User talk:Steveoc 86

Welcome!

Hello, Steveoc 86, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question and then place {{helpme}} after the question on your talk page. Again, welcome! Firsfron of Ronchester 17:35, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hey!

I'm studying for a computer graphics/animation degree myself, Steveoc (Maya, Bryce, PhotoShop, etc). Since you have an interest in dinosaurs, and the dinosaur images on your userpage look great, please consider adding more. Wikipedia:WikiProject Dinosaurs could use more dedicated artists. Best wishes, Firsfron of Ronchester 18:06, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome to WikiProject Dinosaurs, Steveoc! Firsfron of Ronchester 17:16, 13 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you

______ HALLO STEVEOC!!!!

I came from Germany. I (a friend) will use a PICTURE from your in a Book in Germany! This picture: http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Jobaria_tiguidensis_steveoc.jpg&filetimestamp=20091229201745 .

we need the written copyright for the Book "Verbotene Geschichte" and possible later publications of the book. Paperback, foreign country etc. Your name/copyright is called in the book.

IMPORTANTLY urgently

PLEASE send a eMail on: LFIschinger@t-online.de! we do not know, how we reach you otherwise

Greets

___________________ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Andrea-Palma (talk • contribs) 12:54, 20 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Steveoc,

Thank you very much for toning down your comments here. It is greatly appreciated. Best wishes and happy editing, Firsfron of Ronchester 09:34, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

daspletosaurus image

Hi Steveoc - I've put your daspletosaurus image into the taxobox of that article. Then I noticed that the species name "Torusus" was capitalized, when it should be lowercase. Also, some people object to signatures in images, or other watermarks. Personally, I don't mind them at all, when they are discrete as yours in that image is, but there is a slim chance it comes up as an issue if that article is nominated for featured status. Debivort 05:22, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Prosaurolophus

The eyeball itself is larger than the sclerotic ring, which rings the pupil/iris; otherwise, I don't know too much about the eye, but as long as the seeing part is within the bounds of the ring, you're good. The ear fits between the quadrate and the exoccipital process, about where you have it. There's a reconstruction in Lull and Wright '42 of the ear of Anatosaurus, which I can send you. The tabs on the back would be artistic license at this point; you could certainly include them if you want, but their presence is unknown at this time in Prosaurolophus. Those dinosaurs for which we have such structures, Gryposaurus, Brachylophosaurus, and ?Edmontosaurus, don't have them preserved in the neck region for whatever reason.

Incidentally, while looking this up, I noticed that Lull and Wright claimed that Brown had restored the muzzle too long. I personally can't see much of a difference, but I can send you a couple of other reconstructions for comparison if you like. Send me an email, so I can get your address, and I'll send you the ear scan and some other stuff. J. Spencer 17:05, 1 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome! J. Spencer 18:50, 1 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Giganotosaurus Size

Sorry but Giganotosaurus was 13 metres at average and the largest one found was 13.7 but i didnt want to edit that far and at most it was 14.5 metres because of some new estimates i found. BamboozlingBert I found the new estimates in a article when they discovered the 18 metre Spinosaurus fossils and were seeing the sizes of the largest theropods and comparing them. Also the largest Giganotosaurus found was 13.7 metres so it doesn't matter if the articles sourced or not, although i won't change the article information as its sourced but maybe you should, also whats wrong about telling people viewing the article why its teeth are desighned knife-like due to sauropod prey and although you probably won't if you do re-edit it back to 13.7 metres state that Goganotosauru was almost 2 metres larger than any KNOWN Tyrannosaurus.

Resonces here, User talk:Bamboozlingbert21 Steveoc 86 (talk) 01:21, 21 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Tyrannosaurus Size

Also can you please edit the Tyrannosaurus size as they are potraying it at over 13 metres when it only reached 12 so if it was 13 metres and giganotosaurus was almost 2 metres longer than that makes giganotosaurus almost 15 metres. BamboozlingBert

Responces here, User talk:Bamboozlingbert21 Steveoc 86 (talk) 01:21, 21 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Parasaurolophus

You're welcome - I was just surprised to find it (and that someone had translated the entire article so quickly). It's very good! J. Spencer 20:44, 21 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, I don't see anything off about it. I'll put it in the taxobox. J. Spencer 02:30, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Deinoychus Picture

You should really put your deinonychus picture on the deinoychus article as the ones currently on there are to bird like and show it as having wings and feathers covering it claws ad hands and they don't look very realistic like that. BamboozlingBert

Like you said deinonychus doesn't have any smoking gun evidence that it did and if it did have feathered hands, face, neck and feet then surely that would cause a problem with feeding like todays birds as vultures don't have feathers on their feet,face and neck so rotting meat doesn't get caught in them so surely deinoychus sould be the same. Also take a look and if you diagree with it and agree with me (for once) edit the feathered dinosaurs page as it classes Triceratops, Tyrannosaurus and Styracosaurus as feathered.!?

