Jump to content

User talk:Vaselineeeeeeee/Archive 6

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Archive 1←Archive 4Archive 5Archive 6Archive 7Archive 8→Archive 10

Flags in football results

Hi Vaselineeeeeeee, basically under Franco (1945–1977) this flag was adopted. As you can see here, it is represented by the template {{fb-rt|ESP|1945}} which you changed. I remind you that the game at issue was held in 1949, therefore, within the period between 1945 and 1977. --Tanonero (msg) 12:23, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

@Tanonero: How come the flag there is a flag of from 1938-1945 then? How can we differentiate the two flags if the both have 1945? I think when changed to 1977, it look more like the flag for 1945-1977 which 1949 falls between.
It's not, although they look really similar:
@Tanonero: I think the 1945-1977 one the eagle is bigger, but besides the point. I know when designating flags, the code usually starts with the first year the flag was introduced, however with this instance for Spain, one ends in 1945 and one begins, so how do we make the distinction between the first and the second flag? Is there a different code for this case? Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 12:39, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
We have to worry about that only in case one game against Spain would occurs in between the two flags, namely the 1945. We have to use the 1945 flag for the 1949 game and the 1785 flag (which lasted until 1931) for the 1930 game. Besides, I've just realised that if you click on each flag in this page, it will redirect to the correct version to be used in en.wiki. This facilitates our job, as it seems that we have a few flags to correct. --Tanonero (msg) 12:44, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
@Tanonero: On Italy Wiki they use that Spain flag with the purple colour for the last stripe. I don't see a year for that in Flag of Spain (Maybe they have it in It. wiki but their code is so jumbled I didn't want to look through it right now haha. Maybe for the one that starts in 1938-1945 it's {{flag|ESP|1938}}  ESP and for the one that is 1945-1977 it's how you said {{flag|ESP|1945}}  ESP ... that's probably the case. Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 12:51, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, that seems logical, don't know why I didn't think of that before, so initially you had it right, yes. Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 12:52, 30 March 2016 (UTC) And yes, for the games that fall close between 1945 for Spain for example like you said, it will be more tricky.. Hopefully they don't play eachother that year! (Maybe they do haven't looked at the schedule in detail yet). Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 12:54, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

@Tanonero: Spain purple flag for 1931-36 (around there) is  ESP {{flag|ESP|1931}} just as FYI. The Italian page you pointed to me is a good reference since they seem to have all the flags in order. I looked at the 1940-49 results page and it is pretty short because of the war I assume. You'll probably finish that decade before me, so when you finish, I guess just continue from 1939. I think all the flags are in order now from even the 1910-29 right? I mean we got Hungary down I think, Austria Empire, Egypt, and now Spain. I think we should be good now. I don't think we need to worry about the Spain flag for 1945 anyway, since Italy doesn't even play them in that year if I remember correctly. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 19:10, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

...Also for that match in 1912 against Finland, the Italian wiki uses what looks like the Russian flag Russia. When looking at their code they have the date from 1809-1917, however when I test it out in English wiki, it doesn't recognize the code? Any thoughts? Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 02:48, 31 March 2016 (UTC):

@Vaselineeeeeeee: Yes, I will go backwards until we meet. We should be good with the flags. I'd leave the Finland flag as it is. I read that the Russian flag was imposed in that period, but it encountered a strong resistance. That's maybe the reason why in en.wiki Finland of those years is represented by its common flag. --Tanonero (msg) 09:56, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Teamwork Barnstar
If I deserve a barnstar for the work on the Italy national football team results, you deserve it, too. :) Tanonero (msg) 11:47, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
@Tanonero: Wow, that's a cool looking barnstar, thanks man! With both of our great contributions, we will be done this monumental task in half the time! By the time this project is complete, I see more barnstars in our midst :) Grazie ancora e Forza Azzurri! Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 14:39, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

Juve disciplinary record

Hey Vaselineeeeeeee. Could you do me a huge favor and update the Juve disciplinary record on the season page? Thanks! Italia2006 (talk) 20:55, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: No problem, I'll look into it now. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 21:01, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
@Italia2006: Done. I think everything should be correct, just double check it if you want. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 21:24, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

Why the all time history is not appropriate?

In other language versions of Juventus Main page, most of them have similar history description. Why it is not appropriate in English version page? If you have a similar page like it, please show me then we can add this page link to the main article.

Also what is the possible copy right issues with those images? I don't see there is copyrights limit to use them in this page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Scudetto_revoked.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Coppa_Ali_della_Vittoria.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Scudetto_revoked.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Scudetto.svg

However, if there is any issue about copyrights, we can remove the images and only use words instead.

