User talk:St-Sébas

Place of birth

Hello St-Sébas. Please stop changing the birthplace of people born in French Algeria to Algeria. We use the place at the time of someone's birth, not the current name of the country. Thanks. Number 5 7 13:51, 9 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Even if the reliable sources say otherwise ? St-Sébas (talk) 13:53, 9 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Many sources opt to use the current name of the country even if it has changed – this is a choice of style not a factual statement. On Wikipedia we use the historical names as appropriate to the time someone was born. As an example, someone born in what is now Zimbabwe prior to 1980 would be listed as being born in Southern Rhodesia – see Robert Mugabe. Number 5 7 13:56, 9 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Where does it say so? Are you implying that we should ignore Wikipedia's core sourcing policy, Wikipedia:Verifiability? St-Sébas (talk) 14:03, 9 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I refer you again to the Mugabe article, but if you need further proof, look at George Washington (born in British America), Angela Merkel (West Germany). I'm not interested in attempts to Wikilawyer around exactly what sources say. If this isn't enough evidence for you, then per WP:BRD, you still need to stop reverting and get consensus for your changes. Number 5 7 14:59, 9 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I reverted changes made by someone who didn't get consensus before doing so. You have yet to give me a single good reason as to why I should ignore Wikipedia's core sourcing policy. St-Sébas (talk) 15:09, 9 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Firstly, I've explained that it's a convention, and given you high profile examples. Secondly, this is not a sourcing issue; we do not blindly copy exactly what sources say – for example, some places may be referred to by different names (e.g. Burma/Myanmar) in different sources. We have to pick one of them and be consistent across Wikipedia, rather than changing usage depending on which source has been used. This is why we stick to historical names as correct at the time of the event. Number 5 7 15:27, 9 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

In this case, we have to copy what the sources say since the term "French-Algeria" does not officially refer to a historical place, otherwise we would have to apply the same logic to all those who were born there before 1962. Besides, Wikipedia:Verifiability is there for a reason, to avoid WP:OR. St-Sébas (talk) 15:39, 9 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

(a) No we don't (b) this should be applied to all born there before 1962 and (c) this isn't original research. For a brand new user, you seem to know a lot about Wikipedia policy. Have you edited under another account previously? Number 5 7 15:42, 9 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

(a) I do not agree (b} Says who ? (c) The lack of reliable sources says otherwise. Yes I have, years ago. St-Sébas (talk) 15:48, 9 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

As I said, I'm not interested in dealing with Wikilawyering re sources, so I don't think I really have anything else to add. I suggest you start discussions on the talk pages of the articles you wish to change and get consensus for doing so.

What was your original account? Number 5 7 15:51, 9 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

As I said, that was years ago and is irrelevant. You start the discussions on the talk pages and you explain why you're deleting the reliable sources. St-Sébas (talk) 15:59, 9 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Forgive my suspicions, but your edits (changing country of birth to the modern country rather than the correct historical country) are typical of some problematic nationalist editors who have ended up being banned or blocked for their behaviour. I would rather see some confirmation that you are not one of these editors. What was your previous account and why have you not used it? Number 5 7 16:51, 9 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

If I could remember, I would of used it. I have been a WP editor on and off for years and I have never been banned for such behaviour, that's all you have to know. I tend to do things by the book and that's exactly what I'm doing right now.

I, on the other hand, am assuming good faith and still waiting for you to explain on the talk pages why you're deleting the reliable sources. St-Sébas (talk) 17:17, 9 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You are the one seeking to make the change, so the onus is on you to put forward an argument for doing so now that your edits have been reverted. Number 5 7 23:16, 9 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

On the contrary, per WP:PROVEIT, the onus is on you to prove that your edits are not WP:OR. I started a discussion on Kheira Bouziane talk page, thereby giving you the chance to do so. St-Sébas (talk) 13:07, 10 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Number 57, but I prefer my proposition, writing "Algeria" as it was called then when it was part of France (it was called "Algeria", it was not called "French Algeria"), but linking it to the French Algeria article so it contains the right info about the real country of birth (like this: Oran, Algeria; Algiers, Algeria; Constantine, Algeria; Orléansville, Algeria; Mostaganem, Algeria; etc). Akseli9 (talk) 23:33, 10 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The real country of birth was actually France, so omitting French (or France) is misleading. Let's keep this discussion at Talk:Kheira Bouziane though please. Number 5 7 00:00, 11 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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