Thanks for telling me i checked it again so they must of realised their mistake and edited it.

Edmontosaurus speed

I belive its speed cold be 25 mph as that is th top speed of tyrannosaurus and evidence on edmontosaurus bones show bite marks of tyrannosaurus that have healed, if they healed it shows edmontosaurus escaped and lived long enough to heal and with few defenive features it hd to of pulled ff and ran away and i only could have done that by using the same speed or a higher speed than tyrannosaurus but the second one is impossible of an animal that size (about it running over 25mph). BamboozlingBert

Responce here, User talk:Bamboozlingbert21 Steveoc 86 (talk) 01:21, 21 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Anatotitan

I kinda suspected that A. longiceps was the specimen they had in mind. It's an ignored species now, although it predates almost all of the Edmonto-Anato-Anatotitan species. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a better 12 m Anatotitan specimen, but nobody seems interested in measuring duckbills. We've been using the ISBN-10 for the most part, I think. There are Complete Dinosaur refs in other articles you can borrow and just rewrite, too (Iguanodon comes to mind.)J. Spencer 00:47, 21 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Spinosaurus Head Image

Hi, I have reverted back to your version of Image:Spinosaurus skull Reconstruction Steveoc.jpg and brightened up the vertebrae image. When dealing with scans of black and white material, I have a habit of trying to maximize the dynamic range of the image to make details more discernible. Since the level of gamma correction varies widely, this could in part be a monitor issue, as some displays don't benefit from this presentation and render everything in a bland, dark tone. The modifications uploaded yesterday weren't created with the benefit of a calibrated monitor or anything, they were the result of an aesthetic decision. Thanks for the feedback, ˉˉ^anetode╦╩ 19:13, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Serioulsy Stop what ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bamboozlingbert21 (talk • contribs) 15:10, 2 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Rinconsaurus

Hey Steve,

I just saw you signed up for Rinconsaurus. Thanks for volunteering; I look forward to seeing the results. :) Firsfron of Ronchester 11:22, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Portrait of a Turkish Woman

Hi, this is a plea for you to support the nomination of my photo as a featured picture at Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Portrait of a Turkish Woman! If you could I would be very grateful, Kitkatcrazy 16:56, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Giganotosaurus

Okay I get where your going but is the Giganotosaurus really only 43.3 feet long? If thats true, then it is only 3 inches longer than a T-rex! I always though they grew to at least 45 feet long. Is this really true because Giganotosaurus is one of my favorate dinosaurus. Johnny542 16:36, 16 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reverting vandalism does not violate the 3RR. Mcelite's edits to Giganotosaurus however did not appear to be petty vandalism. I issued a 3RR warning for that reason. If Mcelite is simply vandalizing or spamming Wikipedia, I suggest reporting him/her to WP:AIV. But for now, he/she seems to have stopped editing. ~Enviroboy^Talk_Contribs - 00:29, 21 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Responce here to an edit war warning (that been removed by) User talk:Enviroboy#Warning Steveoc 86 (talk) 01:21, 21 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hey its me again, Johnny542. I was just wondering, are bulls for animals the larger males of the animal species or is it sometimes the other way around. If you ever saw King Kong, you migh understand like a bull V-rex is larger than a female but in real life, they say that a female T-rex is larger than a bull T-rex. I am so confused. Johnny542 (talk) 20:50, 23 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh okay. Johnny542 (talk) 21:44, 23 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh yeah, have you seen King Kong, good movie and game. Johnny542 (talk) 22:26, 23 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

