User talk:Tim Parenti/Archives/2008

Pitt WikiProject

As a current or past contributor to a Pitt-related article, I thought I'd let you know about WikiProject University of Pittsburgh, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of the University of Pittsburgh and the Pitt Panthers. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks and related articles. Thanks! CrazyPaco (talk) 07:55, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Info on Pitt music

Hi Tjtrumpet, I've pretty much come to the limits of my ability to research Pitt music by means of the internet. Is there any info you could fill in. Particularly, what are the actual current lyrics of the Panther Song? There was some changes ascribed in April that did not match what was printed in the Pitt News (ref 12). Also, what is the date of origination of the Pitt Victory Song or any other missing information pertaining to other Pitt songs? thanks and HTP! CrazyPaco (talk) 05:12, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Fortunately, the lyrics to the fight songs are some of the things that every member of the University of Pittsburgh Varsity Marching Band is supposed to learn before they leave their first band camp. The changes made by 71.61.182.114 on 24 April 2008 to the Panther Song were actually much closer to current than the lyrics currently shown. The lyrics currently taught to incoming band freshmen are as follows:

Old Pittsburgh's Glory

Won't be trampled down today by any foe, foe, foe!

For Pittsburgh's Glory,

We'll fight you square, we'll play you fair at any game you know.

And when the sun sets,

You'll hear our good old dong of victory...

Oh, when the Panther screams, you know the battle's just begun –

And if you don't look out, he'll surely get you on the run

For Pittsburgh's Glory,

And the honor of our University!

Differences from 71.61.182.114's version (apart from a bit of grammar) are shown above in boldface.

I should also mention that the fifth and sixth lines of the chorus of Hail to Pitt itself are taught as,

Hoop-hurray! Hoop-hurray for dear old U-N-I,

We'll give her a grand old Alleghenee-genac-genac-genac!

where "U-N-I" are sung as three distinct letters of the alphabet, not to be confused with the phrase "you and I." If you need a source, it's on the Pitt Band songs page and has been since well before I took over (15 April 2008).

I do know the Pitt Men's Glee Club sings Hail to Pitt with the more traditional "Uni," but apparently going as far back as 1938, we find the more generic,

Hoop-hurray! Hoop-hurray for University,

As far as the Pitt Victory Song goes, the 1938 printing I have attributes the words to G. Norman Reis (1916) and Louis M. Fushan (1923), as well as the music to Dr. Benjamin Levant (1919). As far as the actual year in which the song was written, I do not know.

My copy of the Alma Mater (undated) doesn't repeat the first verse as one of your sources does, but I don't think that that matters quite so much, as it should be noted that hardly anyone ever learns the second and third verses (except sometimes the band's Bass section). I just happen to know all three by heart as well.

I must confess, though, that I've never heard any of the seldom-heard Pitt songs before. I do remember hearing, though, from the band director, Jack R. Anderson, that at one point, Pitt had about ten different fight songs (probably most of these), which were then pared down to two, and the Panther Song was added back on later. Personally, I think three is a much more manageable number anyway.

I hope I was helpful and thorough enough for you. Please, feel free to hit up my talk page any time if I can be of more assistance or try to dig up a few sources.

