User talk:Vanisaac/Archive10

Please remember to Assume Good Faith

I'd prefer it if you didn't litter my page with you misguided accusations.

Please do not accuse other editors of editing in bad faith. I did not search out whatever source would agree with my spelling correction, I sought out the exact source you indicated and found that you were mistaken on the Oxford spelling of "targeting". From all the information I have seen, including Google n-grams of spelling in British publications, your preferred spelling of "targetting" is not supported anywhere. (I am watching this page, so please reply here.) VanIsaac, MPLL contWpWS 05:22, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

"not supported anywhere"?, except the first place I looked… The dictionary definition of targetting at Wiktionary…American and British English spelling differences#Doubled consonants
and the second place…targetted
And I can see a lot more of each way of spelling it. Your reference to the Ngram chart simply indicates the frequency of usage. It would appear they have now become categorised as variant spellings with my version being used less and less. I hope you realise just how bothersome it is having a non-native trying to tell you how to spell in your own language? 48Pills (talk) 17:19, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

@48Pills:, then you needed to actually cite Wiktionary if you wanted me to check Wiktionary. But you didn't. You cited it as the Oxford spelling. When I checked Oxford for your preferred spelling, it was not supported, and I acted solely on that basis. I specifically checked Oxford because you cited it for the preferred British English spelling, and the list of misspellings that identified that article as needing a spelling correction is carefully curated to not override WP:ENGVAR. It is used by dozens of semi-automated scripts and tools on Wikipedia, including WP:AWB, and it is critically important that it does not change preferred spellings of localized English varieties. So any possible violation of ENGVAR on that list needs to be investigated and corrected, and that's what I did.

The problem never was the preferred spelling, and I honestly have zero skin in the game as to what the correct spelling is, only that Wikipedia actually follow it. The immense problem is that you assumed bad faith on my part, accusing me of "searching until you find a dictionary that doesn't say you're incorrect" instead of checking the exact source that you cited, namely "British English Oxford spelling". Your accusation was in exact opposition to the conscientiousness that I actually took on this matter with. So I'm asking you to apologize here for your behavior, and to ask an admin for a WP:RevDel of your edit summary which accused me of acting in bad faith. VanIsaac, MPLL ^cont_WpWS 18:23, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

And after checking the Wiktionary entry, it's not even just an alternate spelling in British English, it is an uncommon variant apparently used only about 5% of the time in British sources. VanIsaac, MPLL ^cont_WpWS 18:38, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Vanisaac "critically important"…I somehow doubt that…"violation of ENGVAR"…"zero skin" yet it's an "immense problem"? Maybe it's your soap?…"exact opposition to the conscientiousness"…"it is an uncommon variant"…yes, already said that, it's still a variant nonetheless.
More or less what I expected…You carry on checking or whatever else drives your boat, and I'll carry on doing whatever for my benefit…As for that other bit in the middle there…I couldn't make head nor tail of it for all the spelling mistakes…You have a good day now…ya' hear? (I am watching this page, so please reply here.) 48Pills (talk) 22:31, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

@48Pills: The immense problem is your attitude and violation of a core tenet of Wikipedia. I have asked you nicely to apologize and to get a RevDel of your edit summary under WP:AGF. I ask you for the last time to do so. VanIsaac, MPLL ^cont_WpWS 02:29, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Vanisaac You are incredibly arrogant and condescending, that's not an insult, just an observation. 48Pills (talk) 20:34, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

"Template:Str right subst" listed at Redirects for discussion

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Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Maintenance Indic glyph not embedded

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Kaktovik digits

Article just saw another surge in page views, though not as high as last year. I wonder what's driving it? Maybe s.t. in the local news. — kwami (talk) 21:24, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Infobox tartan/style

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German Sign Language

Hello. Should English Wikipedia's letter articles include German Sign Language and other non-English sign languages? If so then we should probably add it to {{Letter other reps}} rather than adding separate galleries as in T#Other representations. I checked the sign languages for English-speaking countries recently; ASL and BANZSL seem to cover everywhere except Zambia, on which we have insufficient information. I'd assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that we didn't need to deal with non-English-speaking countries. Certes (talk) 01:18, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

@Certes: The letter "T" is the only letter with a different representation in German Sign Language (DGS) vs. American Sign Language (ASL), so I don't think this one-off warrants redesigning the template. Other than that, DGS has a few extra signs for variant letters - Ä, Ö, Ü, and ß - that are just the base ASL character with an up/down motion, and one unique sign for the trigraph "sch". Now when we are able to get around to documenting things like the Swedish, Spanish, Austrian, and Polish sign language families, we'll definitely need to figure out what we want to do with this template, and I'm 100% open to suggestions on fitting 6 sign language families' fingerspelling signs into a coherent presentation. VanIsaac, MPLL ^cont_WpWS 02:55, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Sorry I missed your second point. The letter articles are written from a culturally neutral perspective, and are distinctly not limited to their use in the English language. The representation of that letter in any sign language should be germane to en.wikipedia. VanIsaac, MPLL ^cont_WpWS 03:09, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

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holy jesus instant reversal

The syllabic "n" is actually derived from "mu" historically

but how?