Please explain more, otherwise I will undo it. It cost me plenty of time. Thank you.

troubleo 23:44, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

@Troubleo.WS: Before I removed it, I looked at some other pages like Manchester United F.C., Real Madrid C.F., etc. and none had such a table randomly placed at the end of the history section in the club article. Other language Wiki's have their own convention and many of the things they do are not done here. Juve also has a page List of Juventus F.C. seasons especially for this, so it doesn't make much sense to include it here. We can include a seasons section and put a {{main|List of Juventus F.C. seasons}} template directing it to the main page, however it is most likely necessary and haven't seen it done around. The list like how you put it is some what out of place and isn't usually inputted. We can ask at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football‎ if they think it is out of place or not if you like. Also with those images, I remember including them in the Juve page a while back (look at the Juve's talk page) and they got removed since even though in the commons have some other sort of flaw to them. The Italian Wiki includes images like that, but English Wiki does not. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 23:55, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
@Vaselineeeeeeee: Thank you for explanation. It makes much sense now. I think I can continue similar working on the page you indicated at List of Juventus F.C. seasons. Perhaps we can add it into our main article. Thanks again. troubleo 01:26, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
@Troubleo.WS: Thanks, that would be great if you could continue with the list of seasons on that page! Most of the major clubs, like the ones I mentioned above, have their own articles for the list of seasons. Mostly because it is very long. I do see how you condensed it with the drop down button, however, it is better to keep it at the list of seasons page. As I said, maybe later we can bring it into the article by pointing it to the main page. Thanks for your understanding. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 01:46, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
@Vaselineeeeeeee: According to the page you showed me at Wikipedia:Fancruft, does it exactly mean if we use files improperly, the page that contain these files might be marked as fancruft, then it would be automatically removed from Wikipedia? By the way, we did very fast on List of Juventus F.C. seasons. I believe the rest of seasons which didn't include in this page so far would be done very soon. Thank you! troubleo 21:43, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
@Troubleo.WS: They won't automatically be removed from Wikipedia, but that page basically just says that we shouldn't decorate pages with needless "cruft". Usually the cruft is in the form of pictures of some sort. If you want we can put (30th) title in brackets like that. Yes, good work on the page today. Most of the rest of Juve's early seasons do not have Wiki pages... but it doesn't mean they can't be added nevertheless. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 21:52, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

^ I just saw you did that already, that is fine I believe. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 21:54, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

Summer Time in Europe

Hi, I've just realised that some CET might be wrong, because CEST was intermittently observed in many countries since the beginning of the XX century (that is, before being adopting it regularly, which is when I was basing my work on). I am trying to correct all the wrong occurrences by relying on this article. Try to be aware of it, as prevention is better than cure. Thanks. --Tanonero (msg) 10:21, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

@Tanonero: Gosh, there are so many different zones. You know I'm not the best with the times (I live in Canada so I'm not really accustomed to it), but I will try my best. Going through that article you pointed me to, it can get somewhat confusing... When you corrected, for example, a match that was in January to CEST, I wouldn't have known that... Isn't summer time in between usually between March-ish to October-ish? There is obviously some history behind it that I'm not aware of since we have been putting it as CET for the past few years in our current results stretch, even though some of the games would be in May and June for example. Also with the WEST, I didn't see any mention of that in the France section in the Summer Time in Europe article? ---- How many matches do you think are affected in the 1910-29 and 1930-49 results pages? Maybe if you can point me to the ones that need specific fixing so I don't make any mistakes? Because if I go around changing times to what I think is right, I will probably be miserably wrong and make the problem worse! Thanks. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 12:39, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
I see. If I have corrected a January game with summer time, I have surely made a mistake. I found this website to be very useful. For example, you can see here changes occurred in Italy, France, or Belgium. You can search for the time period of your interest. --Tanonero (msg) 17:43, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
@Tanonero: No worries, I figured the January time was a mistake, but didn't even know myself for sure since there are always so many changes, especially back then. But thanks for that website, it makes everything so much clearer to search for a specific date for a specific country! I will make sure to check that site from now on when adding times, and will check some of the fixtures we've already added to tend to any needed corrections. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 18:00, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
1910-1929 should be all right now. With regards to the article in my sandbox, only a few mistakes (if any) should be present and I will deal with them. Thanks for your collaboration. --Tanonero (msg) 18:08, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
@Tanonero: Okay, cool. Thanks for dealing with the corrections, good there isn't too many of them! Hopefully with this site now, we will be mistake free (at least for the times anyway! haha) Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 18:10, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Re: Buffon GA Nomination

