teams wanted to pick him up! Hart is probably better than Mignolet...Mignolet isn't really anything special. As I said before, I really only follow the teams I like (Juve, Toronto, and Lazio on the side and Serie A generally on a whole).. not too familiar with English/English league/MLS players in general. You are really well versed in everything football from most leagues no matter who it is it seems; good for you! The language barrier will definitely be an issue. I saw some good news today that by 2018, the top four leagues will have 4 CL spots. So as the coefficient stands, Serie A would get one extra space. That would be great for Italian football! Although, it would be nicer to achieve that feat our self by surpassing BPL, but nevertheless a good call. I didn't get a chance to watch the Italy game today, but by the highlights, we need to work on the marking a bit better. On the first goal Chiellini kind of messed up and on the second, it was just bad marking from two defenders. The third on Donnarumma was unfortunate and at a tight angle. But at least Donnarumma got a cap! What an achievement for him at just 17! I sat on the couch playing FIFA at 17! Pelle's goal was pretty good though actually, good low ball in and good pivot and good placement to flat foot the goalie to the other side of the net. Hopefully Italy picks it up for the game on Monday as that is the one that counts; they can't underestimate Israel. That match, although seemingly "easy" must be taken with care as I believe it is an away match and it is a must win type of game in a qualifying group that Italy are faced with! Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 23:21, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
Yeah, Hart is better than Mignolet for sure, which is why I don't get why Liverpool didn't pick him up...yeah I also saw that the Witsel deal fell through because of Zenit...a shame. I saw the news about the UEFA Coefficient, which is great for us; I just hope they don't change the format of the Champions League, like when they suggested an actual "league" at one point (they were suggesting to do the same thing for international friendlies)... the tournament format is always more exciting. Yeah, against France it was "only a friendly", but Chiellini's marking wasn't great on the first goal; he should have picked up that ball, and Gigi didn't seem to fully try and save it (I hope he'll be in good form this year as well, as he said himself that every year after 30 is like two, and every year aftter 35 is almost like 5...). The second goal also could have been avoided. It's a shame because at the beginning I thought we looked really good and played well and we did well to grab the equaliser soon after, but then we fell apart and they scored almost immediately after that. We probably deserved to lose only 2–1 even though they had chances and dominated; 3–1 was still a little harsh for me. We definitely missed having Bonucci to advance on the ball and play it out as they were trying to clog up our midfield and impede easy passes to the midfielders out of our defence; it was rather disappointing for the most part and Astori misplaced several passes, as did Bonaventura (he did well in a few one on one situations, and has talent, but I didn't think he played very well); hopefully once Verratti and Marchisio are back that will help. Parolo and Candreva were solid and De Sciglio was ok, started off well but then he didn't do much. Rugani was solid I thought although the defence was shaky overall. Upfront Belotti worked hard but didn't really have many chances. Pele and Eder did well on the goal, but other than that not much; Eder worked hard defensively but that's about it. Donnarumma...I thought he did really well apart from the goal; he held onto Pogba's free-kick as well as another shot from distance when it wasn't easy, and that got a big applause, and he rushed out a few times or cut out some crosses. The goal...it was a mistake but it was also unfortunate; Kurzawa is a solid attacking full-back who does get some goals, but that was still a fluke to me; 9 times out of 10 he would not have made a shot accurate enough to sneak between the keeper and the post and would have crossed instead or had a shot saved; unfortunately although Gigi was smart to anticipate the cross, that wasn't the play that followed and he gave away his intentions to soon and left his post a little open. He's only 17 though...it's just a shame that happened on his debut...I was hoping he wouldn't concede - regardless he did well and it's incredible to be the youngest goalie to play for Italy at that age...especially ahead of Buffon! Yeah I hope we get the three points comfortably against Israel, especially as we need to considering we have Spain in our group. It's a shame the under-21 side couldn't get the win against Serbia to qualify for the Euros...maybe Donnarumma, Belotti and Rugani should have played for them on this occasion - after all he let Romagnoli play with them in the end - especially as Berardi was injured; they still got a draw and have almost qualified at least; hope they can seal that up soon and have a good tournament after last year's disappointment when they deserved more in my opinion. Best regards, Messirulez (talk) 16:18, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Good to see our top transfer fee of Higuain go to good use after his brace; hopefully it continues! And finally Pjanic got a cap today after I read he had some physicality problems in the first two matches, and good to see him get a goal on the debut as well. Lichsetiner also played well toady to fling that cross in for Higuain's second goal and to clear that sure-goal off the line near the end of the match! After all the commotion surrounding him in the last couple weeks, it was good to see that out of him. I thought that the game would be closer though wit how Sassuolo has been playing; I wonder if it would've been different with Berardi playing. The goal that Sassuolo scored shouldn't even have happened. Juve have been susceptible from corners in the last couple of years, and it's getting annoying. This time it was a large mistake by Buffon, really, where he seemed to have mispunched the ball completely. But all-in-all a good confidence booster for their Champions League match next week. Unfortunately I won't be able to watch most of them, at least for the group stage, as it conflicts with my work hours...Hopefully they do well! Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 21:06, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Yeah I agree; they say that Higuain is out of shape at the moment, so if that's the case, I hope he can work hard in training, but he's been scoring so far and both goals yesterday were great finishes! Glad Pjanic finally appeared and scored; it's so good to have him on set pieces now, and he's just a really good player to have who is a creative playmaker, skilful and also works hard! Yes, you're right, for all the times I've criticised Lichsteiner, he played REALLY well at both ends, I must say, so I'm glad for him! Probably Berardi being out made a difference, but Juve have also gotten better now I think. I hope Gigi can pick things up...he was solid in the Italy games overall, but at the same time he did look a bit older in each of those games (against France he still looked quite sharp overall, but maybe he could have done more on the first goal - he seemed a bit nonchalant - while the second wasn't his fault at all; he made a good save against Israel (the goal wasn't really his fault...he was off his line but he was coming out to narrow the angle and it seemed really unlikely that the Israeli player could pull off a chip like that) but I'm surprised he gave up that rebound in the first place - it did swerve and was a hard strike, and he punched it away well to an area he could cover to his credit, but still, usually he handles those comfortably... I hope he can keep up his form from last year still as he is such a legend and it would be great to see him play well until he's 40 and hopefully win some more titles! During the game I didn't even think he got to the cross...not sure what happened there to be honest, if he lost his footing, or if people were in his way... Crosses were something he was always criticised on unfairly, as pundits (who often hadn't even played in goal) said he didn't come out enough, but usually when he came out he never missed them or dropped, them unlike other keepers who were often caught out or had shaking handling or weak punching. Hope Juve can do well in the Champions League this year...it would be a dream to see them win it... Best, Messirulez (talk) 19:42, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
@Messirulez: Ciao. Hope you're doing well. It was unfortunate we only got a single point against Sevilla for our opening Champions League match. I heard Higuain hit the crossbar...I don't know why they didn't start Pjanic. Asamoah isn't Champions League quality. Hopefully they can sort things out the next match, I think away to Zagreb, that's a must win. I was also delighted to hear about Balotelli's Nice debut! Perfect start for him with his brace and helping win over a decent Mersielle team. If he continues like that, he'll be back. It was also unfortunate to lose to Inter today, especially when they came off that terrible loss to that Israeli team in the Europa League. Hopefully Benatia's strain isn't too bad. It really annoys me when we score and the other team scores back right away. That's the worst feeling to be right back where you started. Lichsteiner played well again this match. It might be a good idea to use him more often in league matches and Dani Alves in Champions League matches for his experience in that tournament. But of course we concede off of the corner, although Buffon got slight finger tips on it. Second goal was a dumb give away by I think Asamoah if I remember correctly, and Barzagli didn't really do a good job of covering Perisic. Now we are a point behind Napoli, so that isn't good. We are going on a stretch where we don't face particularly hard teams, so Juve need to do a good job of securing wins. Good news about Marchisio set to come back sometime in October!
Last week Giovinco had an autograph signing at one of our shopping malls in Toronto, so I went. It was pretty cool to see him up close and have him sign one of my TFC shirts. He's a real shrimp at 5'4" haha. I'm going to one of their upcoming matches which will be pretty cool considering I've only seen Gio play once last year (hopefully he'll be back in the lineup in time); tickets are expensive! Maybe if they make it farther in the playoffs this year, I'll spend some money. They have confirmation of a playoff spot with their draw today. Have you ever met any players/gotten autographs? Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 19:39, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
Hi! Yeah, it was annoying we couldn't beat Sevilla with our chances, especially Khedira's early on...if Pjanic and Alex Sandro had started I think we would have won though; when they came in, especially Pjanic the game changed completely, when they had been dominating for a period. I suppose an early draw against a tough team helps to keep us grounded. There are certainly a few defensive problems even though we didn't concede an actual goalscoring opportunity, but Bonucci was making bad touches and misplacing passes all of a sudden, while Chiellini was also clumsy and lacking finesse once again. The lack of solidity was evident against Inter...it's frustrating (especially as they had a bad loss in the Europa League...they need to focus on doing better in Europe to be honest...the team actually looks decent, even though some players are inconsistent, but they have Banega, Joao Mario and Medel in midfield, Candreva on the wing, Gabilgol, Eder, Jovetic and Icardi upfront...Palacio isn't bad on the bench, either although inconsistent. Miranda is a good defender, so is Handanovic in goal, the main problem is the fullbacks and the other defenders, who aren't bad but unreliable at times - like Nagatomo, D'Ambrosio, Santon, Murillo...Melo also blows hot and cold; at times he's outstanding whereas other times he's dreadful and overly aggressive.), and we didn't play well; I'm also not sure why Higuain didn't start...Allegri has made some questionable decisions, but I can't really question his ability or record, so I'm sure he had a reason for it. Yeah, Lichsteiner did well once again so he should probably play in the Coppa Italia and in the Serie A he can alternate with Dani Alves, who should play in the Champions League (although I have to admit, considering all my criticisms of Lichsteiner's crossing after initially doing well in his first season with Juve, Alves's delivery was all over the place against Sevilla for some reason; thankfully Alex Sandro was putting some good balls in, and he almost scored from a header himself!). Hopefully everyone, Marchisio and Benatia, will be fit and well soon so we have a full team. Yeah, Balotelli started well, which I was happy about, but then in the Europa League apparently he was dreadful and was benched this weekend and everyone was bashing him...I hope he can do well though. It really annoys me how Carragher and Neville constantly criticise him; I know everyone loves them, but I find them excessively opinionated as pundits with their scathing remarks...we know his shortcomings and how he hasn't been playing well for a while and how he hasn't lived up to his potential because of his character and work-rate (but they can't still say he's overrated now when no one really wants him or rates him highly...), but he also had some good seasons when he was younger and won many titles (plus he provided the assist that won Manchester City the Premier League title). I don't know why they have to constantly bring him up; it's not like they were partcularly outstanding or talented players; they were good, solid old fashioned defenders (who could only defend and that's about it), and they mainly got to where they were because of their work-rate and consistency (which I suppose shows that even being less talented you can succeed, while you can't rely on talent alone, such as in Balotelli's case), but then again, they were also lucky to play in very good teams, and the Champions League titles they won as starters were also quite fortunate...
