User talk:PBWriter

Welcome to Wikipedia. If you are affiliated with some of the people, places or things you have written about on Wikipedia, you may have a conflict of interest. In keeping with Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy, edits where there is a conflict of interest, or where such a conflict might reasonably be inferred, are strongly discouraged. If you have a conflict of interest, you should avoid or exercise great caution when:

editing or creating articles related to you, your organization, or its competitors, as well as projects and products they are involved with;
participating in deletion discussions about articles related to your organization or its competitors; and
linking to the Wikipedia article or website of your organization in other articles (see Wikipedia:Spam).

Please familiarize yourself with relevant policies and guidelines, especially those pertaining to neutral point of view, verifiability of information, and autobiographies.

For information on how to contribute to Wikipedia when you have a conflict of interest, please see our frequently asked questions for organizations. Thank you. KGasso (talk) 23:12, 18 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Thompson-Nicola Film Commission

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A tag has been placed on Thompson-Nicola Film Commission, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia for multiple reasons. Please see the page to see the reasons. If the page has since been deleted, you can ask me the reasons by leaving a message on my user talk page.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hang on}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion, or "db", tag; if no such tag exists, then the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate and adding a hang-on tag is unnecessary), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. -- Rrburke (talk) 23:15, 18 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Your request for help

I would be pleased to help you, but unfortunately it is considered inappropriate for you to be writing about an organization with which you have a close connection. Please see Wikipedia:Conflict of interest to better understand why this is a problem. -- Rrburke (talk) 23:42, 18 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Your account has been blocked indefinitely from editing Wikipedia because it appears to be mainly intended or used for publicity and/or promotional purposes. Please read the following carefully.

Why can't I edit Wikipedia?

Your account's edits and/or username indicate that it is being used on behalf of a company, group, celebrity or other well-known individual, or organization for purposes of promotion and/or publicity. The edits may have violated one or more of our rules on spamming, which include: adding inappropriate external links, posting advertisements, and using Wikipedia for promotion. Wikipedia has many articles on companies, groups, and organizations, but it is considered inappropriate for such groups to use Wikipedia to write about themselves. In addition, usernames like yours are disallowed under our username policy.

Am I allowed to make these edits if I change my username?

Probably not. See WP:FAQ/Organization for a helpful list of frequently asked questions by people in your position. Also, review the conflict of interest guidance to see the kinds of limitations you would have to obey if you did want to continue editing about your company, group, or organization. If this does not fit in with your goals, then you will not be allowed to edit again. Consider using one of the many websites that allow this instead.

What can I do now?

You are still welcome to write about something other than your company or organization. If you do intend to make useful contributions on some other topic, you must convince a Wikipedia administrator that you mean it. To that end, please do the following:

Add the text {{unblock-spamun|Your proposed new username|Your reason here}} on your user talk page.
Replace the text "Your proposed new username" with a new username you are willing to use. See Special:Listusers to search for available usernames. Your new username will need to meet our username policy.
Replace the text "Your reason here" with your reason to be unblocked. In this reason, you must:

Convince us that you understand the reason for your block and that you will not repeat the edits for which you were blocked.
Describe in general terms the contributions that you intend to make if you are unblocked.

If you believe this block was made in error, please see how to appeal a block.

--Orange Mike | Talk 00:48, 19 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Rebuttal

I am new to editing Wikipedia Rrburke and Orange Mike, so please have patience with me. Although I am employed by the Thompson-Nicola Regional District I do not believe creating a page for the Thompson-Nicola Film Commission should be deleted if the page is neutral and the information unbiased, as determined by a third-party who is willing to do the research. The Film Commission is a non-profit government body created to promote film within the local region, they do not make money. Their website is www.tnrdfilm.com. Some huge films have been produced with their help in the TNFC's jurisdiction, including 2012, The A-Team, An Unfinished Life, Shooter, The Pledge, The Sweet Hereafter and Twilight Saga: Eclipse. These films can not be made within the TNRD without the approval of the TNFC, which is directly tied to the BC Film Commission and the Ministry of Tourism, Culture and the Arts. I hope you reconsider deleting this page, it simply states what the TNFC is, and lists movies that have been shot within its jurisdiction, many of them of serious note.

