User talk:SwissLimey

Thank you for contributing to European history related articles. Aenv 18:01, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Jane Grey article

I'm just curious why you made the edit that you did on the Jane Grey article. I'm wondering why you changed "legal bastard" to "illegitimate"? in legal historical terms, there is a difference between those two legal categories. "Legal bastard" is, in the cases of Mary and Elizabeth, the more correct term. PhD Historian 01:59, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

By "interesting term," do you mean they will giggle at it and think it "a naughty word"? I am not a fan of dumbing-down facts or bowing to so-called "political correctness" by altering an acceptable and legally precise term simply because teenagers, sheltered from the term by an overly prudish adult world, are not immediately able to cope with it. Teach children and teenagers that in some contexts the word "bastard" is a proper legal term with no foul or obscene connotations and they will respond accordingly. I treat my undergraduate students as mature adults, and they generally react positively to such treatment. In the case of Mary and Elizabeth, both were born legitimate under contemporary English law. It is therefore incorrect to refer to either of them simply as "illegitimate," as that term generally implies a status acquired at birth. Each of them became (or were rendered) illegitimate only after Parliament declared them so through legal statutes passed years (and in Mary's case, many years) after their birth. Thus both were fully legitimate at birth and remained so until a Parliamentary Succession Act made each retroactively a bastard. It is also worth noting that the term used in the actual Act was "bastard," not "illegitimate." But no matter ... I may be undertaking a thorough re-write of the entire Jane Grey article quite soon. Until then, it can stay as it is. I was just wondering why you changed the term, and you were kind enough to answer. I appreciate that. PhD Historian 09:33, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree with everything you say, but I still think some judicious caution is needed. Undergraduates may not giggle at the term, but adolescents might... especially if no explanation is given in the article. We can't assume the average American high school student will understand what a "legal bastard" is without explanation. SwissLimey 08:54, 6 February 2007 (UTC)