That's really cool you managed to get Giovinco's autograph and see him up close! Were you able to get a selfie with him or anything Yeah, the games are expensive, but it would definitely be cool to go see him play live with what he can do, darting past players and tearing up defences, making nice passes and scoring with great stirkes... I haven't been to too many matches but when I have I was able to see some players walk by fairly up close which was really cool, althogh I don't have too many autographs; I managed to get Simone Perrotta's one time after an Italy friendly. However, once I was actually extremely fortunate to bump into Messi purely by chance...haha, it was so unexpected that I didn't even realise it was him at first! I was almost scared to go up to him, as he must deal with so many crazy fans who invade his personal space and harass him, and I've heard that sometimes celebrities don't like you going up to them, but he was nice about it, even though he seems to be quite a reserved person; he didn't seem as small as he actually is though, funnily enough...I suppose he's so good that he must emit this aura of grandure, haha.

Best regards, Messirulez (talk) 20:09, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Yeah, after hearing about the great debut Balo had, I remembered they were in Europa League and saw that they lost to Schalke...then saw he didn't start in their draw a couple days ago. Hopefully he can play tomorrow against Monaco. That's the thing, play a good game and a bad game, and they will always remember the bad...He can't let the media get to him.
So Gio's signing was from 6-7 (an hour isn't enough to allocate this to), I didn't expect there to be huge lines on a week day around rush hour...I live about half hour away so I didn't get there till 6:50 ten minutes before it ended. The line was out the door. Giovinco was signing at a desk, right, where he would sign and take pictures, the pictures is primarily the reason the line goes so slow. It's already 7:10 now and they're about to shut it down with probably 100 people in the line still. But luckily, Giovinco was nice enough to just quickly walk down the line and sign whatever you had. I was holding my shirt so he wrote on it using my palm as the surface (not a great surface to write on!) Plus his marker was probably almost out of ink at the end so needless to say the signature was kind of scribbled and faint. But nonetheless it was still cool, I just won't be able to wash the shirt again! Coming back to the selfie question, now that he was walking down the line, he was surrounded by people. I got a picture of him, but there were lots of people in the background, and I wasn't in it. So it wasn't how I planned it, but at least they didn't shut the line down on us, that would have been a real piss off to drive all the way there and not get it. Like you, I didn't really want to get up in his face, as I could see he was getting a little annoyed. Some fans are so inconsiderate swarming him; that's why players don't like doing these signing sessions because of actions like that! Perrotta's a decent signature, played well for Roma and Italy. Where'd you get him to sign, your shirt? That's awesome you saw Messi! What, just walking down the street randomly? In Italy? Did he sign anything of yours or you just talked to him for a sec? Yeah, you wouldn't expect Messi to be walking around as I'm surprised he wasn't already mobbed with fans? Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 22:16, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
@Messirulez: By the scoreline, Balo did amazing! Got two goals and smoked a good Monaco team 4-0 to claim top of the table! I hope he can also play games like that in Europa League, but really good for him, glad to see this. Good to see Juve claim back top of the table today as well! Also good to see new faces score like Rugani and Dani Alves. I don't know about you, but I couldn't watch this mid-week game unfortunately, but the scoreline suggests we were all over them. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 22:07, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
@Messirulez: Hi again, I know you've been offline for a while, so don't worry, take your time. Firstly, good huge win over Zagreb after a dismal game over Palermo despite the three points. Also good to see Dybala break his goal drought. Now a question: Do you know what the Serie A's (or football in general) policy is on goalkeepers clean sheets when substituted? Like in Juve's win over Cagliari, Buffon was substituted for Neto and both let in no goals, so who gets the clean sheet? Even with the personal statistic of Buffon's 271 clean sheets in Serie A, do you know if that includes substitute clean sheets? I asked the question at WT:FOOTY#Who gets the clean sheet?, but got mixed answers saying that maybe both should get it, neither, the last one who played, or they would need to stay in the match for a certain amount of minutes for the clean sheet to be obtained. The odd thing is, is that we cannot find any concrete source on this matter...Maybe there are Italian sources that are better or more accessible on this matter? Thoughts? Thanks. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 01:28, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
Hi! Sorry I haven't been on in a while! Yeah, Balo has been scoring, which is good! Juve have gotten some good wins, and had a big win in the Champions Leauge; even though it wasn't the toughest opponent, I feel like in the past we would have struggled to win by that margin away from home against a smaller side, so I think it was an encouraging result. Hmmm...I'm really not sure about the clean-sheet issue; I thought that if the team doesn't concede goals at all, then the goalkeeper who comes on gets the clean-sheet, not the one who has been substituted (even if they haven't conceded), so I don't think it counts as a Buffon clean-sheet, but to be honest I don't know for sure as I have also heard conflicting information and I haven't really found any sources to back this up either. I have also heard in the past that a clean sheet is only awarded for not conceding and playing at least 60 minutes, but once again I'm not sure if those are the official rules or not. Best regards, Messirulez (talk) 13:59, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Glad you're back, your work is needed :) ... Yep, Juve have been doing good, Dybala is back to form by the looks of it and Higuain and Pjanic are also playing well as new signings. Really surprised Balo didn't get a call up for everything he has shown in the past few games! Balotelli > Belotti+Eder+Gabbiadini+Immobile+Pelle+Sansone callups! We need a win against Spain! If he continues like this, he better be calledup in November. The clean sheet rule is so very odd with absolutely nothing concrete I've seen... Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 14:08, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Hey, how's it going? I was so happy to see Buffon show that he is still a world class keeper during the Lyon game! Two or three wonderful saves; just what he needed after the mistake against Spain and Udinese. Also good that Juve could get the win even with a man down. Five minutes into Cuadrado coming on, he snipes it from such an acute angle; what a goal! Sevilla also won their match so they're just behind us on goal differential; the second leg against them will be important. I hope that Balo's injury isn't too bad, I don't even know what happened to him really. The last thing I remember seeing was him miss that penalty; luckily they still won that game. Nice are still at the top in his absence, which is good. Too bad Juve couldn't get the win in the rivalry with Milan. Very unlucky the goal was called off...I know Serie A is doing pilot testing with video review this season (I think they might be sharing it with the refs, but not the public...I wonder if that had anything to do with it). It didn't look like Bonucci was offside, his feet were just behind the defender, but his body was lunged forward so perhaps that's what the ref saw...Pjanic's free kick took a funny bounce and since Bonucci tried to redirect it with his long foot, it through Donnarumma off guard. Was the reason for the disallowed goal because they thought Bonucci was offside and even though he didn't touch the ball, the offside player still "interfered" with the play? Now I hear it was because Benatia was offside...which is even more ridiculous because he didn't even do anything in that play. Locatelli's strike was brilliant though. They just let him walk in though, not enough pressure from Alex Sandro. It would've been cool to see Marchisio play after being out for so long. Hopefully Dybala's injury isn't bad and Chiellini comes back soon.
Even though TFC won today, so did NYCFC so they didn't get the automatic bye to the semis as they finished 3rd. They face Philly in the next round, just a won came playout. If they make it past that, they face NYCFC in the semis, I would love to see that game live; I'll definitely try to buy if it happens! TFC went on a five game winless run though I think while Gio was out...longer than expected (thanks for that edit :) ) It kind of annoyed me though how he went to the Eros concert in Toronto just before he came back from injury, the same day TFC were playing. I really think he was milking it in nearing the end of his time off. Watch him play some calcio on stage! The team really could have benefited with him even if he came back a game or two earlier and could've gotten the bye! I hope I'm wrong about him not really being injured nearing the end, because your team always comes first, not an Eros concert. Anyway, lets hope they can do well in the playoffs, unlike last year!
Good Juve win today, pleasant surprise to see Chiellini score two goals. Cuardrado also delivered a great ball into the box for Mandzukic. Big match with Napoli on Saturday. In other news, TFC won over Philly 3-1 in the first playoff round; great start! They face NYCFC on Sunday in Toronto, and I bought tickets; so excited to see Gio, Pirlo and Villa!! Costed about 100 bucks, but I couldn't miss this opportunity to see these guys play in a match like this!
Good Juve got the win today, even though their performance wasn't great. Also funny to rub the salt in Napoli's wound by Higuain getting the winning goal. I read that they didn't allow any Napoli fans to go to the game since they were worried about reckless brawls, and the same for Juve's away match in Napoli; I would be scared for my life if I were Higuain. A lot of people said he should celebrate if he scored, but he didn't, I think it was the right call. We needed to supply more balls to Higuain, which we didn't do a good job at doing for a while. I don't think Hernanes should start, we have Marchisio now, he should play. But Napoli is a good side, so credit to them; at least we are 7 points clear from them now. Looking ahead for next week's Lyon match.
Ah, that TFC game was awesome! Atmosphere is always great. Great win to go 2-0 in the last five minutes. Gio was well covered throughout the game; fouled several times. I couldn't believe Pirlo pulled out an hour before the match with a "calf injury" during training...This guy never plays in Toronto, just like in January! When I saw the injury notification on my phone, I didn't believe it, even though I knew in the back of my mind something stupid would happen; I'm not that lucky. We still got to see Villa and Lampard, and Gio of course, but what a shame Pirlo couldn't play. Hopefully we hold them off in the away return leg next Sunday to get to the Eastern Conference Finals. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 02:12, 24 October 2016 (UTC) Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 02:12, 27 October 2016 (UTC) Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 22:19, 29 October 2016 (UTC) Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 02:46, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
Hi! Sorry for the late reply!
