User talk:Thiotrix

Welcome

Welcome!

Hello, Thiotrix, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome! Aboutmovies (talk) 08:35, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Tumbleweed

Hi,

Thanks for your correction. I added the link to tumbleweed from Salsola because the former says "several annual species of Salsola (family Amaranthaceae) that form tumbleweeds". It seems like both of those articles need corrections. It would also be nice if Salsola and Kali (plant) mentioned something about this apparent reclassification, since both names seem to still be in use. Any sources or details you might be able to point out would be helpful. Thanks! -- Beland (talk) 19:20, 16 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, I guess Salsola already does mention the exclusion, though it doesn't say when it happened, and the referenced web site is down. -- Beland (talk) 19:26, 16 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your notice, that the link to the pdf was broken. I added a new link to an open access of the reference article to Salsola and Kali (plant), and made some notes in the tumbleweed page. I'm planning to write more about the recent classification of Chenopodiaceae/Amaranthaceae during the next weeks, especially about the new genera. Best regards --Thiotrix (talk) 20:30, 16 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thismia rodwayi

Hello!
I've just finished translating this article (Thismia rodwayi) from French to English, and I'd like to have it proofread. But the thing is, I'm not really used to how things are done here on en.WP.
I've made a request for peer review, but I don't actually know if that was the right move (since other requests were about reviewing article for FA or GA, and mine is only a proofreading…).
Anyway, I saw you used my picture for the Thismia article, and I thought you could be interested in reading and correcting Thismia rodwayi.
Cheers, Thouny(talk), on 16:32, 12 June 2014 (UTC) [reply]

Hello Thouny,

of course I will read your article. But as I am a writer for german wikipedia, en.WP may need different formalities, and of course a look of a native speaker. You may ask for additional review on page Wikipedia:WikiProject Plants/New articles. Cheers, --Thiotrix (talk) 07:07, 13 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks a lot! I'll ask for a review on the WProject Plants :)

Cheers, Thouny(talk), on 07:19, 13 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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A barnstar for you!

	The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
	Your ongoing effort to plants is impressive and the number of languages you understand is just as impressive! biostone (talk) 02:06, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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1894 botanical taxon description translated from German to English

Thiotrix, thank you for your offer to do this translation! The entry is in Siebert & Voss Vilmorin’s Blumengärtnerei. Beschreibung, Kultur und Verwendung des gesamten Pflanzenmaterials für deutsche Gärten. Page 467, entry 1656, Aster diffusus Ait. BHL. —Eewilson (talk) 11:11, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Here is the translation:

"1656. Aster diffusus Ait. (syn. A. pendulus Ait, just with narrower leaves; A. divergens Ait., A. miser Nutt., A. parviflorus Darlingt., Solidago lateriflora L.) Weitschweifige Staudenaster. Northern America.

Perennial plant, 40–150 cm high. Flowering time: September, October. Plant hairy or nearly glabrous; stronger plants broadly and divaricately branched. Leaves mostly broadly-lanceolate (or more broad), with a very narrowed leaf base, at the apex acute or acuminate; lower leaves usually 7–14 cm long, sparsely serrate. Leaves of the flowering branches smaller and integer, some of them longer than the clustered or dispersed flower heads, which are usually single or in bunches along the twigs. Ground leaves oval, with slim petiole. Involucrum campanulate, its leaves obtuse, sometimes slightly apiculate, lineate, shortly green-apexed. Ray flowers small, white, sometimes slightly purple or violet. Disc [flowers] yellow, later becoming purple.

Varieties are: a) horizontalis Desf. pr. sp. (syn. A. recurvatus Willd.), Hängezweigige St., robust, very bushy and extraordinarily rich flowering; flowers white, later rosy, with its disc yellow, later purple. Recommended for [planting in] groups and greater garden beds.

b) thyrsoideus Gray, flowering twigs adscendent, flower heads bunchy-paniculate or spicate-glomerulate, less oriented to one side. f. hirsuticaulis Lindl. pr. sp. and f. bifrons Lindl. pr. sp. are just luxurious plants growing at shady and moist places, more loosely built [= less branched] and higher."