Great Mercian (talk) 20:48, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

@Great Mercian: It's just the historic phonology of the Japanese language. The syllabic nasal ん used to be pronounced more like /m/, and its hiragana is derived from a character 无 with the pronunciation "mu". The standardization of ん as representing only "n" and not also "mu" only happened around the turn of the 20th century. There's a bit of information on it at n (kana), but there are all kinds of remnants of this identity, like the braille for ん being the consonant signifier from the ま series. VanIsaac, MPLL ^cont_WpWS 00:59, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

"Ṝ" listed at Redirects for discussion

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Merge AfD note

You may have noticed that I finally found time yesterday to run through several days' worth of AfD, tagging any that had proposed mergers with the templates you so kindly created. On the whole it has been well received, and even where there has been resistance it has at least been a chance to send people to my original intended discussion opener.

The issue you might be able to help with is the appearance of the signature on the Merge AfD note template: It is comparatively very lage and somewhat displaced, compared to the neat way that a sig fits in with, for example, the relisting templates that are very common in AfD conversations.

Many thanks, Kevin McE (talk) 15:58, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Okay, I've added an automatic signature inside a <small>...</small> tag like in the relisting template. VanIsaac, MPLL ^cont_WpWS 16:59, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick response, but I'm afraid that is just showing the 4 tildes, rather than my name and the timestamp. Kevin McE (talk) 17:07, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Wow, I literally copied the code from the relist template. Can you give me a link to your edit where it didn't work? VanIsaac, MPLL ^cont_WpWS 17:20, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Idol: The Musical I didn't sign the ones I did yesterday because of the way it was coming out in preview: I was reprimanded for that, so I included the (outsized) sig in this one today. Thanks for your perseverance. Kevin McE (talk) 17:25, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Bad example, that was before your tweaking: see my sandbox Kevin McE (talk) 17:27, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

I just took a look in your edit history and saw your sandbox page. The issue is that you didn't substitute the template. If you only transclude, the Wiki software doesn't have the ability to expand the four tildes. VanIsaac, MPLL ^cont_WpWS 17:30, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for your patience: I'm an idiot... Kevin McE (talk) 17:44, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

There has been a reasonably positive response to the first tranch on my rolling out these templates: where there has been a problem it has been either me misentering variables or my taking too comprehensive an approach, which I shall dial back.

But what has emerged is the issue of relisting at AfD: because the template sends the reader to the date specific AfD discussion, that link is lost if the AfD is relisted. As far as I can see, that problem is avoided by the Template:Article for deletion/dated (which seems to be used to the almost complete exclusion of Template:Article for deletion without the '/dated' add-on. Is that do-able? I wish I knew how to do all that stuff for myself, but I am from a pre-programming (for the masses) generation, and never got into that mindset. Kevin McE (talk) 13:16, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

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World Chess Championship 2023

Hi Vanisaac, I have noticed that you are the one who made a new template about chess match (Infobox chess match). I have tried your new template in the article about the next World Chess Championship (Ian Nepomniachtchi vs Ding Liren), and the template seems to be working fine. Feel free to make some further edits if necessary. Cheers. RyanW1995 (talk) 08:47, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

• @RyanW1995: Glad it seems to be working well for you and isn't too complicated. I made it in response to a template request by User:Cyrobyte, but it's good to see others taking it on so soon. Unless some issues with using this guy start to come up, I'm probably not going to be doing much more maintenance or implementing it anywhere else, so please go wild adding this to all the existing chess championships and matches you can find. This project actually made me aware that we have some gaps in our current infobox architecture that interests me. I am going to be exploring the possibility of a multi-column infobox base template for building infoboxes for things like sports events and elections because of this little project. VanIsaac, MPLL ^cont_WpWS 17:41, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Competition infobox templates

A tag has been placed on Category:Competition infobox templates indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

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@Liz: Please wait a few days so new template categories have time to propogate their members. Server lag especially hits these types of categories hard. VanIsaac, MPLL ^cont_WpWS 03:56, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

Net worth removal

You are not removing the parameter properly when it has a reference. You are not removing the entire reference which breaks the infobox. See the errors in Category:Pages using infobox person with unknown parameters. MB 01:51, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

• Oops, thank you for giving me that category to check. I've been catching most of these, but obviously have had a few slip through the cracks here. The regex automatically deletes to the line break, but some of the cite templates are being put on multiple lines against their normal format.

