User talk:Untold Unfold

If you add names in an article such as Mural please only add notable names. On wikipedia notable is defined as having an article about that person. So you will need to write an article first, then add the blue linked name to the list. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 13:55, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

And I look forward to your revelations of suppressed and otherwise unknown aspects of Indian culture. Carptrash (talk) 14:15, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding Jabalpur's Jackson's Family Hotel and Royal Hotel

Please see

You can see Jackson's Family Hotel name was used in 1879-1882. The Royal Hotel names shows up only for 1955-1978. It probably ceased being a hotel in 1965.

Malaiya (talk)

Thanks for your research and references which tend to settle the following -

That, your 1st search indicates that it is very much likely that The Jackson's Family Hotel was established in Jubbulpore sometime in the 3rd quarter of the 19th century i.e., around 1875-1880 C.E.
That, your 2nd search actually references The Royal Hotel and Jabalpur at different locations and in different contexts and, therefore, do not construe The Royal Hotel AT Jabalpur. Moreover, even within Jabalpur, references are made to the Building, as in an address, which exists even today.
That, since Jabalpur was spelt Jubbulpore prior to 1950 C.E., your search would have yielded grossly different results had you searched for the keyword Jubbulpore combined with The Royal Hotel.
That, the records on British-India held in London UK, particularly in the British Library (http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/onlineex/apac/photocoll/j/019pho000000394u00072000.html) and elsewhere, confirm that The Royal Hotel was very much up-and-running in Jubbulpore in 1860 C.E. which clearly indicates that it must have been established sometime around mid-19th century i.e., around 1850-1855 C.E. which was at least 25-30 years ahead of The Jackson's Family Hotel.
That, the very fact that banker-merchant Seth Gokuldas's (1939-1908 C.E.) grandchildrens' wedding-parties were organized at The Royal Hotel (http://wikimapia.org/11508861/ROYAL-HOTEL-BUILDING) confirms that it was fully operational at least up until the first quarter of the 20th century C.E. which clearly means that The Jackson's Family Hotel and The Royal Hotel coexisted temporally and may not have had anything to do with each other.
That, therefore, there is no question of The Jackson's Family Hotel preceeding The Royal Hotel. On the contrary, it was the other way round.
That, hence, The Jackson's Family Hotel and The Royal Hotel are conclusively two distinct entities and should not be confused with one another, the latter being of highly significant historical value since the then King-Emperor stayed there.

Untold Unfold (talk) 19:19, 13 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Please allow me to clarify.

The old building (described as looking like a wedding cake), the the one shown in the old photograph, was the one called Jackson's Family Hotel. The same building became a residence of Rajkumari Bai. When they lost the building, the same became a hotel called the Royal Hotel. Thus it is the same building.

As you will note there is no mention of an establishment named Royal Hotel before the Gokuldas family (BTW, are you affiliated?) lost the building. It probably came into existence around 1947 or so. Am I mistaken?

See "Royal hotel" Jubbulpore Note the 1947 book.

Malaiya (talk) 20:34, 13 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Incidentally you will notice that I created the article Seth Govind Das. I hope to expand it some time.Malaiya (talk) 20:38, 13 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Let me share some specific references

You can search using the combinations:

"Jackson's Family Hotel" Jubbulpore
"Royal Hotel" Jubbulpore
"Jackson's Hotel" Jubbulpore

You will find that there was no Royal Hotel in Jubbalpore until 1947, only Jackson's Family Hotel (1979-1982) and jackson's Hotel (1892-). See

1880

Only one Jabalpur hotel mentioned: Jackson's Family Hotel

1881

Only one Jabalpur hotel mentioned: Jackson's Family Hotel

1881

Only one Jabalpur hotel mentioned: Jackson's Family Hotel

1882

Only one Jabalpur hotel mentioned: Jackson's Family Hotel

1892

Several Royal Hotels but none at Jubbulpore, Jubbulpore. — Jackson's Hotel

1892

Several Royal Hotels but none at Jubbulpore, Jubbulpore. — Jackson's Hotel

1892

Several Royal Hotels but none at Jubbulpore, Jubbulpore. — Jackson's Hotel

1898

Several Royal Hotels but none at Jubbulpore Jubbulpore— Jackson's Hotel

1903

Royal Hotel at Lucknow but not at Jubbulpore, Jubbulpore. — Jackson's Hotel

1947

Hotels :- (1) Cecil Hotel, (2) Royal Hotel, (3) Modern Hotel, (4) Pagoda Hotel, (5) Jackson's Hotel. ... Clubs:- (1) Narbada Club, (2) Jubbulpore Club, (3) Phoenix Club, (4) Gun Carriage Factory Club, (5) Catholic Gymkhana Club, (6) Parsi Club

Regards. Malaiya (talk) 01:51, 14 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Convincing arguments to justify your find. Any thought/note on the Jackson's family?

There is probably only 1 family out there in Jubbulpore with several centuries of lineage and revealing unpublished information.

Let me see if more facts on the above are available and/or forthcoming.

My interest stems from my readings on C.P. during several years of my stay in Europe & North America.

Sorry to disappoint you, but I am not affiliated to Seth Gokul Das family in any way.

All the best..

Untold Unfold (talk) 18:28, 15 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your comments.

I want to thank you for solving one mystery. I became interested in Jackson's hotel because as a child I stayed there perhaps 2-3 times during 1950s or early 1960s. It still had the colonial ambiance and some of the waiters (bearers) remembered when the Englishmen ran the hotel. I went back recently to Narmada Jackson's, and could not recognized anything, but they have some old photos in the lobby. I thought I should add a paragraph before everything is forgotten.

I was puzzled by the statement that the hotel was shaped like a wedding cake. That was not the Jackson's hotel I remembered. I searched and found the photo you see here, but the name is not given. I wondered what happended to this interesting building. I was going to ask some of my Jabalpur relatives if they have seen this building. You have answered the question, I am happy the neoclassical wedding cake hotel still exists. I know that some once run-down hotels have been refurbished and are now a classy place to stay (e.g. Raffles in Singapore), perhaps that could happen to what is arguably one of the most interesting buildings in Jabalpur.

You may have noted the articles on Hitkarini Sabha and Robertson College Jabalpur I started. Incidentally I am not directly affiliated with any of them, although I feel personally grateful to the many former teachers and students from Hitkarini; their impact on the society I grew up in, has been remarkable. Same for Seth Govind Das.

I know Seth Govind Das dropped the British title and went back being just Seth. I thought you may be related because you used the term Seth Gokuldas. Anyway, I am fairly sure you have some deep connections with Jabalpur.

Who was the Mr. Jackson? Can you find out something from the family you mentioned? That could be interesting.

Regards, Malaiya (talk) 00:01, 16 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Was he Mr Albert Jackson (or Bert, in short)? I am working on this.

SETH Govind Das's father was DB SETH Jiwan Das and grandfather was RB+DB+RJ SETH Gokul Das.

Interestingly, no British-title was ever dropped (because it wasn't perpetual anyway).

Seth Gokul Das could enjoy the appeasing high British-title for hardly a decade (1898-1908).

Untold Unfold (talk) 19:24, 16 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Wedding Cake design

Here is a reference that explicitly mentions the hotel building.

1887 Then Jackson's Hotel burst into view, built in shape of a wedding-cake, a novel design that I recommend to projectors of honeymoon hotels!