Texts in square brackets are my own additions. Kind regards, --Thiotrix (talk) 12:26, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! Is there a translation for "Weitschweifige Staudenaster" and "Hängezweigige St."? Are these part of the description or vernaculars? —Eewilson (talk) 19:31, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Google translate gives "perennial aster" for Staudenaster; presumably contrasting with the annual aster (Callistephus). One of the meanings for Weitschweifige is diffuse, so it could just represent the practice of producing a species vernacular name by translating the epithet; Google translate gives rambling as the preferred translation, but I suspect that in context it means clump-forming - Symphyotrichum lateriflorum describes the plant as clump-forming, with short rhizomes giving rise to offsets. Hängezweige means "hanging branches", so I guess that Hängezweigige means "with hanging branches", which could be the same based of the epithet recurvatus - anyway in context they do seem to be vernacular names.

I would translate Staudenaster as aster - English commonly uses aster unqualified for plants of Aster sensu lato, while German qualifies it more often. I think that Michaelmas daisy is of too narrow application. A google search finds "diffuse aster" being used in English for this species (also for Centaurea diffusa in Canada), so that would be the translation. English also has "side flowering aster", based on the epithet lateriflora, but I'm not sure how to translate Hängezweigige, other than doing a less literal translation which might mean going with calico aster. Lavateraguy (talk) 20:43, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I struggle with botanical German, and in this case the fraktur would have defeated me (and the OCR is well-mangled). However I can redo the offered translation in more idiomatic English.

Northern America → North America
Perennial plant → perennial (or herbaceous perennial)
with a very narrowed leaf base → base abruptly attenuate (per FNA - I didn't know whether to translate this as long cuneate or abruptly cuneate - but the base can be cordate attenuate would be more accurate, but not necessarily what was intended by Vilmorin), or, base abruptly cuneate
at the apex acute or acuminate → apex acute or acuminate, or, acute or acuminate at the apex
Involucrum campanulate, its leaves obtuse → Involucre campanulate, phyllaries obtuse (if phyllaries is too jargonish then bracts; German Blätter has a broader sense than English leaf)
lineate → linear (per FNA - I was misreading this as lined/striate)
adscendent → ascending (both are used, but the latter is more usual)
integer → entire (meaning margins without teeth)
Ground leaves oval, with slim petiole → Basal leaves oval, with a slender petiole
bunchy-paniculate → bunched-paniculate
luxurious → luxuriant
at shady → in shady
with its disc yellow, later purple → with yellow, later purple, discs

There may be scope for further improvement. The FNA treatment provides context to aid translations. Lavateraguy (talk) 21:35, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wow! Thank you for the elaboration. And thank you to both of you! —Eewilson (talk) 05:31, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Vilmorin’s Blumengärtnerei" uses an old style of German language with unusual wordings. I tried to translate it as near to the original text as possible. The translations of Lavateraguy are correct for the current use in botanical texts. "Weitschweifige Staudenaster" and "Hängezweigige St." are translated "vernacular" names, supposedly created in this book. The wording is outdated, nobody would use these names today. In my opinion "Weitschweifige Staudenaster" refers to the ramification and means "divaricate perennial Aster"; "Hängezweigige St." means "perennial Aster with hanging branches". --Thiotrix (talk) 08:21, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requoting translation for variety thyrsoideus Gray: "flowering twigs adscendent, flower heads bunchy-paniculate or spicate-glomerulate, less oriented to one side. f. hirsuticaulis Lindl. pr. sp. and f. bifrons Lindl. pr. sp. are just luxurious plants growing at shady and moist places, more loosely built [= less branched] and higher."

Does the translation of the last word to "higher" mean literally "taller"?

Also, is the book adding two forms hirsuticaulis and bifrons to the variety thyrsoideus, or treating them as forms of Aster diffusus? It's not clear in the German because there is no defined break (to my eyes) between the forms and the varietal definition. What does "pr. sp." mean? I have not seen that abbreviation before. At the time this was written (1894), hirsuticaulis and bifrons had been varieties of Aster diffusus since 1884 by A.Gray. Prior to that, they were individual species by Lindley (1836). —Eewilson (talk) 14:50, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the plants of the formae are taller. The abbreviation "pr. sp." means "pro species": because Lindl. treated hirsuticaulis and bifrons as species. Vilmorin (or whoever authored this chapter) considers them just as formae. I think, formae of variety thyrsoideus, as there is no line break. --Thiotrix (talk) 18:02, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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