User talk:Uk english

March 2018

Hello. This is a message to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions did not appear constructive and has been reverted. Please take some time to familiarise yourself with our policies and guidelines. You can find information about these at our welcome page which also provides further information about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. If you only meant to make test edits, please use the sandbox for that. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you may leave a message on my talk page. Thank you. –Davey2010^Talk 18:18, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

Usage of the word "shop" over "store

Davey2010

Hello. It has come to my attention that you have mistakenly edited the title of an article on "shops" in the UK to "store." The word "shop" is the preferred term in the UK to refer to a building or part of a building where goods or services are sold. This can be corroborated by checking both the Oxford and Cambridge dictionaries. The use of the word "store" to refer to a place where goods are kept for sale is an American English term. This can be corroborated by looking up the etymology of the word "store"." I was under the impression that British English conventions are followed on articles about the UK. I do not believe US English should be the convention on UK articles.

Hi, Store and shops are commonly used however I do agree for UK shop is more fitting than store, I've since self reverted, Thanks, –Davey2010^Talk 19:42, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

Davey2010

I trust then that you would not object to changing the title of "List of convenience stores in the United Kingdom" to "List of Convenience Shops in the United Kingdom?" Also I have been adding the term "convenience shop" to the main article on convenience shops for British English speaking countries, and I have cited all sources in the talk page of that article.

I object to changing the title to use the word "shop" as it does not make sense. Anchorvale (talk · contribs) 06:38, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

Anchorvale

What do you mean by "does not make sense?" The word "shop" makes perfect sense as far as etymology and dictionary use is concerned. The word "store" has an entirely different definition. This definition was altered by the Americans. UK sites use British English, not American English.

Mass shop/store article edits

@Uk english: You're going to run into all sorts of problems if you try and make mass changes, which are actually rather contentious, without ascertaining opinions on the matter. Your own opinion, rightly or wrongly, does not offer you the facility to undertake the changes you have without other editors having a chance to discuss and a consenus being reached. I suggest you cease this and seek to discuss the matter more appropriately. Bungle ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:49, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

@Bungle:Making "mass changes"? As in changing a single word with a different meaning to the appropriate word used in British dictionaries and corroborated by etymology? That's an opinion, and it's actually contentious? Most UK articles here on Wikipedia have the "Use British English" requirement at the top of the source page. I'm simply obeying this and editing the articles to fit British vocabulary. Why would consensus be necessary if this is a matter of country-specific vocabulary? The fact that "shop" is used in place of "store" in British vocabulary is easily corroborated through online dictionaries such as the Oxford Living Dictionaries and the Cambridge Online Dictionary, as well as the Online Etymology Dictionary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Uk english (talk • contribs) 14:28, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

I didn't say your view on this is wrong per se, but that simply it would need some sort of agreement. Yes, "mass" changes to a quantity of articles constitutes as much, not just the extent of the edit itself. If you actually set out a rationale at WP:RFC as suggested by Davey2010 (talk · contribs), then you can invite opinions, likeminded or otherwise. I take your point, to a certain extent, that "store" is more Americanised, though it does seem more accepted to consider a larger retail outlet a store these days (and that is my opinion). The set vocab used in the articles has been that way for a long time, so a desire to make a change to that, however trivial you may consider it (or however correct you deem), is always best to be discussed. There may be other viewpoints you hadn't considered, whereas you may be vindicated by majority and be free to continue just by doing so. Bungle ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:49, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

@Bungle: If the dictionary definitions and citations in the etymology dictionary don't suffice, I'd be happy to request for comments, but with the caveat that comments from new Wikipedia accounts are not accepted. Surely you realise that Wikipedia being a site open to registrations could by itself affect the votes for or against it? Any number of accounts could be created by somebody who wishes to fix the outcome of the discussion, and that will paint a very biased picture of the voting tally. If you agree with a certain threshold being placed on account age to eliminate the possibility of fixing, I will happily request for comments in these articles. Otherwise,you will have to excuse me as I create new articles on the same subject with the proper vocabulary and sentence structures if my edits aren't accepted on the existing articles as I personally cannot stand foreign vocabulary being used in place of proper English.