There are a lot of films which have incorrect or missing information in terms of shooting locations, including all of the ones I listed above. I have inside verifiable knowledge of where these films have been shot, and would like to confirm them through you guys, and put the proper information on their respective pages. For example the movie 2012 was not shot in Vancouver as mentioned under Production. The entire film, other than studio location shots, was filmed in Cache Creek, Ashcroft and Kamloops. This is a huge difference that needs to be corrected. You can verify this information here - http://www.tnrdfilm.com/past-productions?p=2012 —Preceding unsigned comment added by TNRD (talk • contribs)

Hi, Patrick. Believe me, I have all the patience in the world and am more than happy to try to assist you. Wikipedia welcomes your contributions on subjects other than those about which you have a conflict of interest, but there is a widespread antipathy toward the creation and editing of articles by editors with conflicts of interest.

While it's true that an editor with a conflict of interest may nevertheless produce an article that would otherwise meet Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, many Wikipedians feel strongly that a conflicted editor should not create such an article, believing that an article is inherently promotional when it is written by a person with a close connection to the subject, because, irrespective of its content, the article is designed to enhance the prestige and notoriety of the subject by placing information about it on a popular website, namely Wikipedia. Such Wikipedians feel that such actions run counter to the prohibition against using Wikipedia for publicity or promotion.

If you detect errors in an article about which you have a conflict of interest, or if you have suggestions for its improvement, the best approach is to make a suggestion on the article's talk page and leave it to uninvolved editors to decide whether to act on your suggestions.

Finally, I note that your proposed new username still contains the initials of your employer. To assist your request to be unblocked, please consider choosing a new username that doesn't. Stating that you have read and understood Wikipedia:Conflict of interest and agree to abide by its terms, and that you realize that Wikipedia mustn't be used as a vehicle for promotion, would also help greatly. -- Rrburke (talk) 15:20, 19 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This user's request to be unblocked to request a change in username has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without a good reason (see the blocking policy). Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

PBWriter (block log • active blocks • global blocks • autoblocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Requested username:

PatrickTNRD (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Decline reason:

User does not seem to understand the edits were spam/promotion/advertising from a conflict of interest party. — -- Cirt (talk) 09:14, 19 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Rrburke. OK can I change my username to PatrickBlennerhassett? I understand that me creating a page for the Thompson-Nicola Film Commission is inherently biased regardless of the content. However would you be able to create a page about the Thompson-Nicola Film Comission? Then it would be written by an unbiased third party? There are many references online if you simply Google the Thompson-Nicola Film Commission. I'm totally fine with someone else putting up the relevant information they see fit, as this is not a promotional tool, simply an information page for a Commission of note. The TNFC is not suffering from a lack of exposure as you can see by the films that have been shot in the region. Also no one is benefitting from this internally. The Thompson-Nicola Regional District has its own Wikipedia page, and can be used as a reference as well. I just can't see the validity of having a third party upload this information without oversight from someone with proper knowledge of the TNFC, then it could be wrong, like the references to shooting locations for some of the movies I listed in my previous post. As an editor, isn't one of your jobs to do research on subjects of note, and then create pages according to your judgment of its relevancy? If you look online you can see all the information needed about the TNFC, both positive and negative, and create the article yourself as an unbiased third party.

Rrburke. I have reviewed the COI guidelines and would like to point out some notes for my case. I disclosed upfront that I am a employee of the TNRD, which is the government body that funds the Commission, therefor an editor must assume I am trying to do the right thing. Wikipedia users like myself are allowed to write about subjects in which I have a personal connection, if I keep a neutral tone within the article. I believe I did that with the Thompson-Nicola Film Commission page, and if you research the Thompson-Nicola Film Commission one can see exactly what they are about, and welcome any edits from other editors on the page, as is the mandate of Wikipedia. I hope to continue this discussion with you.

Hi again, Patrick. Of course you're entitled to use your real name, but personally I would advise choosing a pseudonym. Please have a look at WP:REALNAME before you reach a final decision. Whatever you choose, please make another request using the Unblock-spamun template -- {{unblock-spamun|Your proposed new username|Your reason here}} -- but do not remove the first request. I would advise you to make clear in the comment field that, as I said above, you have read and understood Wikipedia:Conflict of interest and agree to abide by its terms, and that you realize that Wikipedia mustn't be used as a vehicle for promotion.