  • 1.) Yes, great performance by Buffon to save an important win over Lyon to keep us first in the group, especially after a few shaky performances and some mistakes against Sassuolo, Spain and Udinese, as well as a few soft goals; I really hope he can keep playing well this year, and hopefully next year as well, and I would love to see us win the Champions League in his last two seasons, as it would also be great for players like Barzagli, Chiellini, Marchisio and Bonucci, who have formed the backbone of the national side and Juve these past years, and who aren't the youngest players anymore. Cuadrado scored a great goal to win it, and despite my criticism of him, he has been playing really well (even with his asssit to Chiellini, who did well to get a brace in the last league match), so I hope he can keep it up against the bigger teams and replicate the performances he produced with Fiorentina and Colombia in 2014. Balo seems to be ok now and is still doing well, which is good, and Nice are still first, which is great; I know it's still early, and PSG will be tough to beat even without Ibra, but imagine if he could lead them to win the Ligue 1 title! I hope he can keep scoring and playing well and hopefully "find himself" with Nice. Yeah, shame about the loss to Milan; not quite the rivalry it used to be either unfortunately! But Milan seem to be developing a young team with some promising Italian players, which is good for the national and under-21 side, so hopeflly it will lead to something. It was a great finish by Locatelli, who has been doing well and has potential even though he's still very young, but yeah it was a bit of a defensive misunderstanding, but then again I would rather have a win in the Champions League followed by a loss in Serie A at the moment! We are still first and I think we do have the strongest side, so I would really like us to top our group in the Champions League so that we can try and get a good draw and go as far as we can in the competition. Yeah, I'm not sure why the goal by Pjanic on the free-kick was ruled out when it would have shown to be valid if they had used the video technology...from the video they should be able to see that Bonucci was onside even though he attempted to go for the ball...oh well; it wasn't supposed to be an indirect free-kick or anything, so I don't get it. Benatia was offside, but he didn't interfere with the play, so I agree, the offside call can't have given been because of him. And yes, I hope Dybala gets well soon as he was really starting to pick things up, even though he's playing in a deeper, more creative role; I was also hoping to see him get his first goal for Argentina over the international break; he's been criticised, but when he came on Argentina started playing a lot better, and I'm sure he would have scored the penalty, unlike Aguero. It's crazy how badly they have done without Messi, considering they have criticised him so much. We'll see how they do now that Messi is back and has been playing well with Barcelona.
  • 2.) Yes, great result for TFC! I know Giovinco was out a while, so I'm hoping it was because he wanted to be 100% and not because he was milking it...I have seen players come on TV shows when they weren't quite fully recovered, but almost, to do kick-ups and things (like Baggio and Del Piero) in the past, so I think they can probably still do that when they have mostly recovered, but probably nothing more; he certainly played well towards the end of the season to help TFC finish third and play at home in the play-offs, and he did really well in the play-off knockout game as well to earn the club their first ever win at that stage, scoring TFC's first ever playoff goal and was involved in the next two; he really drove the Philadelphia defenders crazy with his skills! In general I thought the team's level of play in that game was much better compared to the rest of the season, and now it looks good for Toronto as they won 2–0 against NYFC last night as well...did you enjoy the game? That must have been pretty exciting to see all those players and win it so close to the end; great for the team to get a clean-sheet against Villa and co. as well! I'm sure Giovinco could have been the top scorer and creator again this season if he hadn't been injured, as he still finished third in the scoring race and second in the assists ranking. Not sure if he will win the MVP award because of that, but hopefully he can drag TFC to an historic win in the Playoffs and win the Playoffs MVP award! And I hope he can do well in the CONCACAF Champions League next year as well and hopefully Ventura will call him and Balo up again.
  • 3.) Yeah, I'm glad Juve got those wins, especially a tough victory against Napoli at the weekend, and it was great that Higuain was able to score again (hopefully he will get in shape and he and Pjanic will start permanently in big games), even though I do sympathise with Napoli (I know it's crazy that I can support two rival teams), because I have family in that area...I think he was right not to celebrate; maybe next year if he us still around and scores against Napoli...yeah the fans can be pretty wild...they are probably worried about the rivalry, and the Juve fans have also said chanted some very offensive things towards the Napoli fans...the entire situation needs to be sorted it as there are too many crazy, extremist and racist fans (especially right wing ones) in Italian football, and the environment is so negative, aggressive, dangerous and antagonistic, and not particularly fun. And it's possible to identify people who are being disruptive or behaving dangerously and ban them from attending games and fine them with technology today; isn't that what happened at the Blue Jays game with the fan that threw a beer can at a player? It was a stupid thing to do, but I admit that hearing about all the commotion that the incident caused was almost laughable when you consider that Dida being hit by a flare was considered to be a normal occurrence (even though Milan were handed the 3–0 win against Inter in the end). Even the fan that threw the banana at Dani Alves was identified and banned by his club, so I don't see why that can't be done in Italy...the Ultras have too much power. Yes, Juve's performances haven't always been great, but the important thing is we are grinding out results, kind of like we used to with Lippi and Capello, so I hope we can also do that in Europe and convince in the Champions League against Lyon at home, considering we were lucky to win away, mainly thanks to Buffon's heroics; hopefully with Marchisio back instead of Hernanes, our midfield will be much stronger, and hopefully Marchisio's creativity and work-rate will give Pjanic more freedom and less pressure...I'm excited to see how Marchisio, Pjanic and Khedira play together in a big Champios League match...it's just a shame Dybala is out, because it will be great to see the first team play when all our players are completely fit.

Best, Messirulez (talk) 13:00, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Yeah, it's clear Juve is still the strongest team, and with a win over Napoli and Roma drawing to Empoli, we're in a pretty good spot. Most of our injuries are back, I think Asamoha (not that we really need him) and Rugani should be back, or if not yet, soon. Chiellini is injured once again, so we may need Rugani. Chiellini has already been injured two or three times this season which is odd. Other than last season where he had a pretty bad injury season as well, I never found him prone to many injuries. Marchisio back should be a good asset once again. Too bad Florenzi suffered from the same ACL injury ruling him out for about six months not too long ago. Verratti has also been linked with movement from PSG, I wonder how true it is though. It would be really cool to see Balo win the title with Nice since Verratti has already done it a couple times. He scored the other day again. I read Ventura won't be calling up Pele for the international call ups in a couple weeks so I wonder if he will consider Balo now. Surely we won't call Gio if Toronto manages to eliminate NYCFC. The TFC game last night was really fun. I've been to a couple this year, but when Gio was out; saw him play last year though, but I've never been to a playoff game and thought the opportinity to see a high stake game with Gio, Villa, Lampard, and Pirlo would be beyond amazing. I was really upset when Pirlo couldn't make it on like I said above, but he did make it to the stadium. A couple buddies of mine came with me and one of them actually got a picture with him, he waited like an extra hour; it was late so the rest of us went home, but if I'd've known we'd see him for sure we'd've gone. That would've been cool. But a "calf strain" they called it...an hour before kick off...didn't make sense to me. I'm always skeptical about these calls like Gio's injury too as it lasted a couple weeks longer than it was estimated, and it didn't even look that bad of an injury to begin with. But I guess we don't want to make things worse to play them too early. But still disappointing when people buy tickets specifically to watch these high profile guys play; you buy them to play, not be on the bench... But anyway, the actually game was great, 0-0 for the most part, but still intense. We were dominating NYCFC for most of the match, and finally had our breakthrough with the last five minutes. Really great we got that second goal and didn't just sit back on 1-0 like Juve probably would've done ahhaha; 2-0 is a great scoreline to be gonig into the next leg with. If we can get an away goal on Sunday, it'll be done. It would be great to see a 401 Derby with TFC and Montreal if the two should make it through. Montreal got a little lucky with the Red Bulls, but that Italian player, Matteo Mancosu, you were talking about a while back, scored a pretty nice goal though. And yes, I think since they won the Canadian Championship, they made it to their Champions League, so that should be fun to see; I think only one Canadian team makes it so hopefully we represent well. Yeah, the fans can get pretty crazy over here too. The Blue Jays incident was kind of stupid though, I don't think it ever made it to hit a player, I think it just landed on the field. Bu even last night the TFC ultras chanted "This is our house, get the fuck out!", pretty funny, but there are children in the stadium I suppose. I can imagine they've done a lot worse in Europe easily. The ultras at BMO Field though made the match a lot more enjoyable, they carried the game with other cool chants. They don't fire flares, but they always let red and white smoke go and it blows everywhere which is cool. We chant "Suhhhbastiaaaan Giooovinncccooo" sometimes, especially when he comes close, or has a good free kick spot which is always fun. Also stomp on the metal floor boards to make some noise around the stadium. The atmosphere is just amazing. We exploded when they got the late winner. We were waiting all game to celebrate a goal since we could feel it coming with all our chances. So let's hope for the best. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 22:22, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

  • Yes, Chiellini has been quite injury prone these past few seasons, which isn't good, especially as he isn't that young anymore and doesn't quite seem as sharp (especially on the ball), so the injuries don't help; I would really like to see him finally win the Champions League this year (along with Buffon, Marchisio, Bonucci, and Barzagli, as I have already said many times...) so I hope he can pull through and put in a dominant performance in the competition. Yeah, Florenzi's injury is bad, which is annoying as we needed him for Italy's World Cup qualifying games...so frustrating to see someone talented, young, and important like him out for so long with a serious injury; I hope it doesn't affect him once he is fit. Yeah, maybe Balo will make a return, but I have a feeling that he will only be called up if he keeps playing like this into the new year, as there is a certain prejudice towards him now, like there was with Lippi towards Cassano. Yes, TFC have very passionate fans, especially with all the Portuguese, Latin-American and Italian immigrants, so it almost sounds like a European match, but yes, although they are loud, they are definitely more tame than in Italy, but that's certainly a good thing! Yes, the swearing is unnecessary, but that happens everywhere, unfortunately, which is frustrating when sports games are also supposed to oriented towards everyone, including families with children. I didn't see the game TFC–NYCFC game, but I watched the highlights and it looked like a really good match and Toronto looked a lot more solid than usual, and 2–0 is a good result at home going into the second leg. I'm sure it must've been a fun match to be at, especially as it was TFC's most important game in their history, and they were playing against a team with good players, like Villa, Lampard, Iraola, as well as some other solid MLS players. Yes, it's a shame Pirlo was injured though, especially last minute...I don't know if Pirlo would have exaggerated an injury though; he has certainly been susceptible to them recently, so I certainly hope not as that would be very disappointing behaviour from a player of his calibre, reputation and professionalism. I know the media have accused Pirlo of not caring or trying, but to me that's ridiculous; he always had this calmness about him when he was playing at the top level, but that's just because he was so good and cool under pressure and knew what to do before everyone else...they guy lives to play football, and has won everything as a protagonist, so I'm sure that if he had been fit he would have played, especially given his experience, and as this is still a big game, even though it's in the MLS Playoffs, not the Champions League...otherwise he probably would have retired if he felt unmotivated, and I'm sure he could have gone elsewhere to coach if he really needed or wanted more money. He is also quite old now, so I guess if he had picked up a minor injury, they didn't want to risk playing him or hurting him more if they needed fresh legs for a playoff game, especially due to his lack of pace and physicality (especially playing alongside another "golden oldie" like Lampard), and as his defensive work-rate has been criticised (although I saw he has provided eleven assists, so he can't be playing that badly...I'm just surprised he hasn't scored more free-kicks seeing how many giovinco has scored!). It's hard to say; if he had played, but done badly because of a lack of fitness, then he and Viera might have equally been lambasted by the media. Yeah, I know it also seemed that Giovinco might have milked it, but you really can't tell with injuries anymore, even if the challenges seem innocuous; in the 2010 World Cup, Buffon had a sore back, and in the end it was a herniated disk and he was out for half the season; one time Baggio got his studs stuck when the pitch was very muddy, and he yanked his leg in a funny way when pulling them out of the ground, and he ended up tearing his meniscus and was out for most of the season... Yeah I saw that Mancosu has been playing quite well for Montreal, with a few decisive goals and assists, which is always good, while Drogba has been acting out and hasn't been playing, whereas last year he was playing really well. I would like to see Montreal go through to the Eastern Conference Final with Toronto, as Montreal also have a few Italians, like Donadel as well. I hope TFC can do it in the second leg; it would be great to see Giovinco even lead them all the way!