So you are a big dino fan huh. Do you know that new Turok game, it is pretty cool. Johnny542 (talk) 22:59, 23 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Steve, have you ever seen I Love New York 2, funny-ass show. Also are you going to see Jurassic Park 4 when it comes out in 2008? So what are you doing these past days? Johnny542 16:19, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Allosaurus size comparison.svg

Thanks for creating this great diagram! I guess you know Allosaurus just got featured recently, and your image really helps give context to the article. All the best! – Quadell ^{(talk) (random)} 14:47, 19 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Alioramus images

Hey Steve, great work on that Massospondylus skull diagram! I was wondering if you could create a similar diagram for Alioramus. No labels or anything, just the skull would be great! Here's a picture if you're interested. The top one is a modern reconstruction from The Dinosauria II and would be the best model. The bottom one is from the original 1976 description and is outdated... the only reason I included it is because it shows a little more detail on the crests.

I was also wondering if there was anyway you could do a scale diagram like the one you did for Bruthayakosaurus or however it's spelled, with the bones printed over the silhouette. In this case all that are known is the skull and the metatarsals of one foot! The body would be like a slender tyrannosaurid, probably similar to this one of Gorgosaurus. It would be about 6 meters long.

I would really appreciate either or both of these images if you have the time and inclination. Thanks! Sheep81 (talk) 07:35, 22 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Image of partial metatarsals: [1] Sheep81 (talk) 12:26, 22 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dunkleosteus

Hi Steve. I liked too much your skull diagram of Massospondylus, that I thought it would be a great idea if you do one of Dunkleosteus, cause I'm working on the article in spanish wikipedia and it need some useful images. If you want to collaborate, I recommend you the skeletal from this paper as base. Thanks. --Dropzink (talk) 07:32, 3 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Also... don't forget in naming the parts (according to the paper) and put shadows on them, in few words.. like Massospondylus, not Alioramus heheXD Dropzink (talk) 07:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, it's amazing! Better leave the names in english, I know this stupendous diagram will be used here too. Anyway, it need some changes. Problems I found is that the gnathal plates ("teeth") you marked as dentition, but is not really a dentition, the name on the paper was "Bladed dentition". Also you make a mistake marking the lower gap as Pharymx, cause is Pharynx. And in Quadrato mandibular articulation, it would be better if you put a slash between "Quadrato" and "mandibular" (Quadrato-mandibular). Thanks. Dropzink (talk) 18:46, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is that the diagram is still indicating the plates are teeth... but probably I confused you with my big explanation. Only mark them as "Bladed dentition". Dropzink (talk) 22:36, 4 March 2008 (UTC) P.D.: Try that the names don't touch with the marking lines.[reply]

Perfect!:D Thanks a lot! Cheers. Dropzink (talk) 23:38, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

NEWS FLASH

The spider has been found, on this video (see the coments, ignore the video), someone mentioned it was found —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mr. Loner (talk • contribs) 13:22, 8 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Protection

Ooops, cheers for that! Both were declined for semi-protection anyway, but a certain Mr. Loner has been blocked for a week... So hopefully the Paleozoic spider front should be quiet for a while! Mark t young (talk) 18:10, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Animation

