User talk:The Hermes

Hello Friend, I have been witness to your insertions in Serampore College, Andhra Christian Theological College and other affiliated Colleges under Senate of Serampore College (University) about accreditation and its relation vis-a-vis the University Grants Commission.

I wish to bring some points for your information: Serampore College is an individual college under the University of Calcutta. However, Senate of Serampore College is a University incorporated under the Danish Charter and later when Serampore was handed over to the British by the Danes, the Charter was superceded by the Serampore College Act, 1918 (Bengal Act No.IV of 1918).

Senate of Serampore College as a University can accord degrees in any field which it currently exercises only to theological degrees. Further, persons in possession of degrees awarded by it are eligible to pursue further studies in secular fields. For example, Osmania University recognises the degree of Bachelor of Divinity awarded by Senate of Serampore College and one can pursue Master of Arts in that University.

For further information, you may get access to the book "The story of Serampore and its college" [1]]. It also has the Serampore College Act, 1918 appended into it.

For UGC-related information you may access [2]. You may also discuss Senate of Serampore College's status in front of the UGC by writing a letter (if you wish so) to the Chairman of the UGC or to the Registrar of the Senate of Serampore College, Serampore 712 201, District Hooghly, West Bengal.

With best wishes, 59.93.116.145 17:12, 3 January 2007 (UTC)Grbpradeep Pradeep 17:15, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Can you quote the relevant passages from any of these documents to establish your points? It is not I but you who needs to establish your point The Hermes 04:24, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Please refer to page 165 of "The Story of Serampore and its College" [3] which has "The Serampore College Act, 1918" appended to it. I am quoting the paragraphs 1 and 2 of the Preamble to the Act for your information.

Whereas, on the 23rd day of February, 1927, the institution established in Serampore, Bengal, and known as the Serampore College, was incorporated by Royal Charter granted by his late Danish Majesty, King Frederick the Sixth, with the powers and privileges in the said Royal Charter set forth including the power of conferring upon the students of the said College degrees of rank and honour according to their proficiency in science

And whereas by Article VI of the Treaty of Purchase, dated the 22nd February, 1845, transferring Serampore to the British Government, it was provided that the rights and immunities granted to the Serampore College by the said Royal Charter, as translated and contained in the Schedule I to this Act, should not be Interfered With, but should continue In force In the same manner as if they had been obtained by a Charter from the British Government, subject to the general law of British India.

The Charter of Incorporation is found in Schedule I given under the Seal of the King of Denmark in 1827. When the Danish Serampore was handed over to the British, the said Charter of Incorporation was ratified by the Legislature of Bengal (then unified Bengal) in 1918 resulting in The Serampore College Act, 1918.

Pradeep 12:31, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Please do not keep repeating one and the same thing. Please provide documentation about whether the Government of India or UGC has permitted Serampore College to act as a University. Without UGC permission, any institution claiming to be a University is a fake university. UGC has made it clear any number of times. Does this "Serampore Univeristy" has UGC or Government of India recognition or accreditation ??? The Hermes 15:33, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Dear Friend, first of all I would request you to keep the thought of 'fake seminary' away from your mind. It seems to be that you are restricting yourself by blindly ignoring my responses. Keep an open mind for a while. Tell me, how could the Legislature of Bengal pass an Act (Serampore College Act) in 1918 ? Tell me, when did the UGC come into existence ? Were the Legislators of Bengal blind enough to pass an Act that confers upon the Senate the power to confer degrees ?

Friend, I understand that you are righteous. ICFAI is a fake university, Chattisgarh University is a fake university. UGC also gives periodical notices in newspapers advising the public against joining an University that is fake. Then why is not the UGC issuing notices about the Senate of Serampore. If you are that righeous, then why don't you write to the UGC Chairman to issue a newspaper statement treating Senate of Serampore as a fake university ? I have also advised you to write to the UGC Chairman in my much previous response. Why don't you do so ?

Sincerely,Pradeep 06:29, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Kindly do not ask questions. Please furnish answers and proofs. I do not have to write to UGC. Each person who writes for wikipedia should furnish proof. Others can demand proof. They do not have to hunt for it. There are a large number of bogus universities. UGC has made it clear any institution claiming to be a University without without it approval is bogus. Thus your so-called Serampore University is simply bogus. Kindly furnish proof without multiplying questions to me. The Hermes 18:10, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Friend, here is your proof -

1. Government of India - Ministry of Human Resource Development

[4] Chapter XVI - Other Universities - Three Missionaries, Carey, Marshman and Ward started the first Mission college at Serampore in 1818, and 9 years later it received a charter from the King of Denmark empowering it to grant degree.

2. Government of Nagaland - Department of Higher Education [5] (4) Growth of Colleges - There are a total of 18(eighteen) Govt.recognised (permitted) Theological Colleges in Nagaland.

Do let me know if you need more answers. Sincerely,Pradeep 18:34, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

What your refer to is History, not current situation. In democratic India, all universities have to be UGC approved. Thus a quote from history does not show anything. Give evidence that it is approved by UGC without which any institution calling itself a university is fake.

The Nagaland quotation does not have anything to do with the fake "Serampore University" because it is not in Nagaland. The Hermes 06:10, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

---

Hi all

  You people are telling that ICFAI dehradun india. is a fake university? But still people are getting the degrees from this university and they are finding the right job. Please let me know if you have any proof for claiming ICFAI as fake university. Because i am thinking to pursue a distance degree program through ICFAI.