Best, Messirulez (talk) 20:48, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Yeah, shame about Chiellini and Florenzi, and maybe even Pjanic after today's match...the injuries are piling up. Yeah, the TFC match was fun, fans are without question tamer than Italy, but I think it is the perfect amount of craziness haha...yet to go to a game in Italy; one of these days. I'm probably just being dramatic and frustrated that Pirlo didn't play, especially since that's the game I bought tickets for, but you can never be mad at Pirlo hahaa; same for Gio. I'm surprised Gio was snubbed for the MVP award today...almost without a doubt he is the best player in the league, but probably since he won it last year they already ruled him out...politics. Villa made the list...he's good, but I don't know if he should be on there. At the NYCFC game he kicked Armando Cooper in the first half! It went uncalled; MLS reviewed it today and said he won't be sanctioned and will be available for the second leg. Quite stunning. I like Cooper too, fast and creative, lucky it didn't seriously hurt him. I'm also surprised that Pirlo's only scored one free kick...even though his assist tally is pretty good for the season (saw your edit). Another funny thing is that he's played 32/34 games this season and the two he missed was one at BMO field...and another in the playoffs now. This is why I'm a little frustrated with him hahaah.
I was fortunate enough to finish a little early this afternoon and since Europe already changed their clocks (we still need to change them this Sunday), the game started an hour later than usual for us, so I was home in time to watch the second half...but the performance was really lackluster...Higuain missed a good opportunity to go two up in the first half I saw. Not a great pass by Mandzukic, but Higuain should have a could have done a lot better than to sky it. From what I saw Marchisio played a little sloppy, a few passes weren't completed and his foul he gave costed us the goal from that free kick when he could've just passed it up the field instead of trying to be fancy with it in our own end. He was close to scoring though with that strike from the top of the box. You could criticize Buffon a little for not coming out to punch the cross or intervene in some way, but there isn't much time to decide, so I'm not blaming it all on Buffon. Sturaro played sloppy as well despite drawing the penalty I think. That was sad how he lost sight of the ball and spun around like a dog chasing his tail! I would've also liked to see Cuadrado come on a little earlier...coming on in the 84th minute is tough to get into the game, even though he was hustling well. Classic Juve relying on one goal. Barzagli did a really good job getting a touch to that shot that could've made it 2-1 Lyon right at the end; he didn't give up on the play even after he made a little mistake. If Juve won today, they would've gotten the job done today by ensuring promotion to the next round. Now they face Sevilla next...they need a result...second place needs to be avoided unless they want a similar fate like last year. Best of luck for TFC and Juve. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 22:29, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
Yes, that is annoying that Pirlo also didn't play the last time he was in Toronto...hopefully just an unfortunate coinidence! Yes, the Champions League match was terrible; Juve seemed to be doing ok when we scored the penalty, but then we started playing behind the ball as if we were facing Bayern Munich or Barcelona...last year we dominated Manchester City, so I have no idea why this year we played like that at home when we arguably have a better team, even without Chiellini at the back. It's annoying that after all the pressure, we conceded a stupid goal from a set-piece (yes, probably Marchisio was a bit too elaborate there and on other occasions, but I guess it's evident he's still not 100%, as his passing is a bit sloppy, but he does give an added presence), and maybe Buffon should have come out (he did well to save the first shot at the beginning of the match), but we should have also dealt with it better...Allegri didn't look happy; he stormed off after the game - I can understand, conceding in the final ten minutes and then finally producing some attacking moves...we didn't really have a good shot on target, although Higuain and Mandzukic (who was probably one of the better Juve players) should have done better. I was a bit disappointed about how Pjanic did in midfield considering Marchisio's presence, although in general the midfield didn't click, and Sturaro tried hard but was slopppy, especially when he took a bad touch and lost track of the ball; and even Khedira gave the ball away which led to Pjanic conceding a free kick in a good position. Cuadrado came on late, but didn't really have an impact and was being his usual selfish tactically unaware self, even though he had been playing really well as of late, which is annoying...I'm also annoyed about all these injuries...Bonucci seemed to pull something and eventually went off (although he still made a few great passes behind Lyon's defence to Sturaro - apparently he will be out for a few games), Pjanic went off (I hope it's nothing...the Lyon player should have been given a yellow card for that challenge - he was never going to get there, as Pjanic was clearing the ball, and it was an offensive foul; the referee didn't handle the match too well at times; too many bookings and bad challenges), and Dani Alves got a boot to the face (and could barely see out of his right eye because his cheek had swollen so much - he didn't play too well, but I can't really blame him..). I wish Alex Sandro had come on earlier...I get that Allegri is playing Evra as a defensive full-back and Dani Alves as an offensive one, but Dani Alves hasn't seemed quite as threataning as of late, and Sandro is quick and works hard defensively as well and can cover the flank...plus I feel like he and Dani Alves could develop a good understanding. Yes, it's so annoying to draw this match at home when we still managed to pull off a fortunate win away, and Sevilla won their match in the meantime and are first...now we have to beat them or we risk finishing in second place...again...and getting another awful draw like last year, after already getting a group that wasn't the easiest...Yes, Barzagli did really well to block that chance, after an uncharacteristic error...he's not the most technically gifted defender, but usually he's confident in possession and comfortable on the ball, so I was surprised at the bad touch, although it was a high ball which wasn't easy to control and he was under pressure...he made a few other good blocks, interceptions and challenges during the game. Hasn't been a great European Campgain for the Italian teams...Sassuolo were doing so well yesterday, but then they conceded two goals in the last 10 minutes and ended up tying; now it won't be easy to go through, and their group is so close and all over the place...they have been unlucky, and I really hope they go through as they play well and have a lot of interesting young players, many of whom are Italian; hopefully Berardi will be back soon and can help out the team in the last two matches. Inter flopped once again after leading...I don't know what their problem is as their squad looks pretty good; maybe it was as they hadn't had a pre-season with De Boer...but, aside from a shaky defence and inconsistent full-backs (although Ranocchia, Murillo, Santon, D'Ambrosio and Nagatomo aren't great, but not terrible either, especially against the opposition they have been facing in Italy and the Europa league...they should be looking at a Champions League spot in Serie A and a quarter-final finish in the EL in my opinion...I'm sure it's a management problem, like they have had in the past, when they had amazing squads but did dreadfully), they still have Miranda in front of Handanovic in goal, and in midfield they have Joao Mario, Medel and Banega....then Candreva on the wing, Icardi up-front as a main striker, and players like Eder, Gabigol and Jovetic as well...and even Melo and Palacio are on the bench.
Thanks for adding sources to the earlier sections of the Giovinco article, and for nominating it...I'll see if I can touch up the lead a bit, although I'm not sure how much to add, even if it is a bit brief, as there isn't a whole lot to say...do you think the Juventus section has enough information? He didn't fully break into the starting line-up so I think it's fairly comprehensive; I might just add in some translations to the Italian football jargon (e.g. trequartista/rfinitore/fantasista). Yes the others (Baggio, Pogba and Del Piero) are taking a while to be reviewed...I'm not sure about the Totti one...I wanted to see if it got upgraded to B-class first maybe, but I think it was been improved now, and it definitely has a lot more sources...I don't think I've missed anything major out, and I think I removed most of the irrelevant sections of text, and you fixed up the headings, etc. so maybe it could be nominated again.

Best, Messirulez (talk) 12:47, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Yes, Juve have put themselves in a little bit of a hole...hopefully they can dig out with a needed win against Sevilla. I saw Allegri storm out with seconds of the whistle...wasn't happy. I can see Dani Alves and Alex Sandro having a good understanding playing with each other, both Brazilian, etc, but they don't always get the chance to do so. Yeah Cuadrado wasn't a big help when he came on, but in his defence, he didn't have much time despite some of his selfish plays. Hopefully Marchisio gets back into the groove of things soon. And hopefully the rest of our injuries clear up...always frustrating to have players out.