Hey, I just read on your userpage that you're studying animation, I will too for three years, beginning this September! Where do you study it and for how long? And by the way, rest in peace, Stan Winston... FunkMonk (talk) 10:57, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, so you're already finished? Is 86 your year of birth? If so, that's early to be ready for a job! I'm 21 myself. How are the opportunities for work in that field in the UK? Do you do 3D, 2D or both? I live in Denmark, and I'll be attending this: http://www.animwork.dk/Default.asp?ID=177, which will be both 2D and 3D (I prefer 2D, but there isn't too much work in it these days, apart from flash stuff). There are some quite good animation studios here, so I hope I don't have to go abroad to get a job when I'm finished... Yeah, it really sucks that Stan Winston died. I loved his Aliens, Predator and Terminator work too, all of it has inspired me from since I was a little kid. I wonder if JP4 will go fully CG then... FunkMonk (talk) 22:11, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So there's no market for classical 2D animation in the UK? Your 3D Prosaurolophus head looks cool, was it done in Maya? I've never done 3D, but I'll have to learn it to survive, heh. On JP4, well, I believe it was always Stan Winston who personally pushed for directors to use animatronics instead of just CGI, so now he's gone, it might be harder to advocate for the use of it. FunkMonk (talk) 07:35, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I started in that animation school a few months ago, and it's going fine, bouncing balls, walks, all that stuff, in 2D. How are things going for you? FunkMonk (talk) 20:51, 4 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I heard it is tough in the UK, we have a Welsh teacher who is married to a Danish animator, he was very surprised at how "easy" it is to get a job in the business here in Denmark compared to in the UK, people starting their own companies and all sorts of stuff. It should be better other places in Europe too. So, heh, maybe you should go abroad? Or do you even have to be affiliated with a studio? You could maybe start out doing stuff on your own, and maybe take less money for it than a studio would in the beginning? That way you could at least create a name for yourself, or what you could call it... Looking at what people can get away with for money puts hopes higher I think, take a look at his article, if you haven't already: http://scienceblogs.com/tetrapodzoology/2008/01/how_not_to_keep_dinosaurs.php You're leagues beyond that guy (the artist), mayne, and he gets published! Take a look at this article and the comments on it too: http://scienceblogs.com/tetrapodzoology/2008/01/how_to_really_keep_dinosaurs.php FunkMonk (talk) 01:33, 6 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hah, yeah, speaking can be a bitch, especially when you have to sell yourself all the time, like you have to in a business like this... Sometimes it seems that people get more sucess by just being extremely talkative and social rather than by actually being able to animate and draw well, hehe... Anyway, I wish you luck! FunkMonk (talk) 18:08, 6 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Artwork Request

Steve I see you do photoshop painting.I need a figure of a South American butterfly from a photo. Can you help me out? The insect is mainly black with long tails ditinguishing it from its relatives so I hope not too daunting.Robert akk Notafly (talk) 07:47, 17 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

SYRMATIA: Mostly South American METALMARKS _ unmistakable shape with incredibly long, drawn-out hindwings. No label. V v Quick since I am about to miss my train Only one image google image search Syrmatia Very many thanks Notafly (talk) 14:54, 17 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Steve Many thanks.Looks fine on my monitor and there is a difference between the new computer aided images, drawings and photos in that the salients only are included as these images from Shyamal show[2]. Very many thanks. This was a hard image to find Not in major works, photo libraries and I couldn't find a specimen.I'll write the page soon.May I come to you again once I've come up with a plan Robert Notafly (talk) 21:05, 17 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thats great.At some point I would like to explore mimicry an area where graphics really comes in to it's own.Take a look at this [3] as an instance.Keep in touch atb RobertNotafly (talk) 10:09, 18 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image request

Steve, I noticed that your user page says you are willing to consider artwork requests. I have been working on the Deinosuchus article, and would greatly appreciate if you could render a close-up, B&W drawing of this giant crocodilian's head. I'm looking for a perspective similar to Image:Spinosaurus skull steveoc.jpg, with the head facing left and the mouth slightly open. The physical appearance of Deinosuchus was fairly conventional; the snout was broad, with a slightly raised bump for the nostrils, more similar to that of an alligator than a crocodile. The osteoderms (if any are included in the drawing) should be proportionately larger than on modern crocs. Most important is the teeth - this is the big difference that stands out right away. The front teeth are very robust and thick; the rear teeth are globidentine (almost semi-circular) in shape and are designed for crushing. Here is an accurate image from a 2002 book on Deinosuchus, to give you a visual idea of what the teeth looked like. If you could do this, it would really add a lot to the article. Thanks in advance! FanCollector (talk) 01:00, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pterosaurs format

Hey, I'm working on a revamp for the List of pterosaurs and I've been experimenting with a slightly different format for displaying the images in relation to the table because the way I had been doing it previously interfered with the tables' sorting function. If you could check out this section on the page and tell me how it looks compared to the other tables and get back to me, I'd be very grateful. Abyssal (talk) 18:58, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

All the images are in the first row with the cell containing them stretched out to look like a column. Try sorting a couple columns and you'll see what I mean very fast. :) Abyssal (talk) 20:41, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That's basically what I wanted to do originally, but since it interferes with the functionality of the table, I've had to attempt to find alternate means. And the code isn't as scary as it looks. I intend on leaving comments in their explaining what's going on when it actually gets implemented in the article. Abyssal (talk) 21:25, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I tweaked the Q-Z section again so that it should look better on bigger monitors and/or higher resolutions. I haven't had a chance to look at it on my home monitor (at school now), so I thought I'd try to get some extra eyes on this until I can. Does it look any different/better/worse? Abyssal (talk) 16:08, 21 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Scutellosaurus