Sure, thanks! I'll keep an eye on the Buffon page. Real shame about Marchisio at the weekend...it's not looking good for the Euros if we don't have him in midfield (which looked like our strong point before...); it's annoying because as Napoli lost we really extended our lead in the league, and I think Marchisio could have been rested; we've had too many injuries though, and I'm not sure if our fitness staff is to blame. Hopefully Verratti can recover in time, and maybe he can play with Thiago Motta like at PSG, even though Motta usually hasn't played as well for Italy. I just really hope Conte doesn't bring Montolivo; he's been recovering a lot of balls this season, but Serie A is fairly slow paced, and otherwise he's so slow and inconsistent. Parolo hasn't been playing well this season either; we have a few decent younger offensive midfielders, but Marchisio was so good at setting the tempo. Maybe bringing Pirlo along isn't such a bad idea now, even though he's old...although we still need quick, energetic players who can play from box to box and run and defend for the slower midfield playmakers. Marchisio was so great because he was so well-rounded...De Rossi seems to have really aged this season, and most of our other box-to-box players have declined; the only one is Florenzi I guess. Aside from De Rossi we don't really have a pure defensive midfielder either at the moment, although that isn't necessarily required if we have people like Verratti, Florenzi and Thiago Motta, who all help out in defence as well. Best, Messirulez (talk) 15:12, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: That was a shame that Marchisio is likely out for the Euros which they could have rested like you said... I read Pirlo wouldn't mind if he wasn't called to Euros, but I agree it would probably be a good idea now fro sure. Our midfield is usually our best line along with defence, which will be lacking now like you said. I read on Football Italia that with Marchisio out, Bonucci wants to try out midfield! He does have that sort of quality to him when he plays defence, but I don't know... Conte is going to have to figure something out. Juve is surely in the driving seat now that they won while Napoli lost. We really should have it in the bag now with Higuain banned for a bit. I'm pretty bitter that Man City is still in the CL! It's actually unbelievable... They don't belong there. Although PSG didn't play the best against them. Hopefully Atletico can shock Bayern like they did Barca... But as of right now, Bayern looks likely to win it... Which is annoying. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 15:42, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
I didn't hear about Bonucci saying that...usually I would have thought it to be silly, but in the past at times, due to his ability on the ball as well as his tendency to be error prone, he did remind me of an Italian David Luiz, who is probably better as a defensive midfielder (although Bonucci has improved greatly in his defensive play in these past two seasons, whereas David Luiz is fortunate to play alongside Thiago Silva...one of the goals in the first leg agaisnt Man City was partially his fault). I think he could play there as he usually comes out into midfield when we play 3 at the back, almost like an old-school Libero...if Chiellini comes back and is fit, then he and Barzagli can defintiely play together, and having Bonucci as a defensive mid could even work, who knos..we would probably have to try it out in a friendly and training and see. Players have definitely done similar switches in the past, like Rijkaard and Desailly (De Rossi did the opposite); the only thing is that Bonucci doesn't have the pace or energy of those players to chase down opponents. Yes i'm also really annoyed Man City are in the semis (and Liverpool in the Europa League...there goes our chance of overtaking the Premier League in the UEFA coefficient...); they really do not deserve to be there; we beat them twice in the group stage and we were unlucky with some of their results, whereas they were extremely fortunate and managed to finish first in their group and then grab an easy round of 16 draw. I really think we deserved to be in the semis this year, it's so frustrating. It was annoying seeing Man City play terribly against PSG but grab two lucky goals on counterattacks from defensive errors, when PSG dominated (Trap also should have saved one of the goals; shame Ibra missed the penalty and that chance after being played 1 v 1 against Hart by Thiago Motta). Blanc is a terrible manager though, and his decisions in the return leg made no sense. Plus with Verratti and Pastore out and Thiago Motta going off injured they struggled in midfield (Rabiot was not reliable at all and Matuidi is a box-to-box player), and they played poorly. What was Trap thinking when he gave away that penalty as well? He's lucky Aguero missed it, and he's lucky a defender was running in and that he didn't get sent off...inside the area you don't go for the ball with your feet because you will be treated more harshly. Can't believe Blanc is playing him ahead of Sirigu (especially when until now he was the star keeper in Ligue 1); I hope he comes back to play in Serie A or maybe it would be good if he could go to another good team abroad. Can't believe Barca are out; they've gone through a rough two weeks, in La Liga as well, when they seemed really strong before. The frong three are out of form; Neymar and Suarez aren't scoring, and Messi isn't either so he's playing deeper, and although he's creating no one is putting them away. Would be nice to see Atletico get another win in La Liga. Best, Messirulez (talk) 15:58, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
@Messirulez: Bonucci for reference... Yes, they could try it out in the last two friendlies before the Euros. Yeah, it's too bad about that coefficient... We'll have to wait to overtake yet again. Sirigu is definitely a starting keeper that should not be on the bench, which is unfortunate. All we can do is see what happens... Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 16:06, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
Wow, that's great news! Thanks for all your help with cleaning up those two articles! I'll just gradually add in the extra citations and the minor adjustments but that's very exciting! Now I'm hoping to get the Del Piero and Baggio articles to that level (although they are at B-level for now, which isn't bad at all). Also, do you know how once judges whether Pirlo is an article of high or medium importance? It's listed as medium, but I think it should be of high importance. Thanks again! Best, Messirulez (talk) 13:48, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
@Messirulez: Yeah, Baggio and Del Piero are good candidates for good article status (although Del Piero was nominated for GA in 2012, but was declined on two occasions), although it is probably in much better shape today. I don't know how they rate the importance, but I could ask the reviewer of the articles as to what the process would be. Since Buffon is of high importance, Pirlo should be no different. I'll let you know. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 13:58, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
@Messirulez: These were the reviewers exact words: Hi Vaselineeeeeeee, an importance criteria is set by a WikiProject, which rates articles based on how important an article is to their project. I'm not well versed in football, but if Buffon is considered a more important article than Pirlo, then that might be set on how notable they are in the footballing industry. You can check out the importance criteria at WP:FOOTBALL, hopefully they should have explained it better than me there. Hope this helps. (Jaguar). I don't really know how it works, but I guess if that's what the project rated them at, that's what they are... You could inquire to the project if you wanted? Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 14:11, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
Hmmm...ok, thanks; I had left a request on the assessment page a while back, asking that the Pirlo article be re-assessed to either B or Good Article Class, and that its level of importance also be raised from medium to high, so hopefully someone will look into that! Best, Messirulez (talk) 14:31, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
@Messirulez: Thanks for linking that page. Wow, it seems you've inquired quite a bit with no response! That's unfortunate... For GA status though, I don't think they can do it from there since it must be formally nominated and reviewed at Wikipedia:Good article nominations. However, with the importance statues, they most definitely should be inquired at the project page like how you did, which is why it's odd no one has responded in quite a while... I think the main thing is getting them to GA, with the importances as secondary, although it would be nice to have both, especially some feedback, which you haven't gotten from anyone. The GA articles take months to be reviewed which is the down side to it. I bet you if you were to nominate Baggio and Del Piero now, with the reviews coming in a couple months, they would be passed, or at least give some feedback, put on hold in time for you and I or whoever else to make the necessary corrections, and then it will be passed. I don't think there is substantial work to be done on those articles. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 14:43, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Ciao, good news, the Pirlo article was reassessed and promoted to high importance! The Del Piero assessment was declined as it was already at high importance and already B class (the user recommend to go to the GA nomination page I linked above). Baggio and Buffon are at high importance already which is good (which means your Baggio assessment will likely be declined since it is already high importance and B class, so it must be taken to the formal GA nomination page for its quality). Now that all the importances seem to be right, just to get Del Piero and Baggio to GA status soon! Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 05:27, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Gianluigi Buffon