Thanks for all those additions on Gio's page; love the lead! I think all the sections are substantially long enough. I think the article would pass without question once reviewed. It would be great to have an Italian TFC all star at GA status! When I was going through it yesterday I also noticed the Italian jargon. I don't usually like to use "Juve" short form in articles or nicknames like Bianconero as I think I saw the reviewer didn't like that on Del Piero's first review...and it makes sense if you don't know anything about the team, you might be confused as to what that means. And the positioning jargon I didn't really know what to do with since they put a lot of terms together and thought it would be hard to explain all at once, but you did a good job with it. I'll probably nominate Totti's article one of these days again since we've done a pretty good job with it since. Maybe I'll message the reviewer who reviewed it from before to see if he'll review if again for us, this way if he agrees it will get reviewed a lot faster probably (only thing was that he was a little harsh)...but it should be up to par now. I'll let you know. Thanks again, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 16:11, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Ciao! First off, thanks for helping with the IP that was changing the heights of a select few Italian players. I reverted him a good amount o times, warned him on his talk page heavily and he persisted so much, I reported him at WP:AIV, got him blocked, and started to do it again with a different IP address (which was blocked once again)! Some people man... Anyway, good Juve got the three points in the end today, and good for Buffon for achieving such a milestone of 600 caps. Really unfortunate about Barzagli being stretchered off and dislocating his shoulder...Juve's injuries are becoming worse and worse. Cuadrado played much better today I thought, he made a great pass to Mandzukic for the first goal and provided a few good balls. The penalty given away by Lichsteiner wasn't good but he needed to do something or that would've been a highly probable goal. It would've been cool to see Buffon make a penalty save on his 600th appearance, although the save he made to keep Juve 1-0 earlier on was pretty good. Then Pjanic's free kick goal was amazing; who needs Pirlo right?? hahha. Then he almost scored another one later on, but Sorrentino made a good stop. Then in the last 10 minutes or so, Juve were missing more chances one after the other that looked to be sure goals. Sturaro, Cuadrado and I think even Mandzukic had very clear opportunities to take the lead but either went wide or skied. If they weren't already up 2-1 at that point, it wouldn't have been as laughable; that really isn't acceptable though at any stage. Now a break for international duty.

TFC!! 5-0!! What an absolute demolition. 7-0 on aggregate and a Gio hatty. TFC dominated the whole game from start to finish, played exactly how they wanted to play and gave NYCFC nothing; even with all three of their designated players on the pitch at the same time. Ridiculous how Gio wasn't nominated for MVP... Off to play an all Canadian Conference Finals 401 Derby! I hope they can make it all the way!! Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 01:50, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
Yes; that can be irritating, although I can understand that there are conflicting sources, and I'm not thrilled by Pirlo's NYCFC Profile which has his height labelled in feet...but that's the most recent source, so I suppose it's best to use that; once he retires I might switch it to an UEFA or FIFA source in cm. Funnily enough, Gattuso's height in the FIFA source is actually listed as 1.77m, so someone must have changed it before to 1.75 without us noticing. Yeah, it was nice to get a win; shame Buffon couldn't mark his 600th serie a appearance with a penalty save and a clean sheet yes, and I'm gutted about Barzagli...all these injuries are so frustrating...maybe instead of buying Higuain for all that money, we should have invested all the earnings from Pogba's sale in better athletic coaches, personal trainers, dieticians, etc. as we always seem so sluggish and injury prone in Europe. Apparently Marchisio is out of the Italy squad as a precaution, which is annoying, but I suppose a good thing as I don't want his injury problems worsening after he has just returned. I have to say I don't get why Ventura called up Zaza who has been really poor in the Premier League and hasn't even scored a goal yet; Pellè did much better in the Premier League, so when he was being called up I felt he deserved it. I would much rather see Balotelli and Giovinco called up, although Giovinco is busy with TFC in the MLS Playoffs at the moment (yes, great result and performance for him against NYCFC - I hope he can go all the way now! Didn't expect Toronto to win by that much away considering New York has four really good players and a few other solid ones! Hopefully he will win the MLS Playoff MVP award if he keeps playing like this, creating, and scoring, and if he can actually win the title). Yes, it wasn't a great decision or a good challenge by Lichsteiner...very clumsy stuff. Maybe he still should have avoided trying to go in for a tackle though and tried to block the shot by extending his leg in front of him rather than taking him out from behind like that...he also shouldn't have lost him or let him get in front of him unless he was sure he was in an offside position, or that he could keep up with him and get back in front or beat him in a shoulder to shoulder challenge. Pjanic is definitely the best free-kick taker in the world right now, followed by Messi (Hakan Çalhanoğlu is also really good), who is also good, but still one step down from him in my opinion; otherwise I can't think of too many players at his level from dead ball opportunities; some are still very good, like Suarez, Zlatko Junuzović, Sneijder, Payet, Coutinho, Willian, or James, but I can't think of any specialists that are at that level of consistency, and even Juninho has said he's the best. Cristiano Ronaldo used to be amazing but now his conversion rate is terrible, and Bale was very good with Tottenham, but with Real Madrid he never takes them becuase of Cristiano Ronaldo. Giovinco has been putting them away quite often, actually, even though he's playing in the MLS, but then again, taking that into consideration, I'm surprised Pirlo hasn't been scoring more, considering that I don't think his age can really affect his ability from set-pieces that much (Maradona at 50 when coaching Argentina could stil put them away in training), although I saw that Villa took one over Pirlo in a good position yesterday (why!? I know he's there top scorer and a very good free-kick taker, but he was never as good as Pirlo from set-pieces), so maybe he has been their first choice taker... I read somewhere that no one has scored as many free kicks in Serie A as Pjanic in their first five seasons (not even Baggio, Del Piero, Maradona, Zico, Platini, Pirlo, Zola, Mihajlovic, or Recoba...and those are some of the best set-piece takers of all time, excluding Beckham, Juninho, Koeman and a several others...), although Serie A doesn't quite have the keepers and defenders they used to have, and the balls spin more than they used to...it's difficult to say whether he will be better than Pirlo from set-pieces, but he is certainly an amazing free-kick taker, someone we were really missing last year, even though Pogba, Hernanes and Dybala were quite good as well. Hopefully as he begins to settle in he can really start putting them away consistently. I'm still annoyed about the result earlier in the week; to be honest, I would rather have lost against Chievo and beaten Lyon; we've won the league title five years in a row now, and it isn't really a very competitive league anymore, so I could live without winning it for once if it meant us having a chance at winning the Champions League, as long as we still managed a top 2-3 finish in Serie A to qualify for the Champions League next season. The fact that we are missing bad chances in league matches adds to the frustration that we still manage to pull off wins in the league (and the fact that Cuadrado can look like a superstar, whereas in England he flopped) despite being wasteful, whereas in the Champions League we just waste even more opportunities against opponents we should be beating given our roster (and it's annoying when we spent so much on Higuain, who doesn't seem to do as well in Europe). Hopefully Italy won't play as stupidly and can collect some good results, because qualifying for the World Cup this time round will be difficult...such a ridiculous system for the draw. I know it's early but I'm not too convinced by Ventura, but maybe once Marchisio and Verratti are back, healthy and playing together the team will look better as hopefully with them playing alongside each other we can have more control over teams in midfield. Best, Messirulez (talk) 16:13, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Ah, Gattuso's source was taking forever to load on my computer so I just assumed it to be wrong, but thanks for double checking. Yeah, the Pirlo source was annoying how it only says it in feet; I think Giovinco's might be the same. In North America we still use feet even though Canada's switched to metric like km and metres since the 70s I think, we still use feet and inches commonly for height for some odd reason. It's weird to convert a feet/inch stat into cm, not very accurate. But yeah, I would support changing the source to a UEFA one when Pirlo leaves NYCFC. Yeah such a shame about Barzagli...out for two months. At least we got Benatia over the summer. If we didn't have him we'd actually be screwed; but yes the injuries are getting annoying especially since most will be likely unavailable for Sevilla. Pjanic is really a great free kick taker; should've had the second one as well. I saw that Villa took one over Pirlo. The one where Villa just blasted it at the wall? hahha, Pirlo would be the go to man no matter what, as you say, his age shouldn't affect his free kick ability. It was a good win by Toronto, I was surprised the scored that many as well away, but I knew in the back of my mind they would progress. Just a pleasant surprise. They can really go all the way if they play like that! I would also want a Champions League over Serie A; they can win both though! But yes, hopefully they can really pick it up in Europe as they haven't been playing convincingly other than the Zagreb match. Some of the callups for Italy were weird...like the Zaza one. Like you said hasn't been playing well (or enough) for West Ham. I read today that Ventura called Giovinco playing in MLS and inferior league. That made me laugh after he's called up Pelle from China (not this time though, but not because the league because of his actions). And he said he'll have chats with Balo later on. I'll be surprised if Italy beats Lichtenstein by more than 3 goals. I wouldn't even be surprised if it's a close match since they've only beat Malta by 1 or 2 goals in recent matches! As for Germany, we'll see, it's just a friendly anyway. But this is why Spain will likely have a better goal difference so if we draw them next match we're guaranteed of not finishing in first if they win the rest of their matches. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 00:36, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Yes...speaking of weird decisions and international call-ups and Ventura's comments on Giovinco, I found this article in The Guardian, which makes me think even less of Ventura - to quote the article: "Giovinco was left out of Giampiero Ventura’s Italy squad for the upcoming World Cup qualifiers and the coach was clear about his reasons. 'I have done everything to help him but the reality is that he plays in a league that doesn’t matter much,' Ventura said. 