While it's true that conflict-of-interest editing isn't wholly forbidden (Wikipedia does not have firm rules), the only kinds of edits widely considered acceptable for users with a conflict are those set out at Wikipedia:Conflict of interest#Editors who may have a conflict of interest. Substantive edits made unilaterally to articles related to your conflict are likely to meet strong objections from other editors. The creation of an article on a subject connected to your conflict is especially controversial. Adding external links to the website of an organization you are affiliated with risks being interpreted as attempting to use the encyclopedia for promotion (please see Wikipedia:External links#Advertising and conflicts of interest).

Here are a couple of other useful links:

-- Rrburke (talk) 02:10, 20 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Rrburke. Ok I fear we're getting away from the point, which is a page about the Thompson-Nicola Film Commission. The entity has merit, and deserves a small un-biased, third party write-up, obviously not from me, but someone. Two senteces tops, I've looked at other film commissions around the same size and structure of the TNFC, and they have short write-ups, and actually a few smaller than the TNFC have quite long write-ups.

Can you establish that the subject meets Wikipedia's notability guidelines, Wikipedia:Notability and Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies)? The principal test is what's known as the general notability guideline. -- Rrburke (talk) 01:53, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Rrburke. Ok I would like to change my name to PBWriter - --

{{unblock-spamun|PBWriter|Previous name TNRD was denied due to conflict of interest}} --

-~~Unblock request is on hold awaiting comment from blocking admin. Beeblebrox (talk) 02:18, 23 October 2010 (UTC)~~ see below. Beeblebrox (talk) 18:09, 25 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Rrburke. Thank you for continuing with this open dialogue. I have reviewed Wikipedia’s Notability Standards, and believe the Thompson-Nicola Film Commission deserves a short page about it. On the TNFC’s website is a link to their 2009-2011 Strategic Plan - http://www.tnrdfilm.com/files/documents/pdf/2009-2010-strategic-plan.pdf . This is a government cleared document, verified by the TNRD. Although this is not third-party, it is a reputable source for information on the TNFC. The TNFC has verifiable third-party write-ups on it, including IMDB (http://www.imdb.com/company/co0085555/) where it is directly credited on the filmography for production services of 22 films and television shows, including The A-Team, The Andromeda Strain and An Unfinished Life, all of which were completely shot within the Thompson-Nicola Regional District, according to IMDB. The TNFC is listed on Kemps Film and Television – a global search engine for production services – at (http://www.kftv.com/company-22224.html). The TNFC is part of the British Columbia Film Commission, which is a government body funded by the provincial Ministry Tourism, Culture and the Arts – http://www.bcfilmcommission.com/about_us/industry_contacts/main81/bcfc_contacts.php?category=12 . The TNFC recently attended the Association of Film Commissioners International as an official member (http://www.afci.org/cine_attendees.htm). The TNFC is listed in the Reel West Productions Digest - http://www.reelwest.com/digest/locations.htm The TNFC was written about in a Kamloops newspaper (Kamloops This Week, published by Black Press Ltd., which is a legitimate news source) celebrating its 10-year anniversary - http://www.bclocalnews.com/bc_thompson_nicola/kamloopsthisweek/entertainment/96069984.html The TNFC is mentioned secondarily in a news article at http://www.tru.ca/news/past05nov8/stories05nov8/film.html The TNFC is part of the Commercial Production Association of Western Canada - http://www.cpawc.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=18&Itemid=22 Another article from a legitimate news source which refers to the TNFC - http://www.merrittnews.net/article/20100923/MERRITT0501/100929996/-1/merritt/swiss-director-looking-for-local-performers The TNFC is cited as a reference on a Wikipedia page about the movie Bird on a Wire, and is verified properly - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bird_on_a_Wire_(film)#cite_ref-0 Also if you Google “Thompson-Nicola Film Commission” you get 480 separate page results. On the TNFC’s website, they have a write-up of the funding tree for the TNFC, which although it is on their website, appears to read as completely unbiased - http://www.tnrdfilm.com/resources# The TNFC also lists past productions, using movie stills and posters which have been cleared by each production company - http://www.tnrdfilm.com/past-productions

A few items here:

