User talk:TemplarMNE

Average heights

Hello, TemplarMNE. You have new messages at WP:HD.
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After you check the response there, I'd suggest you go to this page. To add the Montenegrin and Serbian entries, copy/paste the format for other countries to add figures for Montenegro and Serbia. Nyttend (talk) 21:44, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much, I succeed! :-) I have one more question: how can I open a new page? I would like to promote the famous scientist from Montenegro! Regards.

Glad to hear it worked! I'd advise you to go to Articles for Creation, where you can write the article in pieces and as slowly as you wish, or as fast as you wish, and you can wait for others to offer comments on how to improve the page before it's publicly visible. Please be careful with promotion, however; conflicts of interest are problematic, and Wikipedia isn't meant to be a place for promoting people. Nyttend backup (talk) 13:10, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Montenegrin average

Well done on finding the document outlining average height in Montenegro. I am interested in whether you know more about this because I read the entire source and there are appear to be a few flaws regarding the so-called "second place" status. If indeed Montenegrins rank second it can only be to Dinaric Alps people and not Dutch for reasons I will explain. It seems the Dinaric study focused on regions of Herzegovina and Dalmatia but in reality, Montenegro lies within the Dinaric Alps so the naming is inaccurate. Even so, the Dutch figure of 1.838 for males is for 21-year olds only whilst a Dutch study on males 20-30 gives them the same figure as Montenegrin males, 1832. But for Montenegrins to have reached this figure they counted persons from 18 right up to 37. You know that the figure could have been higher if they stalled at 36 and began from 20 because the fact is that at 18 many are still growing; whilst at 36 they belong to the next generation up. Unofficial reports are that the 183 average is exclusive to the southern coast, Cetinje and Podgorica with those on the outer ring being taller (eg. northern coast, Berane, Rožaje, Plevlja and Bijelo Polje) with the central/western areas being the extreme tallest with a high 180s average.

All the indications are that the Montenegrin in a fair age range contest must be slighly taller than his Dutch counterpart. What do you think? The Big Hoof! (talk) 19:39, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your email, mostly due to the reason you recognized the that topic nobody researched more than 100 years. It is interesting that Montenegrin were the tallest nation at the beginning of 20th century, while we don't have available data from this time. This is the first study that researched body height in Montenegrin. Regarding your notes, I disagree with the fact that the range is too important, mostly due to the reason the sample include university students and most of them were in the range between 18-22, but some of the subject were older, but not too many of them. Also, the growth stopped in 18-19, and Pineu et al. sistematicly add one 1cm as they measured high school students in their study when they reached the this high score. I agree that the tallest people live in the area of Dinaric Alpes, but this area covers more than one country: Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro, Serbia, Kosovo, Albania and one part of Macedonia, but there are also some other reliefs such as coastal areas, lakes etc. Hence, if we conduc national surveys we cannot reach the exact data as Pineu et al. did.

I realise most students are 18-22, but to have stuck to these and discluded those above can only have produced a higher figure. After all, the Dutch self-estimated figure of 1.832 is purely for 20-30s. Did you say that Pineu added 1cm to produce 1.832 for MNE or were you referring to him doing this with the Dinaric Alps study? I know about the latter but the idea that a Montenegrin average can be less than 1.83 is absurd. You know as well as I do that you can walk for miles in Nikšić when the nation comes out in the evening and hardly see anybody less than 1.83. My height is 1.85cm and I am male and I am definitely BELOW average everywhere I have gone in Montenegro including Bar, certainly feels that way amongst the young but I cannot submit such original research! ;)

As for the very tallest. It has been disputed. Some say Drniš, others say Livno, some think Gacko. Many believe it is the people of the Croatian hinterland (esp. Lika) and over into Bosanska Krajina but in very remote sparse areas. Bosnian Serb president Milorad Dodik must easily be 1.90cm and his origins are reported to be from these parts. But back to the facts, do you think that Montenegrin figure could possibly rise if sticking to 21-22 year olds even if pulled from all over MNE? The Big Hoof! (talk) 09:51, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

I disagree, as the growth stopped when the people are 18 and they cannot be taller later on. This is the methodology accepted through the most of current studies. This means the older subjects can just decrease the average body height, but not increase it at all. Hence, we didn't want to exclude these few subject from the sample. Generally, we have a plan to measure whole population through high schools to check the real body height of Montenegrins (this would be the best sample). I also have an unofficial information that Pineu et al. measured this population and received 183.20cm as an average body height. This is so closed to our estimate.

Regarding your impression from the Montenegrin cities, I am sure you would meet tall people in Zeta, Budva etc. This means that we have to measure national body height as a data which represents real picture of all people from Montenegro. I don't know what is the city where the tallest people live, maybe we should go to measure all people from the place to the place, but I am also not interested to conduct it, I am just interested to measure the average body height of the whole nations and compare it to the other nations. Maybe some further studies will accompanied these goals, but I am not sure will will be able to measure whole population of Dinaric Alps very soon as this would be huge project and it has to be funded by some institution outside of former SFRY and I am not sure they are too interested to do it.

I see what you mean. I am sure though that had we stuck to 21s like the Dutch, or 20-22 and excluded those older, a higher figure would have been reached. No I can't see there being too many 36-year olds but the younger you get, the more there are. Holland has that same figure for 20-30. Mind you, I did think there was about 1cm or so of growth left from 18. I measured 1.83 at 18 and reached 1.85 when I was 20. I see you are involved in the measurements so I look forward to new data, I hope you post it when it comes. The Big Hoof! (talk) 18:24, 3 August 2013 (UTC)