The article Gianluigi Buffon you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Gianluigi Buffon for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Jaguar -- Jaguar (talk) 21:41, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Andrea Pirlo

The article Andrea Pirlo you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Andrea Pirlo for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Jaguar -- Jaguar (talk) 22:21, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

UTC−04:00

I don't know what happened. It appeared as a red link to me as well even if I had copied the title from here. It became blue after I saved the page. --Tanonero (msg) 17:42, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

@Tanonero: Well, at least it's fixed now. It's odd though. I wasn't copying it from the UTC page itself, so from now on I guess I'll just copy it directly from the page itself and hopefully it works better that way... It shouldn't have to be like that, but oh well. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 18:08, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Domenico Berardi's Page

Hi i'm the same guy who changed Berardi's page early this morning, he never won the YPOTY because that award was discontinued since 2010, he won a different similar award but not the YPOTY (Serie A Young Footballer of the Year)! source: i'm italian i can read my own language ;) I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, but please edit the page because it's not correct. Ciao — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.232.139.115 (talk) 16:05, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Can I cc you? Is this IP correct? Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 16:10, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

What? Sorry but i don't understad, anyway trust me the award name is "Leader Under 21" (never heard before honestly) and is awarded by "Associazione Allenatori" (eng: manager association), the old award, Serie A Young Footballer of the Year, was awarded by "Associazione Calciatori" (eng: player association) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.232.139.115 (talk) 16:42, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

IP, I am asking one of my Italian friends who has a better knowledge about this sort of thing for further clarification. Just sit tight for now. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 16:44, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

Ok, no problem, if he is italian i'm sure he can confirm i'm right — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.232.139.115 (talk) 16:48, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

  • Yes; so I did some searching and even though the title says "Sassuolo, Berardi best young player 2013–14 according to the Association of Football Coaches", the actual award that Berardi received was the "Leader Under-21 Award", as the Serie A Young Footballer of the Year (and the "Giovane rivelazione della Serie A", which was strangely only awarded in 2012 to El Shaarawy and Muriel) has been discontinued since 2010 (I'm not sure why) when the format of the award ceremony changed. I hadn't actually realised this until now so thanks for pointing this out. Hope that helps! Best regards, Messirulez (talk) 13:25, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Okay, thanks for clearing that up. So should we use the same source that's there and just change it to "Leader Under-21 Award"? Thanks to you, IP, for pointing that out as well. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 14:29, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

I'm happy to have contributed, ciao! 79.31.140.126 (talk) 17:25, 25 April 2016 (UTC) Nit22

Fifa World XI / unofficials

Hi, how would you define the game against the World Stars as official? I believe it wasn't, as it was organised to celebrate the centenary of the FIGC. --Tanonero (msg) 18:19, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