Thanks! ArthurWeasley (talk) 21:18, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sauro scale

No worries Scott, you's looks like a big improvement. I think mine was actually made by scaling *down* the neck to correct proportions and keeping a body based on a scaled-up Brach. I think your version is more plausible. Dinoguy2 (talk) 18:10, 22 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Bruha

No probs, I don't have the source file anymore with individual layers, but I managed to photoshop the Bruha out of the image. Hope you don't mind I kept the same stencil for Argentinosaurus, it's one of the few titanosaurian images out there that's (probably) correctly proportioned... Dinoguy2 (talk) 23:16, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

FPC

Just so you know. Keep up the great work. I was so pleasantly surprised to find your gallery. upstate NYer 03:38, 20 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/File:Allosaurus Jaws Steveoc86.jpg

An image created by you has been promoted to featured picture status

Your image, File:Allosaurus Jaws Steveoc86.jpg, was nominated on Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates, gained a consensus of support, and has been promoted. If you would like to nominate an image, please do so at Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates. Thank you for your contribution! Makeemlighter (talk) 03:44, 29 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome back

Cheers for the warm return! I've now finally got a chance to spend some time on wiki, so I thought I'd return. Your palaeo-images are very good. Has anyone approached you to make any, and include them, in a published paper? Best, Mark t young (talk) 22:41, 5 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yeh, plus getting my PhD thesis ready for submission, and writing papers. It all got kinda much, and wiki was the one that got dropped. Well, if your interested in some metriorhynchid work, I'm always on the look-out for palaeo-artists. I particularly like the skull reconstructions you do. Cheers, Mark t young (talk) 23:11, 5 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I can send you some pdfs on them. You should be able to email me through wikipedia, but you can also get my email from my website: [4] Mark t young (talk) 23:34, 5 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Barnstar!!!

		The Content Creativity Barnstar
		For your beautiful art. Abyssal (talk) 19:30, 26 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't see any on your User Page. I really hope I'm not the first to reward your hard work! Abyssal (talk) 23:41, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

POTD notification

Hi Steve,

Just to let you know that the Featured Picture File:Allosaurus Jaws Steveoc86.jpg is due to make an appearance as Picture of the Day on November 12, 2011. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2011-11-12. howcheng {chat} 19:21, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hello!!!

Nice to meet you!!! Your paleoart is pretty pretty cool.It's nice to see your gallery and i have favorited many of your works in Deviantart--Dino-Mario (talk) 01:21, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Star

		The Dinosaur Barnstar
		For all your great paleoart! Haven't seen you around lately, I hope you'll be back. FunkMonk (talk) 10:00, 6 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of automated file description generation

Your upload of File:BruhathkayosaurusSteveoctest1.jpg or contribution to its description is noted, and thanks (even if belatedly) for your contribution. In order to help make better use of the media, an attempt has been made by an automated process to identify and add certain information to the media's description page.

This notification is placed on your talk page because a bot has identified you either as the uploader of the file, or as a contributor to its metadata. It would be appreciated if you could carefully review the information the bot added. To opt out of these notifications, please follow the instructions here. Thanks! Message delivered by Theo's Little Bot (opt-out) 14:22, 26 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Another one of your uploads, File:Bruhathkayosaurusv2Steveoc.jpg, has also had some information automatically added. If you get a moment, please review the bot's contributions there as well. Thanks! Message delivered by Theo's Little Bot (opt-out) 14:23, 26 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Another one of your uploads, File:Bruhathkayosaurusv3Steveoc.jpg, has also had some information automatically added. If you get a moment, please review the bot's contributions there as well. Thanks! Message delivered by Theo's Little Bot (opt-out) 14:21, 27 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Massospondylus skull in Bangla

Hello Steveoc! My username is Bya Koron. I am new on Wikipedia and a bit technologically challenged,so I don't know why my user page shows red in English (I do have an account in Bangla Wikipedia (bn.wikipdia.org)). Can you please tell me if it would be illegal if I download your massospondylus skull image, translate the points into Bangla, and then upload it in the Bangla Dinosaur page? If it IS illegal, can you tell me if there is a way to do it legally? There is a LOT of work to do in the paleontology field in my language. In the 'view history' (ইতিহাস) section of the Bangla page my account is visible. Please help. Thank you!---ব্যা করণ (talk) 16:16, 28 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Bya Koron, It is legal, you are free to download the image and edit it! The only thing I'd prefer is some attribution. Steveoc 86 (talk) 19:18, 29 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks a lot! Of course, I'll mind the attribution part.---ব্যা করণ (talk) 14:14, 16 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Merry Christmas!

