User talk:Tubantia

Hi Tubantia, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thanks for your contributions to the coolest online encyclopedia I know of =). I sure hope you stick around; we're always in need of more people to create new articles and improve the ones we already have. You'll probably find it easiest to start with a tutorial of how the wikipedia works, and you can test stuff for yourself in the sandbox. When you're contributing, you'll probably find the manual of style to be helpful, and you'll also want to remember a couple important guidelines. First, write from a neutral point of view, second, be bold in editing pages, and third, use wikiquette. Those are probably the most important ones, and you can take a look at some others at the policies and guidelines page. You might also be interested in how to write a great article and possibly adding some images to your articles.

Be sure to get involved in the community – you can contact me at my talk page if you have any questions, and you can check out the village pump, where lots of wikipedians hang out and discuss things. If you're looking for something to do, check out the community portal. And whenever you ask a question or post something on a talk page, be sure to sign your name by typing ~~~~.

Again, welcome! It's great to have you. Happy editing! --Spangineer (háblame) June 29, 2005 14:59 (UTC)

replied

heya, replied to your message on my talk page. take care. Taalo 19:09, 31 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re. User talk:Francis Schonken/Dutch#Sorteren van achternamen

No vote/poll - m:polling is evil;
Difference between Netherlands and Flanders (in Belgium "Paul de Leeuw" would be under "De Leeuw, Paul" in a phone book). See prior discussion at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (people)#Naming convention for Dutchmen;
English Wikipedia is, nou ja, for people who speak English. They don't need to know about the "funny rules" applicable in diverse countries. And if "Van Basten" is in a category relating to Italian football, what rules to apply? Italian rules? Dutch rules?... English rules!
Note that there are some exceptions in English (Beethoven, Montesquieu,... - see Wikipedia:Categorisation of people#Ordering names in a category) but apart from nobility ("Salisbury"), there seems not to be much of a system.
Note that in English I contend it would be better to write "Paul De Leeuw" - uncapitalising the first letter of the last name is a rule that applies in Dutch, not afaik a rule that applies in English. In English it would be OK to write "Mathilde d'Udekem d'Acoz", but that's again nobility (and if not following English rules, it's following French rules... which is not the same as importing Dutch rules in English).

Hope to have clarified a bit. --Francis Schonken 21:10, 12 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thx

Thanks for answering m'n vraag on Twente. Cheers 82.93.133.130 15:33, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Colayer Platform

See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Colayer Platform. Anthony Appleyard 13:09, 25 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Can't say enough on this one to make a good opinion on keeping or deleting the article, I'm afraid. I do not have enough knowledge on computers, software, etc. Tubantia 13:15, 25 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

discussion

You say "By the way most Italian names in South Tyrol are inventions of Ettore Tolomei from the 20th century." Can you list a few of these "most names"? The real inventions I know of are in the North East tip of BZ. The origins of most of the names in BZ are actually of Latin/Ladin/Roman/Italic, and I can actually give you many examples. The name South Tyrol itself is a 20th century invented name to represent this province. Südtirol and Südtiroler used to mean the land and people of Southern Tirol, from around Merano and Bolzano, down to Lake Garda. Also, as far as erasing names, you may want to speak with the mayor of Marlengo-Marling who has had the Italic-origin name erased from the town train station. Icsunonove (talk) 03:00, 26 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The list of Ettore Tolomei does not only contain the names of the major geographic terms, but also of a lot of minor ones, which have mostly just been translated from German into Italian. Of course, part of the Italian names are derivatives of Latin or Ladin, but you can hardly deny that Croda delle Cornacchie is a literally translation of the mountain called Grawand (previously Krahwand) in German. And the Prontuario dei nomi locali dell'Alto Adige contains a lot more of that kind of translations. I cannot imagine that the Roman ancestors already had names for all the mountains over there. "Most" would be exaggerated, but some of the people would like to diminish the number to "almost none", which is not true either. The truth is in between. Tubantia (talk) 13:02, 26 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you. I don't like a German nationalistic view that says, "all/most of the names are invented and are originally German", nor would I agree with an Italian nationalistic view that says "almost none were invented". I fear however that there is a new generation that uses the name Tolomei to justify "us against them", and it is as usual based on much ignorance. You even see the results on Wikipedia. :( Anyway, with regard to that mountain, I'm not so familiar with. Was the name Croda delle Cornacchie derived via Tolomei? I'm curious what it is called in Ladin, or if there was even a Latin/Roman name for it. By the way, I've also seen a bit of the Prontuario, but it is difficult for me to understand which names are "inventions" and which are simply being documented. Icsunonove (talk) 21:54, 26 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The mountain Grawand has been called Krahwand in the past, meaning literally: wall of the crows. Croda is the Italians word for wall, cornacchie means crows (as you would already know, as you speak Italian). Of course, I would also like to know whether there was a Latin name for it (Ladin probably not, because it lies in the main ridge of the Ötztal Alps near the Austrian border, an area in which no Ladin is spoken "originally"), but I cannot believe that all mountains, fields, glaciers etc. already were named by Romans. And moreover: for a long time, no Italian- or Ladinspeaking people lived in the main part of the South-Tyrolean region. I cannot believe that all these Italian names just derived from Latin words, as those would probably would not all have survived in the region throughout the centuries. I believe that Ettore Tolomei has used historiographic sources as prove for part of the names, but most of the field and mountain names will not have been written down in the Roman/Ladin period of South Tyrol. So he must have translated a lot. But I am not familiar with the sources he used for creating the list, and I am afraid he has not written down the sources he used either. This list shows the original Prontuario, by the way. I know that a lot of German names have already evolved into other ones since then, just like the Krahwand/Grawand change. Tubantia (talk) 08:56, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Prominence sources

Hi Tubantia, for the bigger (>500 m) prominences I've been using lists created by prominence experts like Jonathan de Ferranti and Eberhard Jurgalski (one of them is at http://www.peaklist.org/lists.html). For the lesser prominences I deduced them from the austria-online maps and (especially for the mountains too far south of the border), I googled the height of the lowest connecting saddles/passes (if nameless, sometimes from descriptions of ascents to the peaks). Summitpost and the relief maps of google earth were a help to get me started. Phew,, it was a bit of work indeed. I'm entering the Zillertaler and Venediger Alps next, but probably stop there. Afasmit (talk) 21:33, 17 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

PS Francis Schonken lost his/her battle a long time ago with regard to the name sorting; I hope my arguments based on the rules of using native rather than Americanized standards adhered to by the Chicago Manual of Style and the Library of Congress (and any sensible encyclopedia) contributed to that. Afasmit (talk)

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