User talk:Strawberycake
Stop deleting "Yue" from Cantonese, especially for spurious reasons. It does go by that name. kwami (talk) 06:55, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
- Stop adding "Yue" to Cantonese, especially for spurious reasons!! That is just Mandarin pinyin used by some Mandarin people in China who do not know the English name of the language. It is not the name of the language. Somebody made up the so called "Yue language", and said that Cantonese is a dialect of "Yue language", and the so called Yue language is a language of Sinitic language family, and Toishanese is another dialect of Yue, so it is technically wrong to say Cantonese is "yue yu". But in fact that is COMPLETELY WRONG! Actually Cantonese is the unique name of the whole language, including all kinds of Cantonese dialects, although in narrow sense it usually mean Standard Cantonese(Guangzhou dialect or Hong Kong dialect). The English phrase "Cantonese language" equals "粵語(Pronounced as yt y)". Toishanese is a dialect of Cantonese, just like standard Cantonese (Guangzhou or Hong Kong dialect). The Mandarin pinyin "Yue" is awkward, it's not the name of Cantonese language, nor the original pronunciation of "粵語" in standard Cantonese or any kind of Cantonese dialects. The awkward Mandarin pinyin "Yue" is not another English name of Cantonese, it is only a made up word. I strongly oppose you adding this to the article as another name of Cantonese.--Strawberycake (talk) 14:21, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
- But it is an English name. Check Ethnologue. For people who use "Yue" for the entire language, "Cantonese" means the dialect of Canton. There has even been discussion on whether to move the page to "Yue Chinese", which is what Ethnologue calls it. The word belongs in the article, because it's a synonym in the academic literature. kwami (talk) 17:40, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
- No. Cantonese is the name of the entire language. The English word "Cantonese" exactly equals to "粵語" or "白話"，while "standard Cantonese" equals to "廣州話" or "廣府話"（"廣州話" is standard Cantonese, all native Cantonese speaker admit that）。See Chinese version. Mandarin pinyin "Yue" is nothing.--Strawberycake (talk) 13:57, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
- But it is an English name. Check Ethnologue. For people who use "Yue" for the entire language, "Cantonese" means the dialect of Canton. There has even been discussion on whether to move the page to "Yue Chinese", which is what Ethnologue calls it. The word belongs in the article, because it's a synonym in the academic literature. kwami (talk) 17:40, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
- Now you're just being obnoxious. Not only are you pushing your biases, but you are reverting unconnected work such as the conversion of Cantonese transcriptions to a unified format. That is close to vandalism, and will not be tolerated. If you wish to eliminate "Yue" from the article, bring it up on the discussion page. If you continue to disrupt the article, you may be blocked. kwami (talk) 07:37, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
- It is you who are being obnoxious. You are just threatening people with different opinions. How can you be so anmassend?! You must be clear that Wikipedia is not your personal pedia. Your made-up "Yue language" already had an English name, that is, "Cantonese". I have already written this in the talk page of the article, hadn't you read that? What you are doing is just pushing your biases. It seems as if you are trying to replace the English word "Cantonese" with Mandarin pinyin "Yue", or at least you want to make people accept "Yue" as another name of Cantonese. You are trying to puzzle people. Remenber that people are not fool. --Strawberycake (talk) 13:45, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
- Now you're just being obnoxious. Not only are you pushing your biases, but you are reverting unconnected work such as the conversion of Cantonese transcriptions to a unified format. That is close to vandalism, and will not be tolerated. If you wish to eliminate "Yue" from the article, bring it up on the discussion page. If you continue to disrupt the article, you may be blocked. kwami (talk) 07:37, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
- I added a ref, the one I mentioned above, so that you can have no objection. Try Google: there are 10,000 hits for "Yue Chinese", and 10,000 more for "Yue language(s)/dialect(s)". The discussion page isn't for you to shout at everyone that they're wrong and that you're going to do whatever you want, it's a place to discuss changes to the article. You need to convince people that they're wrong.
- This isn't about propaganda. When two words are used for one idea, we pick one as the name of the article, but mention the other in the lede so that people who are familiar with the second term know what we're talking about, and people who put the second term in a search engine because they aren't familiar with it will be lead to the proper article. For example, someone comes across the phrase "Yue language". They have no idea what it means, so they put it in a search engine and pull up our article on Cantonese. The article starts, "Cantonese, or Yue ..." and they Ah! so it's Cantonese! Problem solved. The same is true in other fields: Namaka says "Namaka, or Haumea II", so that people who come across the phrase "Haumea II" will know that it's the same thing as the moon Namaka. We do not decide whether or not it is an appropriate name, we merely report the information. kwami (talk) 19:23, 29 September 2008 (UTC)