Company's own website - not 3rd party, and not a source
IMDB - user editable, not a reliable source
Being listed in a services directory - not reliable
Being cited in an article does not equal notable

You have not yet addressed WP:COI, and from all of the above it is easy to deduce that you intend to continue to try and create the article. As such, I'm not willing to unblock for any reason. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 06:04, 22 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Rrburke and now Bwilkins. I have addressed WP:COI, you can write an article you have a personal connection to if the article is neutral. The article I wrote about the Thompson-Nicola Regional District was two sentences, and in no way promoted the Thompson-Nicola Regional District. Here's what the article should say:

The Thompson-Nicola Film Commission is a full-time, full-service commission that represents the Thompson-Nicola Regional District. The City of Kamloops is the hub of the Thompson-Nicola Regional District. Vancouver and the BC Film Commission are a three - 3.5 hour drive on a divided highway or a 45 minute flight from the Thompson-Nicola region. Deserts, grasslands, rolling hills, rugged mountains, forests, small towns and hundreds of ranges typify the arid region.

Someone please tell me how this is so inherently unbiased and wrong that it cannot appear on Wikipedia?

A note about the IMDB reference, isn't Wikipedia the same thing? User editable...

There is an article on Film Commissions in general that has no references whatsoever, and the information within it is basically a listing promotional page for the film commissions at the end of the article. How is this page up then?

I've been answering your questions, why can't someone start answering mine?

I can answer some of that. Yes, Wikipedia is user editable just like IMDB. Odd as it sounds, Wikipedia itself is not considered a reliable source for another Wikipedia article. I have looked at the main article on film commissions, and you are correct that it is rife with problems. At this moment there are 3,448,062 articles on Wikipedia, and only a few thousand active editors who actually work with content, so sometimes an article like this slips through. I have already begun editing it to fix some of these problems. The article draft you have presented above is by no means the worst thing I have ever seen posted on Wikipedia, but it seems this commission has not received significant attention from reliable sources. This is the reason it is not acceptable. I've been through Kamploops myself, it is an unusaul area, one doesn't expect to see desert so far north, but until the commission itself manages to get coverage in multiple sources that are entirely independent from it and have a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy it will not be an acceptable subject for a Wikipedia article, regardless of whether other flawed articles also exist. Now that we have established this, is there any other topic you would be interested in writing about? If you have interests other than this one article your latest name suggestion seems fine and you could probably be unblocked if you agree not to attempt to repost an article on the TNRD until it undeniably meets our minimum standards for an article. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:44, 22 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Thompson-Nicola Film Commission Potential Page

Beeblebrox, Rrburke. I would love to be reinstated under the name PBWriter. The articles that I would edit would be simple facts on shooting locations for some of the films that have been shot in communities within the TNRD. The A-Team, An Unfinished Life, 2012, and a host of others, were all shot in the TNRD, under the guidance of the Film Commission. I know this for a fact, and can verify it through the TNFC and third-party sources on the internet. That is all I would like to change if named an editor.

However I would still like to see a small write-up on the TNFC, because I do think it is a film commission of note for the very reason that you pointed out. The TNRD has one of the farthest north arid desert regions in the world, thus making the climate perfect for shooting desert scenes, without the negative aspects - ie. intense daily heat. It's also a lure for American and International productions because of cheap shooting costs which stretch across Canada. The TNFC is currently working with a Swedish production company to shoot the film Shana within the TRND and has put out casting calls for local First Nations actors. Vancouver is also known as Hollywood North, as stated by its own Wikipedia page. If you scroll down that page, you see a link to another page, List of Filming Locations Within the BC Interior. When you look at that page, there are 19 listings of films that have been shot in the B.C. Interior. First of all this heading is innacurate because the listing are basically all of the films that have been shot in B.C., outside of the Metro Vancouver Area, not just the B.C. Interior. And 10 of these listings are films or television shows that were shot in the TNRD, under the TNFC, which is over half. There should be a more well written page listing these films, and then a link to a TNFC page, because half of them could be under one setting.