After a brief research I believe you did well, as this comprehensive source doesn't list that match among the unofficial ones, yet it lists it among the official matches for the season 1998-1999. --Tanonero (msg) 18:26, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
@Tanonero: Ciao, England national football team results (1960–79)#1963 when England played their match against the "FIFA XI" or as they call it "rest of the world" and looking at the reports which don't say anything about unofficial. Also in RSSSF they state when the matches are unofficial, and they did not state this one as unofficial. Also, if you look at the hat trick scorer Enrico Chiesa, his international goals are counted as official goals, and they also record them on his Italian page. If you look at another player like Francesco Graziani who scored a hat trick in the unofficial 10-0 game over USA in 1975, his goals are not listed in his count. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 18:29, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
Yes :) Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 18:29, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
@Vaselineeeeeeee: I should've done my research before bothering you. :) --Tanonero (msg) 18:31, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
@Tanonero: haha no worries! I see you reviewed the unofficial reuslts page I made. That's a pretty cool right you have, autopatrolled? Now that I've made more then 25 articles, maybe I'll consider applying soon. If you see any fixes to the unofficial results, feel free to make them. Some matches I couldn't find any match reports, and what should be in the external links? All the RSSSF that apply? Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 18:35, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
I see you added the external link you referenced above, that works thanks and for updating the 230-->231. Again, if you find any match reports that would be great. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 18:42, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
Wait, the list you provided in external links lists many more unofficial matches than what RSSSF claims... RSSSF has been known to be off every so often, so should we just add the extra matches the cite you gave to the results page? Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 18:50, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
@Vaselineeeeeeee: That's what I thought. In the meanwhile I'll try to find some specific reports for those unofficial matches you already added. --Tanonero (msg) 19:04, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

@Tanonero: Ugh... The cite you gave for some reason doesn't let me copy and paste... does it let you for you? It would be sooo much more tedious if we can't copy and paste... maybe you have a different source? I can't seem to find any good Italian sources. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 19:07, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

@Vaselineeeeeeee: Neither can I, it's a trick for copyright reason. Also, no other sources, sorry. Besides, it's really difficult to find single comprehensive reports for some of those matches. --Tanonero (msg) 19:14, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
@Tanonero: That's true... So are you saying we don't need to add the rest of the matches? I think we still have to eventually since it would be inaccurate to only list those few. Even if there are no singular match reports to put in the tables, we still have that source that confirms it. The England unofficial results don't state singular reports (which I'm not saying is right, but that's what it has to come down to). Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 19:17, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
No, I agree, we should add the rest of the matches. The external link got them covered. All I was saying is that having singular match reports would have been better, but they aren't around. --Tanonero (msg) 22:17, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
@Tanonero: Yeah, exactly, agreed. It would be great to have the match reports, but most are simply not attainable. I'll try to get the unofficial results article complete first as I already mistakingly made it incomplete. I put that template up for now while we get it in order. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 00:07, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
  • @Tanonero: Ciao. Okay, so I've just completed (to a certain extent) the unofficial matches, however there are a few where the times and the stadiums weren't present, as well as I couldn't find some players' and referees' first names. There were also absolutely no match reports (especially since most of them are against clubs... I think if they were national teams they would be easier to find like the Greece match (it was also a more recent match at that so maybe that's a factor)). There are a few years that I left blank at the moment since I don't understand the info.. For example what's "Rappr. Svedese"? I know it's something to do with Sweden but is it the national team, is it a club? I can't find anything. Also "Rappr. Franco-Belgia"? A France ad Belgium hybrid team? Also the "English Wanderers"? There are several teams with "Wanderers" attached to it... it can't be the Wanderers F.C. since they were dissolved before the game was played but it may be Wolverhampton Wanderers F.C. or Bolton Wanderers F.C.... The times of the goals are not given either. And lastly, take a look at the game in 1917 against Belgium. To me, it makes no sense because they are saying Aldo Cevenini is scoring for Belgium even though he is Italian, and I can't find a player named Ballyn... I don't know, what to do... Sorry for going on so long, maybe you know what to do. Thanks. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 15:01, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
I'll try to mop up some of it. What I can say now is that "Rappr." probably means "Rappresentativa", which is the Italian for selection. So, those were selections of players from a certain country, yet not quite worthy to be defined as the selections A. "Rappr. Franco-Belgian" is a French-Belgian selection as you figured it out. Perhpahs we should include only the games about which we have a fair amount of certain information and mark the list as incomplete. --Tanonero (msg) 16:48, 27 April 2016 (UTC) P.S.: I saw that many of those results have been suggested by this website, however, I didn't find any reference to that match against the English Wanderers in it. I don't know, I am starting to think that we should remove the games without a reliable match report or with no more than one source reporting the game, but it's up to you. --Tanonero (msg) 17:00, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
@Tanonero: Okay that makes more sense. They did face the Hungary B team earlier so maybe the Rappr. teams are B teams? The England unofficial match page doesn't even list the scores or reports! Even though we don't have that much info, I still think we should just include all the games they say in the italia1910 page and maybe for the players we don't know we just don't list the scorers and tag the article with a template saying it's incomplete as you said. This way we have all the games shown, but some other info like referees and scorers are uncertain. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 16:59, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
@Tanonero: But if we remove all the matches with no report, it will be removing three quarters of the list... I understand the dilemma though, it's a tough call to make... Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 17:04, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
Yes, but at the end of the day we report what it is available, which I guess it's better than nothing. Besides, considering that you have drawn information from the external link (and, therefore, you haven't speculated at all), I'd remove the refsection templates as they look ugly as hell. On a side note, I believe that a valuable source of information would be the digitised archived of the biggest Italian newspaper, but that'd take an amount of time that I can't dedicate at the moment. Just curios, how good is your Italian? --Tanonero (msg) 18:26, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