'And the number of goals he scores is less important because with the quality he has got, he is bound to make a difference in that league. The problem is that if you play in that type of league, and you get used to playing in that type of league, it becomes a problem of mentality.'" He also stated that he left Criscito out for the same reason (even though he's playing in the Champions League and actually progressing to the knockout rounds with consistency with his team, unlike most Italian teams who get knocked out in the group stage or in the qualifying rounds..., and even though our fullbacks are a weak point, he still didnt' consider calling him up...). That's an utterly ridiculous reason for leaving Giovinco out, especially considering that he called up Pellè when he already played in the Chinese league; Lavezzi also played for a Chinese team last season and was one of Argentina's best performers in the last Copa América. Ciman plays in the MLS, is one of the league's best defenders, and he was called up for Belgium for the Euros, and Belgium were one of the favourites, whereas everyone expected Italy to go out in the first round as it was their "least talented team of all time". Brazil even called Kakà up for the Copa América, but he got injured last minute... And then he goes and calls up Zaza who has yet to score in the Premier League...aside from Spain, I don't think the players on the other teams in our groups are superior to defenders in the MLS, and aside from Insigne we don't have a player in our squad with Giovinco's techncial ability. Belotti has been playing well, but he's still young and inexperienced, and Immobile has been doing well, but he's also inconsistent and flopped with both Borussia Dortmund and Sevilla. In the end, we know Giovinco always had the skill...he didn't meet expectations at Juve, but up until the last season, he was still playing and doing well enough, and he did well with Parma, and with Italy when he was given a chance under Conte. Right now Giovinco is playing and scoring a lot, and doing really well; he's the best player in the MLS (ahead of Villa, who could definitely still play for a team like Atletico Madrid and do well in the Champions League), he's in excellent form and he's playing with confidence, and he can score and create, he's quick, and he can beat players with his skill, agility and speed. I don't see why he shouldn't be given a chance in qualifying, especially when Serie A isn't what it used to be and as we don't have any consistent or world class strikers at the moment, and aside from Spain, we don't have particularly difficult teams in our group and we need forwards who are in form. I also don't see why he didn't call Balotelli up if he called up Zaza who has been poor, and when he has been using Eder who hasn't scored in a really long time, and Gabbiadini has also been unreliable...I agree that he should have called up Balotelli this time; yes, he is a gamble, but right now he's been playing well, so he could have at least given him a chance in the friendly against Germany...that doesn't mean anything, and if he does badly, or gets sent off, then...whatever, it doesn't count for everything anyway, and at least he tried him out. Yeah, I completely agree, I wouldn't be surprised if we beat Lichtenstein 2–1 (and that's being hopeful...we better not tie or do something stupid like lose to them), and score the winner in injury time from a set-piece or a penalty or something, lol. I don't see why Giovinco couldn't play against Lichtenstein, especially when he knows many of the players on the Italian team, and given that we need goals, as Spain will be sure to get lots of goals against every other team in the group. I don't see why Ventura is so high and mighty when, even though he's a good, experienced manager, who has done well with young players and smaller teams, he hasn't even won anything yet in his career (I know some pundits on ESPN said the same about Conte when he made similar remarks, but at least he had turned Juve around to win the league and managed some decent performances in Europe, and he did eventually do well with Italy at the Euros, even though his comments were unnecessary and rude). I hope he proves me wrong and does well with the team, because (and I know it's early) so far we haven't looked good at all, and unlike at the Euros, we had an actual star playmaker in midfield, who could also help out defensively: Verratti. Best, Messirulez (talk) 05:56, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Yeah...I heard those comments from somewhere...very ignorant. We know MLS isn't the best league, but like we've said, it s improving and does have some quality players. What makes it worse, is that he's probably never seen a game or even watched any of the playoff games to actually see how Giovinco is like. And yes, it's not like Lichtenstein has any particularly good players...If Gio wasn't playing with TFC right now, it'd be even worse, but his focus is on TFC right now, so it's probably better he not be called right now. What's more hypocritical is making these comments about MLS and Gio and still calling up Pelle the last couple callups from China. And yes, those are some good historical callups from lower leagues that have paid off. I'd've liked to seen Balo there, but at least it seems like Ventura is giving him some thought. As long as Balo keeps playing well, he should be on the team by next year and hopefully Pelle and Eder can take rests for Giovinco, and even Immobile...I see how he can be inconsistent, but for Lazio now he's scoring almost every game with 9 goals already; so he is improving a lot as well and every time he seems to come off the bench for the national team, he always makes an immediate impact. Anything less than a win against Lichtenstein would be shameful. Honestly, not winning every game other than the Spain encounters will be risking not finishing second for the playoffs, which is probably the route we're going to go; playoffs. I could have sworn I heard Criscito was going to be called, but he's out now. The fullbacks are lacking, especially with Florenzi out for a long while, even though Florenzi plays on the opposite side, De Sciglio, Darmian ect have been inconsistent as well, so critizsing him for the Russian league is also stupid. He's just using the league as an excuse not to call them which is really odd because their class is arguably above most of the other players called. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 12:51, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, by his logic then Del Piero and Buffon shouldn't have been called up to the national side after the 2006 WOrld Cup because they were playing in Serie B...yeah, with Florenzi out Criscito would have been a good player to have, and I feel for him as he has been unlucky in the past not to play in more tournaments, and I used to like him as a player, although he was never amazing, but none of our full-backs are; Darmian hasn't been playing too much under Mourinho (I don't know why when he's better than Shaw and he's better than Valencia defensively) and has been inconsistent, and De Sciglio has still been inconsistent although he does put in promosing performances at times liek during the Euros. Yes, I agree that Immobile has been doing well now and he played well for Torino in the past and for Italy in the past few matches, and current form does count and he should be called up, but I guess I just meant that he's also had the same problem of Giovinco and our other strikers of being inconsistent in the past, and he couldn't cut it in stronger leagues, so why should Giovinco be the one who gets left out, especially when he's better than someone like Eder in his position; Eder is quick, skilful and he can score or create and take set-pieces, but in those aspects he's not on Giovinco's level by any means; the only thing is Eder is bigger and stronger and works harder and helps out in defence more, which coaches like, but Giovinco is quicker, better technically, a better passer, creator, and although maybe Eder is more of an offensive threat due to his playing style and form with Sampdoria, he hasn't scored in a long time, and Giovinco has been scoring a lot with TFC, and has hit double figures in the past with Parma; yes, he only has one goal with Italy, but it's not like Eder has a particularly good goalscoring record either. I could see Insigne (who is also talented, but too inconsistent) being played in that role instead of Giovinco, as he is the only one on his level from a creative and technical standpoint (and he is also quick and can take free-kicks, but I don't think his finishing is as accurate as Seba's, although in Serie C and B he scored a lot and last season he did farely well and finally hit double figures with Napoli) but the problem is he has barely featured for Italy as a starter; I hope he plays in the next qualifying match. Hopefully Giovinco can have the consolation of winning the playoffs and then earn a call-up for Italy and play well.

Best, Messirulez (talk) 14:49, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Re: Italy/U21 3

@Messirulez: Hi! Good to see that Italy quickly overcame that friendly loss to France to win over Israel in the WC qualifier. I thought the two Milan players, Antonelli and Bonaventura played well that game, especially Antonelli on the first goal for the cross into Pelle and the second goal for Bonaventura to do that little step over and draw the penalty. De Sciglio might be better than Antonelli though. I'm not really sure why Darmian wasn't called up though, is he injured? And what happened to Thiago Motta as well? He might have been good to use when De Rossi got injured, but I'd prefer Bonaventura anyway. And great to see Barzagli back! Luckily Ventura convinced him not to retire; he still has a couple good years left in him. But Chiellini did play uncharacteristically awful that game. Ventura joked he used up all his errors for the next 5 years in that one match. Probably a little harsh on that second yellow card... and now he'll miss the all important match against Spain on 6 October. Italy need to push to try and win that game as Spain already has a large goal difference on them from that win against Liechtenstein. Italy doesn't usually score tend to score many in games, but it would be good if they could crush them as well to get the goal difference back to par or higher. After Israel scored to halve the deficit, Italy looked, again, uncharacteristically shaky in defence. We gave away far too many incomplete passes. After that goal, the ball was in our half most of the time, defending against Israel with our backs to the wall! That should not happen against a team like that, even if it is an away match! I was actually worried we wouldn't get the three points until Immobile struck that shoot into the bottom corner on the counter to settle our nerves. But they really need to improve if they want to win Spain, especially with Chiellini out.

Canada unfortunately did not qualify for the final round of CONCACAF qualification even though they beat El Salvador last night in the final match of the fourth round as we needed Honduras to lose to Mexico, but they drew... It would have been a great achievement to enter the final round. They played so well last night, getting tons of chances with good balls from de Jong, but too many chances not capitalized on by Ricketts, Larin and Hoilett. Any result would've been futile anyway as we were always one point off since Honduras drew.
Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 11:34, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm glad they won it although I agree we played and defended stupidly and gave them too much of the ball when we should have been keeping possession in their half (that's the differece between us and Spain, who go and defeat Liechtenstein 8–0, albeit at home... I do find it a bit ridiculous when they keep scoring against a team like that, however. To me it's unnecessary humiliation - I don't agree that they are "respecting" the opponents by playing full out until the end; I think after 4 or 5 goals, they could take their foot off the accelerator a little bit. Some say that keeping the ball and not doing anything with it is condescending, but I think there are ways of doing it that can be more respectful of certain opponents; maybe I'm still bitter about the fact that they had to go and score two more unnecessary goals against us in the Euro final when we were down a man due to injury, 2–0 down in the second half and evidently tired and deflated in terms of morale...). I thought Chiellini in particular had a horrible match in defence, even worse than his game against France; hopefully it's only something temporary like against Uruguay at the last Wolrd Cup. We know his ball control isn't good but usually his passing is solid, but he gave them several opportunities with misplaced passes early on and then lost the ball, leading to their goal (why did no one close down the shot...great goal, a bit of a fluke probably, but he definitely meant it and credit to him), and then got himself sent off when we were only a goal up and risked missing out on the three points as you said...(it might have been a bit harsh to give him a second yellow; it was a clumsy challenge but I don't know if he fully meant to run into him, but with Chiello you never know...). Antonelli did well and has played well...De Sciglio might be a bit better - he definitely had a great Euro - but before then I thought they were pretty much equal, and Milan would do well to play De Sciglio on the right so he and Antonelli can play together. Bonaventura did well to get the penalty, although against France I thought he was a bit selfish and all over the place tactically, even though he's talented, versatile and hard-working; hopefully he'll develop into a good player, but when Marchisio is back I would probably prefer us to play Verratti Marchisio and Parolo, as Parolo has been doing well at covering and winning back the ball. Verratti did well and it's good he's back. I think Darmian is injured but I'm honestly not sure why he wasn't called up...I really hope he gets a starting spot under Mourinho, but it doesn't look like he will at the moment; Valencia is not better than him, but he does provide a better offensive threat and is a decent crosser; I don't think Shaw or Jones are better than him either... Thiago Motta, I don't think Ventura is interested in him as he mainly prefers younger players (aside from the defensie line-up and goalkeeper and some other players from the Euro). It's a shame the Verratti-Motta partnership was never really tried for the national team as they worked to well together at PSG with Matuidi, but now he is a bit old and slow I think. It was a relief when Immobile got his goal, especially after missing that Chance after a great play by Florenzi; we did have some chances to increase the score-line, but we often struggle to convert as always - it's also annoying that Eder tried that chip on a great ball from Bonucci (who also had a few lapses) and missed. The Israeli keeper made a very good save on a header by Pellé as well (I must admit although he's no longer playing in a top league he does have a good goalscoring rate for Italy, and even Immobile's goal was a typical Pellé play - long ball by Buffon, headed on by Pellé to Immobile who ran onto the ball to score).