--Tim P (talk) 16:47, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! That is great info! I wanted those articles to reflect both the accurate modern versions and the historical versions so I'm going to update those articles as appropriate when I get a chance.CrazyPaco (talk) 17:59, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Do you have a ref for the current Panther Song lyrics? Even a non-internet publication or song-book/pamphlet that could be cited using Wikipedia:Citation templates. I've already corrected the lyrics, but it would be good to have a cited source in case discrepancies come up from future editors.CrazyPaco (talk) 20:26, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Sadly, I don't have an authoritative reference right now. However, I can talk to Dr. Anderson in August and see what I can get. --Tim P (talk) 21:37, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for checking. I'm referencing this talk page discussion in the mean time. Thank you for your help and contributions. I hope what I have done previously with the pages associated with Pitt music does them justice, as I don't have any music background or with any of the organizations. I've tried to fill in as much historical info as possible to keep them safely within WP:Notability. I also think there was a dearth of organized, assembled and easily accessible historical information on Pitt in general (and had gotten tired of hearing such things as "why did Pitt copy the German National Anthem?"). Please feel free to join WP:PITT, as you have more than already sufficiently contributed. And also please feel free to help flush out any of the music/ Pitt Band page/section pages. Hopefully, they not only serve as good reference material, but also good promotional material for the band, etc. I had to construct with information pretty much limited to internet accessible data...and that is typically historical in nature, so they could probably use more current information (and pictures) on those pages. Thanks again! HTP. CrazyPaco (talk) 21:57, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Ok, a couple of more things to help solidify references in order to tie things up as solidly as possible. I've incorporated all the changes noted in this discussion across the various articles. As of now, I have this talk page referenced for the some of the changes incorporated including the three listed below. Do you have better original source material that can be referenced (printed or recorded material) for these following statements. If not, I'll just leave things as is. Thanks in advance either way. CrazyPaco (talk) 23:20, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

1) the Pitt Men's Glee Club sings Hail to Pitt with the more traditional "Uni" (maybe a glee club recording?)

2) 1938 Hail to Pitt printing with lyrics of Hoop-hurray! Hoop-hurray for University, (vintage song book perhaps?)

3) Printing of Alma Mater (undated) that doesn't repeat the first verse (any source material? Pitt distribution, song book?)

In January 2007, someone asked me to get sheet music for some of the fight songs, so I asked Jack for photocopies, and he gave me the following, which I then scanned and have just now uploaded to my webspace: Hail to Pitt, Pitt Victory Song, and Pitt Alma Mater (files since removed). I have no idea exactly which books these come from; however, I certainly could ask sometime this fall. You are welcome to peruse the printer's information on the documents to your needs. If (for references' sake) you feel it would be appropriate, I could (with Jack's permission) post these files to pittband.com (as our website should have them anyway). In any case, I want to steer clear of even the appearance of a WP:COPY or WP:COI violation, no matter how minor the topic. I'm willing to take the time to have this done right. --Tim P (talk) 03:50, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Those are interesting. Actually, the order of "rough" and "tough" are reversed in the Victory Song. The more printings I see of these songs, the more slight variations there are. Makes me wonder what the earliest original version was. If you ever find out the name of the source music book, we could add that as a reference for those variations, but because things on wikipedia are sometimes patrolled very stringently, I think it is inviting problems by directing citing the items in your webspace for the reasons you suggest. Thanks though, I saved copies of those for myself if you feel you don't want to leave the links here. Hopefully the Wikipedia articles are as precise and accurate as possible under the circumstances. CrazyPaco (talk) 04:24, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

For clarity's sake, I didn't suggest citing them from my webspace, but rather suggested getting the proper okays and permissions to put them in the official Pitt Band webspace. After all, shouldn't the Band's site have something like that anyway? But I do acknowledge that that's probably borderline WP:COI violation, so I won't go there. That's enough slightly-off-topic discussion on this talk page. Hope the files were helpful, and let me know if I can help any more! --Tim P (talk) 04:33, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

New question, Trees Hall

Hi TJ, I just wrote an article for Trees Hall. Pitt's online tour information indicates that Trees has 5 basketball courts. I think they took 2 of them out to make the Gymnastics Training Center on the far end of the existing courts, but I can't remember from my days at Pitt whether there were additional courts on the second floor. This is really minutia, but do you know how many basketball courts currently exist in Trees these days? CrazyPaco (talk) 02:45, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Sadly, I don't know. My time in Trees is limited to traveling back and forth for band practice, and not much else. --Tim P (talk) 04:36, 27 July 2008 (UTC)