@Tanonero: Haha, yes, they do look ugly as hell don't they! I'll take them down since what you said is true, we haven't speculated, they are from that source. My Italian is alright, I'm second generation, so the language has unfortunately been lost quite a bit down the line. I'm trying to pick it up more with my nonno living with me and all. I go back to university next week so in the meantime I'm trying to get all this work out of the way before I go back. Maybe you can pass along that digitized archive newspaper and maybe I can sift through it. I can usually read and understand the Italian more than I can speak it, but even if worst comes to worst, I can pop it into a translator (although they don't always work well), but I can give it a go! Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 18:37, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

@Tanonero: No good? Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 12:35, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
How do you mean? :) --Tanonero (msg) 13:26, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
@Tanonero: Like, are you able pass along that digitized newspaper source? Maybe I can have a look since I have a bit of time and see if there is anything we can clean up in the unofficial results. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 13:33, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
Ah, ok. I meant the archive section of the websites of the biggest Italian newspaper. For instance, you can start by checking the archive of la Repubblica, Corriere della Sera and Gazzetta dello Sport, but I don't know how much back in time one can look in each of them. Enjoy! --Tanonero (msg) 13:48, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
@Tanonero: Great, thanks! Do you think these newspapers would actually publish something on an unofficial friendly? Anyway, I'll give them a look and see what I can find. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 13:53, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
They might for some of them. Regards, --Tanonero (msg) 15:55, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
  • @Tanonero: Io non poteva trovare niente! I spent a decent amount of time searching through the links, but, unless I'm not searching it right, it was non resultant. Some of the sites didn't go back far enough as you said. I even tried searching for the most recent Fluminense match just to test, and nothing turned up, in dello Sport at least... I guess for now I'll just try to finish up the 80s results and if we ever have time later for the unofficial results, we'll do it then, but for now it should be fine. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 17:19, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
As you can see, I found a few reports. I went backwards from the most recent game and I stopped when I couldn't find anything on the friendly against Puebla. I'll keep researching later. P.S.: poteva is the third singular person, potevo is for first person, but still not quite right. You could have written: Non sono riuscito a trovare niente (I wasn't able to find anything). --Tanonero (msg) 17:50, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
@Tanonero: Good job finding some reports. I was only searching for the very early years since those are the ones where we don't even know some of the scorers and the times. For those, I found nothing, maybe you will have better luck. If you couldn't find anything on Pebuela (1985 match), then that's not a good sign for any of the earlier matches in the 20s etc (no wonder I couldn't find anything). Non lo so, ancora, forse si avrà più fortuna (maybe I'm making a fool of myself now, but I figured I'd give it another shot!) :) Haha, yes, I figured I would probably get something wrong, but I tried anyway! I don't really know my tenses of words and usually just kind of say what I know literally as I know they would get the gist of it. Man, I wish I knew the language better! How did you learn English so well if you don't mind me asking? If you aren't born into the language, it's probably one of the hardest languages to learn! Best regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 18:06, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
The more you practice, the better you get. It seems pretty obvious, but it is the only way I know to improve a language. With regards to my English, well, I've been living in Scotland for three years and doing a PhD, so I ended up improving it. However, when I firstly arrived here, although I had studied it for years, I was clueless! In terms of grammar English is one of the easiest to learn, nothing compared to the rules of the Latin languages. The problems come a bit with the weird phonetics. Returning on topic, I will focus my effort on the first matches, hoping to get some report. --Tanonero (msg) 23:07, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
@Tanonero: I don't know any other language as well as I do English, but it seems like it would be hard to learn if I already wasn't accustomed to it. A classic example is "they're", "their" and "there". Or even the phrase, "we were HELD to a draw". If you follow the regular rules of adding the past tense "ed" suffix, you would think it would be "we were HOLDED to a draw". Even the differences between "wood" and "would" and silent letters like "e" on the end of most words like "improve" which makes it sound like "improov". Or even homonyms like "know" and "no". Odd silent "k". A lot of the grammar isn't that simple. To me, I think English is definitely up there for difficulty because it's structure is so different from other languages. Then the phonetics can be tricky as well like you said, for example "comfort" is often pronounced like "comfert". (At least in North America, might be different in Scotland/England). Italian has it's fair share of those too though like how the "ch" in most words makes a "kh" sound like "Chiellini" or "bruschetta" (always drives me crazy when people say it with a "ch" like it was English). I remember watching a Sebastian Giovinco interview for Toronto FC where he tried to say some things in English and said "celebration" like "ch-elebration" because in Italian just a "c" makes the "ch" sound, correct? I got a little chuckle out of that. I know a "double c" like in "ghiaccio" also makes a "ch" sound. Anyway, hopefully you will be able to find some more reports, and good luck with your PhD! It's pretty bold to leave your comfort zone to a brand new country and language like that, good on you. Best regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 23:45, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