The under-21 side won and have almost qualified; hopefully next year they can have a good tournament, especially if Rugani, Romagnoli, Donnarumma, Belotti and Berardi all play (Di Francesco has also been playing well - I wonder if his dad will bring him to Sassuolo considering they alraedy have several, good, young Italian players, haha!); that would be quite the team to have! There also seem to be some decent midfielders in the team as well.
That's a shame about Canada not making it to the final round of CONCACAF qualifying even though they won their last match; it's a shame Mexico couldn't pull out a win over Honduras when they are capable of beating any CONCACAF team easily except the US probably...I suppose both teams probably played for a draw as they would both qualify, which happens more often than not in football and never really gets looked into...hopefully next time round Canada will have rebuilt and can produce a team behind a young talent like Larin that will qualify; that would be exciting for the fans - last time was 1986 I think, if I'm not wrong? Too long, so hopefully they can manage to do so soon! Best regards, Messirulez (talk) 14:31, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Yeah, I mean, I understand what you say about humiliation from that 8-0 Spain crushing, but what if it comes down to goal difference or goals for? Say both Italy and Spain win all other matches and draw each other both times. Then it will come down to goal difference, which Spain is now far in the lead on. I understand Liechtenstein are such a weak team that it would be humiliating for them to lose by such a score, but if that's what you need for extra assurance, then so be it. It was annoying losing 4-0 to them in the 2012 Euro Final after we were a man down due to injury, but you can never be too safe with the scoreline, it can change in a matter of minutes. Remember when they beat Tahiti 10-0 at the Confederations Cup...That was an extreme case as it wasn't an important match so they probably should've let off. Spain has a tendency to do that I guess. Let's just hope we can beat them so it won't have to come down to that. Hopefully Chiellini gets back on track, and fast! I also agree with the Verratti-Marchisio-Parolo unit when Marchisio is back, but hopefully Candreva can still be a part of it on the right. I also admit that, even though it's evident I don't care much for Pelle, he does have a good goalscoring record for Italy, and yes, that was a good save from the Israeli keeper to keep out a well struck header from Pelle. Maybe he and Immobile would be a better partnership than Eder. After all, Eder only got two goals, one in a qualifier and that one in the Euro to win Sweden; both of which were pretty important however. Other than that he hasn't really stood out. I also saw that Football Italia article saying that U-21 Italy qualified, but then on Wikipedia it says otherwise...Italy has one game left to play with 23 points and Serbia has two games left at 17 points. So in theory, if Italy were to lose and Serbia were to win both of theirs, depending on goal differential, Italy could come second. I wonder why there is conflicting info? And yes, it is unfortunate Canada didn't make it to the next round, but it probably would've been monumental for them to qualify out of that round, although with the teams that are in it, only Mexico and USA are the stand outs, as even Costa Rica made it last year (and did well to our amazement). I guess even if Canada won at the 3-1 score and even if Mexico beat Honduras 1-0 it still wouldn't have been good enough to put Canada through on goal difference; that's why we needed to take our chances to drive up the goal difference. Yes, the last time they made it to the WC was in 1986...and did terribly...I wasn't even around to see that. Hopefully we get as competative as USA with good young players like Larin and the increasing popularity of the sport. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 22:41, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, the goal difference argument is definitely a fair point, you're completely right, but I guess I just feel that with Italy you usually have to worry about goal difference as we usually scrape by on 1–0, 2–1, or at best 2–0 or 3–1 wins, haha. We also tend to concede stupid goals despite our defensive solidity, whereas Spain don't give up quite as many with their possession based game, even though their defence isn't actually quite as good. Maybe we score around 15-20 goals in each qualifying campaign, whereas Spain have usually scored 25-30 in these past few years (in a six-team group at least), but it's true, in the end that is the deciding factor, even though at times in the past I thought some scorelines were excessive... I agree, lets really hope we can get a win against them and top the group to avoid having to resort to that for a definite spot in the tournament!
I also agree that Candreva has to be a mainstay on the right, whether we play a 3–5–2, 4–3–3, 3–4–3 or 4–4–2/4–2–4, etc.; he's been our most reliable player and he's well-rounded, can create chances, beat defenders, strike well, and convert dead ball opportunities. I would also like to see Florenzi play more often, maybe even in midfield as well, but I'm not sure who should be excluded for him as Parolo has been doing well in a box-to-box role. In a 3–5–2 he will be on the left usually instead of Darmian, De Sciglio or Antonelli...or come on as a sub for Candreva if he doesn't start. I would really like to see a switch to a 4–3–3 though, so Candreva could play higher up on the pitch and we could have two of those full-backs at once, while still maintaining that three-man midfield, although we would only have 2 of the BBC in the centre of the team's defence. Yeah, I agree that Pellè isn't a superstar, but I guess I have a bit of a soft spot for him as gets some goals and I feel he is unassuming and works to his strengths, so he does his job quite well. In hindsight I think he was probably the right choice as our starting striker under Conte as he was probably the best we had for Euro 2016...but then again, who knows what would have happened other strikers had been called up! I'm not sure if he should still be called up for the rest of the qualifying games under Ventura, considering his age and the league he's playing in now (why not call up Giovinco as well then once he's fit...before Pellè was managing double figures in the Premier League at least...). However, he has scored quite often for us recently, and we haven't had a striker who could do that in a while. He's nothing fancy or spectacular, basically a slow, old fashioned centre forward (with a better work-rate) who can get into good positions and volley or head in Candreva's crosses, hold up the ball for his team-mates, and he's a decent but not amazing finisher inside the area as well I guess. He's not skilful but I like that he is quite intelligent and still usually tries hard to help the team even if he doesn't score; even though he doesn't have great technique or passing, his strength really helped him protect the ball well at the Euros when he had his back to goal, and he usually had good vision and ideas, although his execution and final ball were at times innacurate; against Sweden he was awful, and the penalty against Germany was also ridiculous, but against Belgium and Spain I thought he did well. The only reason why I suppose he has played with Eder must be because the coaches felt they had a decent understanding together, although like you I'm not too keen on him either; he is quick, has good technique and a good shot, but he's so inconsistent, undisciplined, and hasn't really scored or created many goals recently aside from the goal against Sweden you mentioned and the assist against France. To his credit, he really does work hard for the team to try and win back possession (which is probably what Conte really admired in him), but that's about it. To me he also doesn't really have the vision to link up play with the midfielders or create chances as a second striker, but at the same time, he doesn't quite have the physicality or the goalscoring ability to be a main striker, so personally I would much prefer having Insigne in his role, who is quicker, more skilful and more creative, even though we may lose a bit from a defensive, offensive and physical standpoint; I really hope Lorenzo can play well again this year as well, as I always felt he was a player that never truly seemed to play to his potential, although finally last year he seemed to be more consistent. Immobile, I used to like him a lot, and he is also quick and works really hard, but unfortunately with him I always feel like he's never going to reach the goalscoring form he showed with Torino...I really hope he proves me wrong though. Sorry to keep repeating myself, but unfortunately I feel like we currently don't have any consistent or prolific star forwards (many of the former under-21 guys like Destro, Balotelli, Macheda, Borini, El Shaarawy and Gabbiadini haven't really lived up to expectations...) so hopefully some of our current more talented youngsters will strengthen our attack in the future! Yeah, Football Italia made a mistake; the Italy Under-21 side still need one more point to qualify - I'm guessing they meant that they are guaranteed a play-off spot now. I really hope Canada can make it next time; it's frustrating, but they've come close to making the final stage a few times now, so hopefully the next time with a newer generation of players will be the time they make it! Best, Messirulez (talk) 02:13, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Yeah, I agree with the formations, 4-3-3 is a good option, however, I think Ventura would want to stick with 3-5-2 because why would he have pushed for Barzagli to come back so strongly? If we were to exclude one of the BBC it would likely be Barzagli. I like the 4-3-3 though since it allows us to use the right/left backs like you said, and the BBC were also accustomed to using that system at the back for Champions League even if it means excluding one of them. I also like Insigne; his appearances, when he came on at the Euro, had an immediate effect in the game. If Pelle were to be excluded, I think we should have Immobile play regularly as he is the only one out of our forwards that would be able to head well. Gio, Insigne and Eder wouldn't be the best in the air. That's why we need Balo back haahah, I'm not giving up on his return :). Insigne could be to the left of him and Gio to the right. That would be a really pacey front line! Immobile also has decent strength and even though Gio is small, he can still show some strength to keep the ball. Even El Shaarwary would be good to have as a sub it that formation, but like you said, he hasn't lived up to expectations, but he hasn't really been given much of a chance either. But since Pelle played well in the last two games, I think Ventura will probably call him again. If we were to have only 3 players in mid, it might be hard to choose as two of the spots would already be eaten up by Marchisio and Verratti... and Candreva should be in there somewhere and Marchisio usually plays on the right too. It would probably be hard for Florenzi to start, but he would be a great sub to have. He could probably start as a right back though, and Darmian as the left.