@MB: Yep, looks like there were 17 incomplete reference removals out of the 1850 updated infoboxes so far. I'll get through the last 640 on my list and check that maintenance category again. Again, much thanks for your help. VanIsaac, MPLL ^cont_WpWS 02:16, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

IMO going too fast. I needed to repair a broken reference on Barry Sherman. Other problem, sometimes the net worth is only available in the infobox, which case the ref should be moved into the main article. -- GreenC 03:05, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

That's why I'm saving every change made to User:Vanisaac/AWB log. Once I'm finished I will pull out all the extraneous information and split it up alphabetically. VanIsaac, MPLL ^cont_WpWS 03:07, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

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Nomination for deletion of Template:Billion

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Hi

Hi 24.245.126.167 (talk) 19:08, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Houston Stewart Chamberlain

Please do not remove parameters from infoboxes simply because they are empty if it's possible that they might be filled in at a later time when more information comes to light. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:34, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

I see you've done this hundreds of times. Please rollback your edits, as they do not improve the encyclopedia. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:36, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Strike that, thousands of such edits. Mass edits of that kind should only be done after getting a specific consensus to do so. Looking at the frequency of your edits, it looks like you're using automation of some kind. Automated edits in particular need approval from the community. Did you seek consensus or approval? Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:42, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Those are not just empty parameters, they are empty and unsupported parameters. Specifically they are category:Pages using infobox person with unknown empty parameters. Editors who add a value for any of these will not change the page output - it is functionally comment code in the wikitext. Information that is strictly useful to editors is the only content that should be hidden that way. VanIsaac, LLE ^cont_WpWS 05:40, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

If you are removing only parameters which do not exist -- or no longer exist -- in their infoboxes, then that is of course fine, and I apologize, but if you are removing supported parameters which just happen to be empty, but which might be filled in at some future time, then that is a problem. Beyond My Ken (talk) 07:20, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

No, absolutely all of the parameters I'm hitting are unsupported by the infobox. Some of them are deprecated, I suspect several are ported from infoboxes that were merged with infobox person. If a parameter has a value, but is unsupported, my WP:AWB code won't remove it so it is available to be put into the article. The only exceptions are a few like religion, ethnicity and net worth that were found to be in violation of policy. VanIsaac, LLE ^cont_WpWS 19:46, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

OK, thanks for the explanation, and, again, my apologies. Beyond My Ken (talk) 19:49, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

That's okay. At least you were checking up on what was happening when you didn't know. VanIsaac, LLE ^cont_WpWS 21:35, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Cosmetic edits with AWB

Please don't make cosmetic edits with AWB like Special:Diff/1110534111. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 02:31, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Those are not cosmetic edits, they are unsupported parameters that throw a maintenance error. I am cleaning out a maintenance backlog of around 30k of these bad parameters called in infobox person. VanIsaac, LLE ^cont_WpWS 02:44, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

How are readers affected by this? NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 03:06, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Editors are affected by it. Unsupported infobox parameters that editors are erroneously led to believe are valid cause them to waste time and effort trying to fill out those fields to no effect, distracting them actually productive editing. Plus, I'm not just removing invalid parameters, I'm also fixing typos, consolidating redundant parameter aliases, and applying AWB genfixes to pages that may not get much attention, and also enabling future maintainers to make the same kind of fixes precisely because the maintenance category isn't jammed with thousands of hits for unsupported and deprecated parameters. Much like previous WP:wikignome tasks I've undertaken, this is about keeping the back end of the encyclopedia functioning well for everybody. You may not see these types of housekeeping tasks as essential, and that's just fine. But I'm not breaking anything, and the fact that you don't recognize how important these kinds of tasks can be is frankly why they have people like me - to make sure people like you never have to encounter when those kinds of things do end up being essential. VanIsaac, LLE ^cont_WpWS 04:09, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

• Oh, and just to demonstrate how much of an outlier this particular maintenance backlog is, among the 521 maintenance categories in Category:Infoboxes with unknown parameters only three other infoboxes populate more than a thousand pages, and the largest has only about 1/4 of what this one started with. This is truly an unprecedented amount of deferred maintenance I am tackling here. VanIsaac, LLE ^cont_WpWS 05:05, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Nicolas Belfrage page

Hello, I know that you have edited Nicolas Belfrage’s page. I am sad to report that he passed away in London on September 17, 2022. Perhaps you could update the page as I don’t know how to do this. If you need further information, please advise the best way for me contact you, or another admin Who has the relevant access. (I will check this page again in a couple of days.) 90.242.55.161 (talk) 21:41, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

@90.242.55.161: I am running basically a script that does maintenance on a huge collection of pages, and Nicolas just happened to be one of those. But fortunately, there is no restriction on editing his page. Just click on the edit button at the top of the page (this might be something like a pencil icon, depending on how you are accessing Wikipedia) and you can add it yourself. The big thing is that you will definitely want to have something like a link to a news article announcing his passing that you can put in there. Just add on to the first paragraph on the page that he passed on Sept 17, and then paste the webpage link between <ref>...</ref> tags at the end of the sentence or two that you added. If you want a bit more info on adding your new content, you can visit help:editing. VanIsaac, LLE ^cont_WpWS 00:05, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

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A barnstar for you!

	The Barnstar of Diligence
	Cleaning up Category:Pages using infobox person with unknown empty parameters looks like a tremendous amount of work. It's quite helpful --- this will reduce the probability that newer editors junk up Person infoboxes. Thanks for doing this!!!! — hike395 (talk) 23:07, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

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		Thank you so much for making the final piece of my BSicon map! It is a very big deal for me and I can finally make the map public, and thus help make Wikipedia a better place! Hotdog with ketchup (talk) 05:13, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

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