User talk:Utsill

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Please comment on Talk:International Justice Mission

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Memphis Meats

Hey Utsill,

So, I don't know what's going on at Memphis Meats anymore. The RfC is a wacky and crazy thing, with a survey that clearly diverges from the discussion. In a perfect world / how Wikipedia is usually run, we would have gotten to the point we might be at now ... and then a third party or RfC would be initiated, but alas Wikipedia doesn't always run perfectly.

Nonetheless, here's two basic truths:

1. There's a bloc of users who aren't really affiliated with the article (or engaging in discussion) that are voting among three versions of an article. These three versions are all pretty dated, and unfortunately none of the voters have looked down to examine new information (though that's not really their fault), but it is nonetheless true that they certainly support Version 2.
2. There's four or five users having a discussion in the RfC's discussion session. What we currently have - which took all of us compromising - is listed under current version. Now you listed 4 issues you had with the article; I attempted to address two of them (I fixed the product launch accuracy issue and I hyperlinked in-vitro (while earlier I made sure we have hyperlinks to cultured meat), but I just don't think you're going to get a consensus around the taste/sustainability claims or around the specific products. (A hard maybe to specific products.)

I don't say this to discourage you from making your arguments, but I do want to prepare you that there might be some blowback. You saw that Jytdog responded to your last comment by saying "There's no need to continue this discussion." I think that there's a reasonable chance that a user closing the RfC either doesn't read the discussion or otherwise pretends like the vote isn't a sham, and version 2 gets the go-ahead. So at some point, it might be worth it to cut your losses on those two claims, assuming you prefer the current discussed version to version 2. Totally up to you.--216.12.10.118 (talk) 19:58, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. That all seems reasonable to me. I don't have much experience with RfC's. Hopefully if someone does try to close it based on those misleading votes, there will be an avenue for me to contest it. Utsill (talk) 20:07, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

I am not quite as confident as you that the avenue will be there. At some point Wikipedians generally like to move on from issues (there's a degree of inertia); plus even if the situation is wacky; it's not altogether clear that a majority would / wouldn't support version 2 (compared to the current version ... who knows, but it does seem like version 3 is not getting a lot of support). Additionally, I do think you'll find that the opposition to the taste notes will be pretty across the board (as they are now), which will make your case harder. Nonetheless, obviously continue as you see fit!--216.12.10.118 (talk) 20:11, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

Fair enough. My understanding is that we need consensus though, not just a majority vote. If it is decided on majority, I don't think I have much hope. If I were forced to give a single option to win against #2, I would do away with the "taste" bit, the "cultured" bit," and the "commercial release" bit, since I think the "sustainability" bit is the most important. Utsill (talk) 20:17, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

How wikipedia ideally runs vs. how it actually runs sometimes vary. I'd suggest making a pitch for sustainability in the discussion. I could potentially see an argument for sustainability coming out (though I'm currently leaning against, I much more open to that than I am to the taste). The trick will be relying on third party sources and not the company's own claims (unless its third party sources describing the company's ethos, which might be okay)--216.12.10.118 (talk) 20:25, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

I think third party suggestions of the sustainability benefits of cultured meat in general are less useful for this page than the company's statements of their products' sustainability benefits. Though in my general inclusionist perspective, I think the general benefits would be good to include in an ideal WP. Utsill (talk) 20:44, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Ivan Milat

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Please comment on Talk:List of all-female bands

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Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Good article reassessment

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Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Non-admin closure

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Opinion on recent edits to Direct Action Everywhere?

Hey Utsill,

I just deleted a sub-section of "Tactics" in Direct Action Everywhere. Definitely felt like it was more guilty than most other parts of the article that read like an advertisement. Also added some additional info one one of their Whole Foods open rescue. Would love to hear a second opinion if you've got one Rejewskifan (talk) 05:50, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the message. In this situation, I would have pinged me like this: @Rejewskifan: on the DxE Talk page instead of leaving the message on my Talk page. Your edits appear good to me. I think the information you cut was either poorly cited enough or unimportant and positively-spun enough to justify that deletion. I only did a little line editing for you :) Utsill (talk) 00:26, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics

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Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style

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Please comment on Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)

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Please comment on Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)

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Please comment on Talk:Blockbuster LLC

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Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Deletion process

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Please comment on Talk:List of United States presidential assassination attempts and plots

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Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Criteria for speedy deletion

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Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Biographies

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Please comment on Talk:Danica Roem

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Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Layout

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Please comment on Wikipedia talk:What Wikipedia is not

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Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Anime- and manga-related articles

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Please comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Professional wrestling/Sources

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Please comment on Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)

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Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Notability (academics)

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Please comment on Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)

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Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Requests for adminship

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Request for feedback on cell ag company draft

Hello @Utsill: - I notice that cellular agriculture is one of your stated interests. If you're able and willing, would you take a look at a draft article about a cell ag company for me? (Find it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Perfect_Day_(company) ) I have disclosed a COI and tried to write it in as neutral language as possible, but it was nevertheless rejected for reading like an advertisement. I did reach out to the reviewer for feedback (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:CodeLyoko#Perfect_Day_(company) ), and I'd like to get the tone right. It's possible that I'm too close to the subject - would you mind taking a look and offering your thoughts? Thanks in advance. BlackMaus (talk) 20:36, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

Also, as I'm still a bit of a newb here - any advice on how to appropriately use links? (I'm quite sure I did it inappropriately above...) *sheepish grin* Thanks... BlackMaus (talk) 21:06, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

ANI where I mentioned you

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Disruptive editing by User:Drmies. Nil Einne (talk) 09:42, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

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