Well as Davey2010 has conceded their expressed concern and the stores have been reverted back to "shop", then the request to discuss further is perhaps less pressing. For what it's worth, i'd have taken a sympathetic stance to what you were working towards, though typically these things would be discussed in some manner before pressing ahead, especially if altering a long-term status-quo. I thank you though for replying and discussing here, albeit not quite what I had in mind, before continuing. Bungle ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:17, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

@Bungle: Please accept my apologies for the late reply. I was rather occupied in the past week and din't have much time to spare for Wikipedia. You're very much welcome, and I have to thank you in return for understanding my position. I have no intention of vandalising these articles and I apologise if it looked like that was my intention. Your point is taken and I'll remember to leave a message on the talk page of articles I edit in the future. Good day!

+1 - You really need to seek consensus for all these changes, The time you change "store" to "shop" I'll be left with no choice but to go to WP:ANI and potentially have you blocked so your best bet is to go to the talkpages and maybe start WP:RFCs, Consider this a final warning, Thanks, –Davey2010^Talk 13:53, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

@Davey2010: Haven't I already discussed the use of "shop" in place of "store" with you? The fact that "store" is used in place of "shop" is evident through any online British dictionary, and the etymology dictionary. Most UK articles here on Wikipedia have the "Use British English" requirement at the top of the source page. I'm simply obeying this and editing the articles to fit British vocabulary. It's ironic that American vocabulary such as "variety store" or "convenience store" is used in place of the actual word we have had for centuries. I would think a 2-second Google search could corroborate the fact that shop is used in place of the American bastardisation of "store" for the uninitiated. What would be the purpose of discussing this? Also how do you establish if there's a consensus, since anybody can create multiple accounts to swing the votes one way or another on this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Uk english (talk • contribs) 14:28, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

Store and shop are both used .... You wouldn't call these [1][2][3] shops would you ? .... They're stores..... But regardless of what is and isn't the correct terminology you should still be seeking consensus instead of mass-changing everything, You're more than welcome to start an RFC and get opinions from all sorts of editors...., Thanks, –Davey2010^Talk 14:54, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

@Davey2010:I'll happily concede my point if those are department stores, but the relevant articles do not point out that these are department stores, and neither does the website of these shops. It's worth noting that even a department store is essentially a shop by definition. A store is a place where a squirrel keeps his nuts. There's a reason one goes "shopping" and not "storing" at these places. Nevertheless, moving on to the point, if you insist on a consensus, I have to insist on a threshold being placed on account age. I cannot accept comments from brand-new accounts as the possibility of fixing the outcome of the discussion through the use of multiple accounts is very likely on an open site like this. I suggest something like only comments from 2+ year old accounts being recognised as genuine comments. If you do not accept a threshold, and do not accept my edits to the original articles, you will have to excuse me as I create new articles with proper English vocabulary usage on the same subject, as I find the "use British English" comments on these existing articles to be laughable and hypocritical. Thanks.

Hi, The categories have all since been moved back, My understanding of it is that the bigger shops are stores and the smaller ones are shops .... but having done some research I'm apparently wrong on that .... Anyway you're more than welcome to rechange the articles, Sorry for the shit show. –Davey2010^Talk 17:01, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

@Davey2010:Apologies for the late reply, I was rather busy in the past week and didn't have time for Wikipedia. I'm pleased to hear the outcome. I trust we have an understanding then, and you wouldn't object to a minor change on the existing articles. For what it's worth, I do not plan to make this change on articles about department stores because the original etymology of that phrase is rather unclear and Wikipedia's article on department stores seems to suggest that it originated from the UK. We certainly never called it "department shops", so there's that. Thank you for your time.

Just one additional things, don't make a change where someone else is being quoted as you did with this edit to Wilko (retailer). If the Chester Chronicle used store in a headline then we are obligated to accurately reproduce the headline, not change it because we don't think is was incorrect usage. Nthep (talk) 19:19, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

@Nthep:Your point is noted, and I apologise for any erroneous misquotes I have made in my edits.

Help me!

Please help me with...

Uk english (talk) 02:23, 10 April 2018 (UTC) Hello. I wish to request speedy deletion for an article I erroneously created. How can I do this?

If you're the only one who has made significant edits to the article, tag it with {{db-g7}}. This will tag it for deletion under speedy criterion G7 (page's only contributor requests deletion). —Jeremy v^_^v ^Bori! 03:06, 10 April 2018 (UTC)