Italy U-21 should still have it in the bag as their last match is against Lithuania next month; they should definitely get the result to put them through. And yes, it would be great to have Canada in an upcoming WC for the experience... it would be cool if the could win the host bid for the 2026 FIFA World Cup to put them in automatically, although it would be a greater achievement to get there themselves, but at least having held in Canada would be better to raise awareness to the sport to the country. 2026 is still 10 freakin years away though, so it will be some time if it ever happens. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 11:42, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Those games were rough. At least we didn't lose to Spain, and losing, or even drawing for that matter to Macedonia would've been a disaster. The first half of Spain we didn't get a shot on net and possession was only 28 percent for us if I recall correctly. Pelle was very disappointing and did something that Balo would've done back in the day by not shaking Ventura's hand. It was right for him to be sent home. If Giovinco shouldn't be allowed to be on the national team just because he plays in MLS, Pelle shouldn't either because of China, which is probably even worse than MLS! I hope this is the end for him, Balo has proven that he is capable for greatness even with just 5 or 6 matches in France. Did you see that BS red card they gave him after he DID NOT react at all to the situation. Great that the commission rescinded it! Buffon was unfortunate with that blunder, very uncharacteristic. The only other time I remember him messing it up that badly was against Lecce; this one was probably worse though. He made a good save against Macedonia, however, to keep them in the game. Eder actually did a good job to draw that penalty, and then who else but De Rossi to bury it away. Could've even won it in the end but Belotti was apparently offside; maybe by a leg. The Macedonia match was classic Italy giving you a heart attack to the very end. Nice to see Belotti get his first goal for the senior side, but Verratti did not play well at all. Very sloppy pass on the first goal and bad defending by Bonucci just backing up the whole way until he took the shot. The Lazio man Immobile to the rescue! You would never be able to ask Pelle to do that. They showed a lot of character to go two goals down away and come back to get the win with 15 minutes. Both great goals. Immobile falls in the box, gets back up immediately and tips in the cross. Second goal did well to get to the far post to nod in the ball at the death. What a disaster that could've been. Hopefully they wake up for the next rounds in November, because to go down to a team like Macedonia in a group like this will not do you any good at all. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 15:17, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

  • Yeah, those two games were rough to watch. Especially the Macedonia game. The Spain game, to be honest, I'm just glad we got a draw; with a new coach and not a great team (Marchisio is still out, we don't have great strikers or full-backs, Chiellini was suspended, and Verratti and Candreva weren't even starting...which is a mystery to me - why was Montolivo starting!? He used to be good, and I do I feel sorry that the guy got injured yet again when playing for Italy, but why was he even called up...he hasn't been playing for a while now), I expected us to defend, and I didn't see much shame in that, even though we were at home, as they are superior and seem to have captured their vigour under their new manager, although then again it is also disappointing for the fans when a team with the international reputation of Italy defends like that all game at home (especially at the Juventus Arena) and doesn't really try and counter (we won the ball back in a good position right at the end of hte first half but Eder was extremely selfish and wasted a good opportunity to counter). We didn't get a shot, but then again we didn't really concede any real chances either...the only real chance was the shot from Buffon's mistake, which shouldn't have even happened, and then the other shot which went wide (Iniesta didn't have enough space to really challenge Buffon in the first half even though he made a good run), so I found it annoying when the press were saying that Spain were far more dominant when the possession didn't amount to much; how come when England played Italy at the 2014 World Cup and 2012 Euros eveyone said that the English were organised even though they basically defended all match? We were playign Spain, and this Italy team has been described as the least talented Italian team of all time, and it was our fighting spirit and organisation which led us to do so well at the Euros. It's annoying that we conceded a silly goal; De Sciglio, despite his performance at the Euros, this time was completly out of position and wasn't in line with the other defenders...and the worse part is that if he was going to track the striker then why did he let get ahead of him!? Buffon made a bad mistake...he read it well up until then when he came rushing out to sweep up the ball, and I was sure he had it, but I think he must have taken his eye off the ball last minute...he is almost 40, so it can happen, but it was still a bad error which could have been costly. I'm glad we managed to equalise as it would have been frustrating to lose to a goal like that when we only gave up one other real goalscoring opportunity. He said in an interview that he let his concentration slip as he was worried that he might run into the Spanish striker and be sent off; I was surprised how gracious everyone was in the press. To be fair, he is an absolute legend who was been so consistent for so long; at most I probably only remember 10-15 "errors" or so of his in his 20 year career...and in his prime, maybe 5 at most...with Juve at, least, between 2001–2006, I only remmeber the ones where he dropped a cross in the fourth match of the season in 2001, but that was nerves, then he made a slight mistake against Roma, then from then on I remember the mistake where he missed a bouncing back-pass he tried to control against Atalanta in 2005. Then after that, during the 2007–11 period when the team was terrible there were a few last man challenges for which he was sent off, and one time he missed the ball near the touchline when rushing out...but he was still good, just that he was often injured during that period. Since 2011, he's been great since he's been healthy, and after that there was the bad touch against Lecce as you said (but a few of these mistakes that led to goals were bad control with his feet, so still not really an error in terms of actual goalkeeping), the defelcted shot against Alaba in 2013, which wasn't even entirely his fault as it changed direction after being deflected, the mistake against Spain in the 2014 friendly, the one against Croatia in qualifying, and this one against Spain...but otherwise, there were maybe only some times you would expect some one of his ability to do better, or some times where he should have come out for crosses, or maybe held on to the ball or controlled his rebound slightly better, or maybe was slightly out of position and conceded on his post (but this happens to everyone, and less frequently to him in comparison to other keepers), but rarely did he ever make a really bad, decisive error in his prime; there were maybe a few soft goals with Italy and Parma, but nothing drastic. I must say that if that mistake of his hadn't happened agaisnt Spain, I actually think it might have ended 0–0...otherwise I don't think we would have scored; it really shook up the team and we finally started attacking after that. Immobile played very well when he came on and completely changd the match; the penalty play started with him. Glad De Rossi didn't miss the penalty, and I'm glad the official on the goal-line saw the contact because the ref looked like he was going to let the play continue (which would have been a second blow after not sending off Diego Costa for a second yellow). It's just annoying we don't have a striker who can consistenly do this...each one of them will score or do well one match, then be dreadful for the next three matches...Immobile has only scored three times for Italy and has often been disappointing, Eder twice and has often played badly, Zaza once or twice and is really quite inconsistent and unrefined at times...Pelle has scored more frequently, but when he's not playing well he doesn't do anything as he's not a world-class striker...I know I keep repeating myself, but hopefully one of our young strikers can become a superstar as we really need one.
Although he should never have reacted in that way, in Pelle's defence, however, I can understand his frustration with Ventura against Spain, as Candreva wasn't there to provide him with good deliveries into the box for him to get his head on from the wing, so he was not getting the ball in good positions, esepcially as Eder wasn't helping him out (also, I know he played well against Spain at the Euros, but he was not the right striker to play against this new, exciting Spanish side...he works hard, but he's slow so he's not dynamic enough when it comes to countering quickly and pressing the opposing players when we don't have the ball - and we didnt even give him any long passes to hold up as he didn't have any really good playmakers in midfield). I think Eder should have been taken off as he was dreadful, as all he did was come back to win back the ball (which is useful, but we also already have players who do that), but in possession he kept losing the ball or misplacing passes; nevertheless he did win the penalty, so I must reluctantly admit that it was the correct decision in hindsight. Pelle's still our most prolific striker at the moment, but I agree that he isn't playing competitively, so in that case why is he still being called up? Why not bring up Giovinco instead once he is fit; yes, he plays in a different position, but I'm still sure against Macedonia he could have scored or assisted a goal. Balotelli should have been called up, but I can understand that Ventura wants to wait and see if he can be consistent; to be fair, although he is quick, strong and talented and has done quite well for Italy, he has also proven to be a liability in the past and could have easily earned himself a red card due to his volatile character (about that, I'm sure if Balotelli had kicked the ball away instead of Diego Costa, he would have been given the second yellow...), or we could have also paid the consequences due to his lack of composure on the ball or in front of goal under pressure, and his poor work-rate. I'm glad they took away his suspension though because that was ridiculous and he was being targeted; at least the official admitted the mistake. Hopefully he can keep playing well and scoring a lot and fulfil some of his potential.
The Macedonia game was terrible...I know it was away, but we gave away so many chances...Buffon made a good save to keep us in the game although maybe he should have done better on their second goal, but I also think his line of sight was blocked. Verratti unfortunately made a dreadful pass (to be fair, Ventura hasn't played him nearly enough when he should be our key man, and he just came back from a bad injury, but he's still probably our best player) and Bonucci wasn't in a good position to receive it and then basically didn't contain him enough and gave him too much space to shoot instead of trying to block him off. I'm glad we came back to win it at least; that would have been a big blow, as it's already going to be difficult to finish first even if we manage the same amount of points as Spain, because of their superior goal difference (speaking of which, what is the probelm with our defence...we are conceding way too many goals...we've conceded in every match under Ventura so far). Candreva's presence helped offensively as he made a bunch of nice deliveries into the box, which is what Pellé was really missing against Spain. I'm glad Belotti got his first goal; he deserves it and I hope he can keep playing well. I suppose we have only just started under Ventura and are notorious for struggling in qualifying, but so far the signs aren't encouraging. It's also frustrating we get Spain in our group when teams like Portugal, England and Wales have such easy draws...yes Wales and Portugal did better at the Euros, but they also didn't have to face a top-5 team (except for Portugal in the final). These draws, like the rankings, are ridiculous. And regarding the FIFA rankings, how on earth are England ahead of us? In the past three tournaments they have done worse or just as badly as us...qualifying matches shouldn't hold as much weight as tournament matches, and opposition should be taken into account (we played Belgium, Spain and Germany at the Euros...), as well as other factors, and friendlies should almost count for nothing...half a point, not even a point; Euros should count for more than the Confederations Cup, and the continental tournament difficulty should also be considered. How are Belgium still so high up, above Germany? That makes no sense. Even Colombia...they should be in the top 10, but 4th? How are Chile not higher ranked when they won the past two Copa America titles? I know they aren't doing too well in qualifying, but still...the forumal makes sense, but it's definitely flawed.

Best, Messirulez (talk) 15:47, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: To be honest I couldn't even watch the games because the Spain one was on Thursday during work and the Macedonia one was during Thanksgiving (Festa di Ringraziamento, not a real holiday in Europe right?) so I was with my family eating turkey! But I hear all your points. I'm soooo annoyed I can't see these types of matches, even with Juve's Champions League mid-week games during the day in my time zone, can't watch. But man, you have a great memory to remember all that about Buffon. All that would escape me after some time unless it was a big fail like Lecce and now Spain. Mind you, I didn't have a chance to watch Juve in the 90s and early 2000s. I can see how Buffon didn't want to run into the Spain player and get sent off and missed the ball at the last second. Good for him for being the first keeper to get the Golden Foot though. For the two games I know we had some injuries like Marchisio, Rugani, Chiellini - who also got another injury in training to prevent him from playing against Macedonia - hopefully it's nothing serious; that's what I've heard. No idea why he didn't play Verratti or Candreva and played Monto in the first game... I'm not a big fan of him either - too bad he got injured though. Yeah, you're right about the possession stats, they don't really mean too much. I really hope Ventura gives Balo a chance for next month's call ups if he keeps playing the way he is! It is sad how he gets targeted though. It frustrates me too about Italy's group, looking at some of the groups like the one with Romania that got a better seed than Italy I think I recall, really pisses me off. As we've said countless times before, the rankings are formulated so stupidly, it really needs some updating in the calculating process! Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 22:41, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

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