Beeblebrox. No offence whatsoever, but regardless of the fact that you drove through Kamloops does not make you a verifiable source on whether or not the TNFC is something of note. Maybe you should speak to the mayor of Kamloops Peter Milobar (who also happens to be the TNRD Chair), or the head of the BC Film Commission, as they are verifiable sources of the weight of the TNFC, or even someone within the provincial government like myself who knows about film within the BC Interior but does not directly work for the TNFC. The TNFC recently wrapped up working on The A-Team, a massive, multi-million dollar Hollywood feature that was overseen by the TNFC, and as you can see by the link to the article, the TNFC played an instrumental part of this. Without the TNFC, The A-Team would not have been shot in the area it was, as this article clearly states. How is that note at least of some note?

As someone with knowledge of the film industry within B.C., I think I could be an editor for Wikipedia. I have knowledge of incorrect filming locations, and have noted a page I could already clean up. I have disclosed information, and been upfront about the nature of my employment, and feel as if I should not just be cast off as someone who is trying to hack into Wikipedia for personal/corporate/government promotion. The nature of any encyclopedia is to grow, and I can help do so. Also as a note, yes, if reinstated to edit, I will not re-create the TNFC page, however I think it's quite clear another editor should take the onus upon themselves to create the page.

I have no idea where you got the idea that I was presenting myself as a reliable source, I was just mentioning that I am in fact slightly familiar with this area. The mayor or the individual members of the film commission are also not considered reliable sources by Wikipedia's definition of such. Obviously they are not independent from the subject and would not be able to give a completely unbiased opinion of the commission. I've just looked at the source you presented from the Kamloops News, as that probably would be considered a good source. Unfortunately I did not see one single word about the TNRD, but of course it could be used in the article on the A-Team film. When I was very new here a more experienced user was nice enough to put this in plain English for me, and I'm going to pass that along to you: Our own observations count for nothing on Wikipedia. Knowing something to be a fact is only the first step. Before it can be added to Wikipedia we must find an independent source that verifies the information, otherwise is must be left out despite the fact that we know it to be true. I want to be clear with you that nobody is accusing you of being dishonest, I'm sure the film commission has done all the things you say it has, but without reliable sources to verify that our hands are tied. I'm going to contact the admin who blocked you and see if he would be ok with unblocking you since you have pledged not to recreate this article and are willing to change your name. In the meantime you may want to peruse the five pillars of Wikipedia. There are hundreds of rules, guidelines, policies, etc here, but they are all based in some way on these five general principles which are the foundation of everything we are doing here. Beeblebrox (talk) 02:16, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

By the way if and when you are unblocked it would be perfectly ok for you to file a request for an article to be created if you wanted to go that route. Beeblebrox (talk) 02:24, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Done a bit more digging, and I've found that there are some articles in the Kamloops News' archive that could be used to verify shooting locations for several feature films[1][2]. There may be more that could be found by someone like yourself with first-hand knowledge of what films were shot there, I just searched "film commission." Beeblebrox (talk) 02:46, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Beeblebrox. Thank you for your feedback, just a note on the Kamloops Daily News articles where you say there is no mention of the TNRD (Thompson-Nicola Regional District), we're speaking about the (TNFC) Thompson-Nicola Film Commission, and the executive director Vicci Weller is the main source in both those articles. The TNRD has a Wikipedia page already, and is the governing body that funds and overlooks the TNFC. Thank you for taking the time to unblock me and I will verify and change the movie shooting locations, and I will request that someone create a page for the Thompson-Nicola Film Commission. I would hope one of the half dozen editors I have been speaking to on this issue might take it upon themselves to do this as I see many pages get requested but few get created.

Your request to be unblocked has been granted for the following reason(s):

Allowing username change to PBWriter (talk · contribs). Please put this request in at Wikipedia:Changing username as soon as possible to avoid re-blocking.

Request handled by: Beeblebrox (talk)

Unblocking administrator: Please check for active autoblocks on this user after accepting the unblock request.

Done You're all set. –xeno^talk 18:47, 25 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Beeblebrox. Thank you for your help I have been reinstated. I have created a requested page for the Thompson-Nicola Film Commission. How do I go about generating interest for another editor to take it upon themselves to create it?

File copyright problem with File:TNRD Wikipedia.jpg

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If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. (ESkog)^(Talk) 22:17, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

ESkog. Image has been verified for usage from the Thompson-Nicola Film Commission executive director Vicci Weller. Please verify through their website emailing address for confirmation if needed.

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ImageTaggingBot. I think I found the right tag, can someone confirm this?

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