Oh, you'd better watch out, you'd better not cry, you'd better not pout, I'm telling you why

Christmas Velociraptor is coming to town

He sees you when you sleeping, he knows when you're awake, he knows if you've been bad or good, so be good for your life's sake

Oh, you'd better watch out, you'd better not cry, you'd better not pout, I'm telling you why

Christmas Velociraptor is coming to town

Merry Christmas, and watch out for the Christmas Velociraptor, IJReid (talk) 25 December 2014

ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
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Hello, Steveoc 86. Voting in the 2017 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 10 December. All users who registered an account before Saturday, 28 October 2017, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Wednesday, 1 November 2017 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

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Argentinosaurus/Patagotitan Tail Length Discrepancy

So I'm really trying to understand where the issue lies with my correction to the Argentinosaurus article. Hartman's theory regarding Argentinosaurus being basal and thus having a relatively shorter tail was posited prior to Patagotitan. We know based on recovered Patagotitan remains that their tails were not such, displaying surprisingly robust musculature. From Jose, C. et al 2017:

"The apomorphic shape of the transverse process of Patagotitan provides an expansion of the attachment areas for the tail muscles (m. caudofemoralis longus,m. ilio-ischiocaudalis and m. spinalis, respectively [29,30]), which evidences modifications on muscular architecture and may imply an increase in caudal muscular mass in this giant titanosaur."

Greater surface area from muscle attachment is indicative of thicker and longer tail length in Patagotitan. Argentinosaurus and Patagotitan are sister taxa, and as such an extreme discrepancy in tail size is unlikely through parsimony. I would like to hear your thoughts on this, but I must impress upon you that Hartman's theory is outdated and should be removed from the article if it is not otherwise corrected with a follow up statement, as it otherwise spreads disinformation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.248.189.62 (talk) 20:25, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, thanks for the message. The edits you have made to Argentinosaurus are unfortunately original research which is not allowed on Wikipedia, see WP:NOR. The source you cite says nothing regarding Hartman's thoughts on tail length nor suggests that it would be proportionally similar to Patagotitan. It's not that what you were writing was implausible or wrong but that it is not attributed to another author and therefore can't be cited in an encyclopedia. We have to try and avoid joining the dots if possible WP:SYNTH. If Hartman changed his mind and wrote a blog post stating that, or another paleontologist commented on the issue, it would be different and we could, in theory, cite it.

Regarding disinformation: the tail is unknown, and Wikipedia is simply stating that Hartman thinks that it had a shorter tail then the other two titanosaurs. All that is true and citable. It's not disinformation. Wikipedia is not saying that Argentinosaurus had a shorter tail, Wikipedia is saying that Hartman said it had a shorter tail.

Hartman's comments are from a blog post; normally we don't use blogs unless they are from notable paleontologists and/or are deemed necessary. We try and stick to primary scientific journals and books. I'm not sure who added that in there but I agree we should probably remove that statement because it's not a blog post that goes into great detail. Hartman that states he has created a restoration of Argentinosaurus but he has yet to post it. If he were to post it on his blog, and wrote about it in some detail, then maybe it could be justified to include that information.

Regarding Patagotitan's long tail: The quote above just states that it had probably had a muscular tail and doesn't mention tail length nor is any correlation made. They never explicitly say it had a 'long tail' they only show a long tail interpretation in the illustration and what became the mounted skeleton. For what it's worth, Hartman's has made comments on Deviantart regarding the reconstructed tail length of Patagotitan, which he states several reasons, as to why the authors have made errors in their assumptions. Read through the comments here: [5] [6] If anything, the disinformation was in the published description, illustration, and museum mount showing a long-tailed Patagotitan. Unfortunately, until a palaeontologist writes something on that we can't do much about that issue on Wikipedia. Cheers. Steveoc 86 (talk) 22:21, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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