Thanks

Srikanth

ICFAI is the worst university I have ever seen; unfortunately I am a student of it. They don't have any student care department (in fact they have but that doesn't work)their mailboxes are always full with complaints so yours will never reach( failure delivery notice!) They always look to fail students so that they can earn regularly, at the time of placement they turn away. At the time of admission they will give you many promises but not even single will be fulfilled. You will all ways feel trapped!! So beware of this university and their aggressive marketing techniques to motivate you to take admission. PLEASE RUN AWAY!!!!!! It is costliest and toughest and trapping university for any program. Wish you all good luck who are with this university unfortunately. Lots of curse, Ajay —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.123.181.130 (talk) 11:05, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Serampore College

Authority to issue degrees and accreditation

King Frederick VI of Denmark originally granted a Royal Charter giving Serampore College the status of a University to confer degrees. With the later establishment of Calcutta University in 1857 the Arts, Science and Commerce parts of Serampore College were affiliated to the Calcutta University. However Serampore College still today continues to enjoy the privilege of conferring its own degrees in Theology under the power vested by the Charter and Act of Serampore College. It is a private Grant-in-aid Minority College. The College is recognized by the University Grants Commission under Section 2(f) and 12(b) of the UGC Act, 1956.

Hope this helps Brookie :) - a will o' the wisp ! ^(Whisper...) 16:26, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

This does not help. What you say applies ONLY to the non-theology section of the college. The theology section is NOT recognized by the UGC. What is more, the Royal Charters for educational institutions lapsed when 1. India became a sovereign democracy 2. When UGC took University education into its control. The Hermes 06:46, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Your edits are now becoming disruptive - please see the links I added at the end of the Serampore article - which is where the quote about the ability to issue degrees comes from - this is in the pre-amble to the College's offial grading report (which was A) - I presume that they know what they are talking about - even if you don't. Brookie :) - a will o' the wisp ! ^(Whisper...) 07:31, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Do you mean that stating FACTS is disruptive in wikipedia known for open and honest discussion of facts?? Or is it some kind of a veiled threat that you are issuing?? The Hermes 07:39, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

List of unaccredited institutions of higher learning

I hope I don't need to remind you of the 3-revert rule. I really think you should discuss the "clarifying" on the article's talk page. GreenJoe 19:22, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

I very much appreciate your comment. I was careful not to violate the 3-revert rule, and would not do that. However, since each article should be complete in itself (because common readers do not go to the talk pages), essential information should be given in the article itself. USDE and CHEA have clarified it many times that they do not have jurisdiction over institutions outside USA. Thus institutions that are absent in their lists should not automatically be branded as unaccredited. The Hermes (talk) 03:04, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

On my talk page, you say that I am selectively removing some institutions from List of unaccredited institutions of higher learning. In fact, I remove an individual institution only after reviewing the sources cited, determining that the sources do not substantiate the "unaccredited" status (or are insufficient for other reasons), and looking unsuccessfully for another source. Being human, I generally cannot review more than one institution at a time, so I have not simultaneously reviewed all list entries. Apparently you are aware of some other institutions remaining on the list that lack appropriate sourcing. Please do not use this as justification for restoring inadequately sourced entries to the list; instead, please tell the rest of us which institutions you think should be removed. Please do not persist in restoring institutions to the list unless you can supply reliable sources to support their inclusion. All entries on the list currently cite at least one source and the vast majority of the institutions on the list have adequate reference support, so there is no justification for your suggestion of wholesale removing a large fraction of the list. --Orlady (talk) 13:23, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Communication always brings people to consensus on issues. I am happy that you replied back with such a detailed explanation. Now that I understand the way you are working, I will not revert your removals. At the same time, you should also not revert my removals of individual institutions as I am going to do the same thing that you are doing -- review one by by and remove those that do not fulfill the condition.

I could not understand why you removed Allahabad Agricultural University (theology deptt) because I had cited the most reputed Indian newspaper. The Hermes (talk) 12:30, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

The citation you supplied for Allahabad did appear to be an article from the most reputed Indian newspaper, but the website cited belongs to an advocacy organization that would not be considered a reliable source for this type of item. I now find that the original article is available from its source at http://www.indianexpress.com/story/284719.html . However, the article quotes the UGC as saying “The AAI-DU is a deemed university with Agriculture as a chosen field of specialization. The deemed university status was recommended for this institution on the basis of academic assessment covering the UG and PG courses being conducted by the institute at the time of inspection of UGC expert committee. The report of the Committee did not convey any recommendation on the Theological courses.” That makes this man's degree unaccredited, but the institution is accredited.--Orlady (talk) 13:23, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

You might want to write an article about Allahabad Agricultural University, including the information that the institution is accredited but the theological department is not. --Orlady (talk) 13:29, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

I think that is a good suggestion. I will take up the project The Hermes (talk) 08:35, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Affiliations and usefulness

Hi again !

You must have seen the site of the Senate of Serampore College (University)[6].

You also may be knowing that a candidate who is in possession of an engineering or medical degree is useless to pursue the vocation of a Priest. Can you say that engineering and medical degrees are useless in theological circles ? Similarly, theological degrees are useful for Priests.

In spite of seeing the University website, you must be senseless to go on with your statements that the Senate of Serampore College (University) is fake. Have you or any of your family members been a receipient of a degree granted by this University ? I don't understand your "love" to this University. Any problems ?--Pradeep (talk) 10:34, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

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