Re

Thanks again for your help with cleaning up the articles as well! Best regards, Messirulez (talk) 04:13, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

No problem, glad to help! Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 12:13, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Help - page curation issue

Hi there. So basically, on April 26 I created the new page Italy national football team results (unofficial matches) but for some reason it isn't showing in my list of page creations here or here. It can't be that it still needs time to process since I created a page after that one and it's already listed. I am puzzled why this page isn't on the list of articles I created? Thanks for the help. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 19:15, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Hi there. We had some discussion on IRC about this and a guess is that it may be a back-end issue with something both tools rely on. The recommendation was for you to go to https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/ and file a bug report there, so that it can be looked into. Cheers, Nick⁠—⁠Contact/Contribs 20:13, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

"Overall" Section under "Competitions"

Hey man, could you do me a huge favor and install that "Overall" table you made for the Juventus article on the Roma article as well for 2016–17? Eventually I want all twenty 2016–17 season articles to have that table. Thanks! Italia2006 (talk) 15:38, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: No problem, done. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 15:54, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

Re: Italy Records

  • Great work! I know a couple I can add off the top of my head: Zoff's record unbeaten streak at international level, for example, and Zenga's record unbeaten streak from Italia 90. Also, I can add that Balotelli and Cassano are Italy's top scorers in European Championships with 3 goals each, although unfortunately I've never been able to find a source for Rossi, Balotelli and De Rossi being Italy's top scorers at the Confederations Cup with 2 goals each, but I can look for that. As for penalties and free-kicks...I don't know if those records are kept anywhere, but I can check (I should probably add those to the Football Records in Italy article at some poin though, as there are reliable sources that mention the top five scorers at least). Best regards, Messirulez (talk) 14:13, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
@Messirulez: Thanks for the support! You'll notice that I already put the Balo/Cassano record, however if you can find a source that would be great! Any additional records would be great. Thanks again. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 14:15, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for all your additions! One thing though: how come you removed the "alongside Casillas, etc" for Buffon since that's how it says it in his records section on his article. Is that not accurate anymore? If not, it should be removed from his page too. Thanks. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 15:12, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
Sorry, I assumed we were only speaking of Italian national team records and personal bests, so I only kept Buffon and Zenga; is that not the case? In that case, should I remove Zoff's European Championship streak, which Casillas broke in 2012? Messirulez (talk) 15:22, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
Oh, okay, yes, I agree with your removal, it makes sense since it should only be about Italy records. Take a look at England national football team records too, they outline a ton of stuff. But, I think you're assumption is the best one to go with since we do the same with the amount of appearances and goals since there are other teams that have more appearances than Maldini at the World Cup for example, so it makes sense. Keep it up. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 15:34, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Once again, thanks for your citations and additions. One thing: how do we know Maldini is the longest serving captain since his captaincy range is 8 years but there are others such as Cannavaro and Boniperti who also have a captaincy range of 8 years? Maybe, if you know the exact dates, it would be useful to put them since it would avoid any confusion. Thanks again, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 12:27, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: As soon as you changed it to Buffon and Cannavaro, I noticed Giacinto Facchetti had 1966-1977 (which we didn't catch before). I was going to change it, and then you had that realization at the same time! :) Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 18:20, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
Ciao. Sorry, I can't comprehend everything they're saying in that Repubblica source... But from what I understand that 1910 game against Hungary is classified as an official match. So wouldn't that make Renzo De Vecchi the youngest debutant as well as the youngest player to ever play? Thanks for clearing some things up. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 22:28, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
Ok, I had found some conflicting yet reliable sources, which confused me, as several said Bergomi was the youngest, and some De Vecchi, so I assumed that possibly De Vecchi's match wasn't official, but I was obviously wrong. I think I found something which clears everything up: Bercomi is the youngest post Second World War debutant, so I might still put that as it seems to be important (http://archiviostorico.gazzetta.it/1997/ottobre/31/esordienti_battuto_Maldini_piu_giovane_ga_0_9710312373.shtml?refresh_ce-cp). Apparently there is also a strong possibility that Gavinelli was the youngest debutant ahead of De Vecchi, but his actual date of birth is uncertain, so it can't be confirmed, so I might include him as the unofficial debutant as well. I might have to do the same with Giacone as well, who, according to the source in La Repubblica, is technically the youngest goalkeeper to play for Italy, but, as with Gavinelli, his actual date of birth can't be confirmed, so it is not entirely certain whether he was actually younger than Buffon or not on his debut, although he was widely believed to be. Best, Messirulez (talk) 12:42, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
Rodolfo Gavinelli's birthday is said to be 1 January 1895 as sourced by it.wiki [1] and they say his first cap was on 9 April 1911. For Giovanni Giacone they say his birthday is 1 December 1900 with his first cap as a goalkeeper on 28 March 1920. So that would make Gavinelli 16 years and about 4 months (I think De Vecchi would still be younger) and Giacone 19 years and 4 months (making him younger than Buffon), if I did that correctly. It's a matter of sources though. But I mean, if you can't find any, we should still put the accurate one based on their age. And yes, we could probably break it up into pre and post WWII. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 13:03, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
Yes, those are the dates of birth in the sources, but at the same time, the sources also state that it is not entirely certain whether the recorded dates of birth at the time were accurate; if they are indeed correct, however, then that would make Gavinelli the youngest player, ahead of De Vecchi, and Giacone the youngest goalkeeper, ahead of Buffon. Is the way I arranged it now ok? Best, Messirulez (talk) 13:38, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

Good format, I'll just outlined what I added: I changed 1945 to pre/post World War II to emphasize the significance in the time period, the note a bit, and after looking at England national football team records, you can't have a youngest debutant and a youngest player to feature in a match since they would be the same thing. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 22:02, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

Help - interlanguage links

Hi there. I can't seem to get the page Football records in Italy to display the corresponding page in Italian Statistiche della Serie A (however if you're on that page in Italian, it shows the English link). Also there is a Turkish link there, however, it is not an appropriate page to link with the records page and I can't seem to remove it since I can't find the language when I try to edit the interlanguage links. Thanks for the help. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 19:43, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

I think it has to be entered like this. Basically, it's it:[Page name]. Is that right? -- Ricky81682 (talk) 19:51, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
@Ricky81682: Thanks, it looks good. I didn't realize they were at the bottom of the page. Thanks again. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 19:56, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Luca Toni

I've started again an SPI case at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Biar122‎ and put a WP:3RR warning on his/her talk page. I hope that this will be sufficient. --Jaellee (talk) 20:54, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

@Jaellee: Thanks. It's just been page protected and Humanchino blocked so that should do the trick for now. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 20:57, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
Each time someone adds Albanian descent to Luca Toni or Lionel Messi it is nearly sure that it is a sock puppet of Biar122 (talk · contribs). Thanks to @Ponyo: for protecting the article and blocking the sock puppets. --Jaellee (talk) 21:06, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
@Jaellee: Good to know, I'll keep an eye out now. Maybe, for your interest, a while back there was a situation of Arbereshe Albanian descent on Antonio Candreva. To me, it seemed legitemiate and is still there today. Maybe if you want to take a look at the sources further and/or the talk page for the users, have at it. There was a user Walnut77, but he doesn't seem to be blocked today. Thanks. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 21:24, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Editor's Barnstar
Good calcio work DSquib (talk) 21:45, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
@DSquib: Thanks! And thanks for fixing my mistake on the 2016-17 page. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 22:22, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

List of Italian football champions

I re-responded on the talk page and outlined my reasons for the edits so please provide your justification. I am happy to be open-minded if you have a better argument.

rollback

Hi Vaselineeeeeeee. After reviewing your request for "rollbacker", I have enabled rollback on your account. Keep in mind these things when going to use rollback:

  • Getting rollback is no more momentous than installing Twinkle.
  • Rollback should be used to revert clear cases of vandalism only, and not good faith edits.
  • Rollback should never be used to edit war.
  • If abused, rollback rights can be revoked.
  • Use common sense.

If you no longer want rollback, contact me and I'll remove it. Also, for some more information on how to use rollback, see Wikipedia:New admin school/Rollback (even though you're not an admin). I'm sure you'll do great with rollback, but feel free to leave me a message on my talk page if you run into troubles or have any questions about appropriate/inappropriate use of rollback. Thank you for helping to reduce vandalism. Happy editing! Katietalk 13:07, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

My bad

Sorry about the table shenanigans, I was being negligent and didn't realize that the "Total" needed bolding. The other three tables don't, I wonder why this one does. My bad. Italia2006 (talk) 20:35, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

@Italia2006: No problem. But that is rather odd, eh? I tried playing around with it for a few minutes and couldn't figure out a difference that made it like that. No trouble anyhow. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 00:48, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
Archive 1←Archive 4Archive 5Archive 6Archive 7Archive 8→Archive 10
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Vaselineeeeeeee/Archive_6&oldid=733597606"