User talk:Speirosmusic
Contested deletion
[edit]This page is not unambiguously promotional, because... (the person mentioned (me) is a genuine artist, and the music isn't for sale. It is the same as any other band or songwriter being mentioned here on wikipedia.) --Speirosmusic (talk) 07:52, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
- Actually... no, it's not. For an article to belong in the mainspace, you must show that the subject is notable by way of coverage in reliable sources. Existing as a performer is not enough. Now the rules are slightly different for userspace pages, but the end result is that you cannot use your userpage as a way to promote yourself on Wikipedia. It was pretty unambiguous, as your only edits have been to create a userpage to promote yourself. There is nothing out there to show that you as a songwriter are notable and your userpage was edited up to look like an article and was really just full of various links to your songs. I'm sorry if this is harsh, but WP:UPNOT and WP:NOTWEBHOST is pretty clear about that. If you want to edit other articles on Wikipedia then feel free, but in the end this just isn't a place to post about your music. I'm not going to block you since you are a new user and I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, but I do want you to know that we're not a place to promote yourself. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 08:56, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
I posted this previously, but I can't see where it went. It's a link to the copy of the certificate showing Speirosmusic's award as a semi-finalist in the international "Song of the Year" competition. I hope you can see that this shows that as a songwriter, Speirosmusic is not unambiguous. Thanks. As for the page being an article, it is indeed an article. My songs aren't sold by me to the public, as I am a songwriter only (I know it is me on the video's, but when the songs are given play, it will be by someone else, and Speirosmusic will only be noted on the album cover as the songwriter. I don't perform to make albums. My YouTube video's are my legal status as the melody/vocal ideas, along with the lyrics).
Is there any reason why my page can't be reinstated considering this?
http://songwritingcontest.songoftheyear.com/speirosesteropoulos.html
Speirosmusic (talk) 10:24, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
- The thing is, the page can't be used for promotion and the big thing here is that your sole purpose for being here so far has been to create a userpage about yourself and what you've done. The award isn't really a big notable thing per Wikipedia (most awards aren't). On userpages the guideline is that while you can talk a little bit about yourself, if your only reason for signing up is to post about yourself and link to various pages (such as YT), then that's considered to be a spam/promotional userpage. We're not a webhost for you to post about yourself. Even if this is "just" a userpage, you can't use it as a way of promoting yourself and link to everything you've ever done. That's not what Wikipedia is for. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 11:19, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
- Also, we can't predict that someone will play your songs. That's sort of WP:CRYSTAL when it comes down to it. We're not a promotional site or a webhost for you to post your links. While I will admit that you aren't listing prices for your songs, the page was still considered to be promotional per Wikipedia's standards. It also didn't help that you wrote it as if you were writing an article, which is a big no-no for user pages. If you're planning on editing things not pertaining to you then you can add some limited information about yourself, but in the end the previous version was still considered promotional. If your only purpose here is to post about yourself, then this is really the wrong place for information about yourself. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 11:24, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
It isn't for promotion, but is "AN ARTICLE SHOWING WHO SPEIROSMUSIC IS". Just as an article on Bob Dylan would be showing who Bob Dylan is, for anyone who wanted to know "Who is this fellow I've heard of? I heard his song somewhere." I do the same. If someone else posts the article about me, is it defined under the same criteria that you are judging me on? Then anyone else can write an article on me, except for myself? You keep saying to me that I wrote it as an article. That's because it IS....IT IS... an article. That is why I wrote this article. If I was to write it as anything else, then I could post it as anything else. I do elsewhere on other media, as you will see if you click on the links from even the links on this page. Also, type "Speirosmusic" into Google, and see what you get. If it's not meant to be an article, can you tell me what it is supposed to be? And also, where then should I post my very brief autobiography?
Also, it isn't a link to everything I've ever done. I'm also an award-winning poet. I didn't mention that on this page, as Speirosmusic isn't known for poetry, but for music...hence the music bit in the name. I also have many other songs that I haven't linked to. I have enough links on YouTube already, as I do on other sites. But I am a genuine artist, and I believe as a genuine artist, I am quite in my rights to be spoken of in this encyclopedia. So here are some questions that I require an answer for:
1) Who is authorised to post an article on Speirosmusic?
Any other person other than myself? If so then should I ask someone else to do it? (And that shows the insensibility of this whole point, as anyone could write an article on me...except "from the horses mouth".)
2) Why am I told that I'm wrong, and potentially able to lose my username account by posting an accurate article on Speirosmusic?
Should it be a main article, and not a user article?
3) These links to songs are direct, and aren't for sale. They are freely linked to by many other websites, and I don't receive one cent out of it, as it's freely allowed for people to look at my music, although I hold a copyright on them. None of these other sites pay me anything for it. Therefore, in what way is my article promotional as opposed to how any other artist article is presented?
4) An example I'd like you to look at to see where I stand is the very well-known band ACDC, or the artist Pro Hart . If you click on their posts, you will see that it links to the band or their art, including songs, and information based on the songs. So on this fourth point, could you please clarify for me what I need to do to have a page here AS ANY OTHER ARTIST, so that I can amend this page (which is a user page, made by me, the user, about me, the user) so that the specifics are covered.
5) If I'm not meant to post an article on myself, then what am I meant to post?
Is not every single page an article? Every single one? I believe this article is in harmony with this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons I am happy to edit what is needed to be edited, or to categorise it in its correct place, but to be removed, based on these claims is inaccurate and unfair, as there are many other artists who have articles. My page is written as an article as it IS an article. That is the whole point, and you keep on saying to me that I shouldn't be writing it as an article. I'm very confused by this statement, as I believe every time I look at a page on wikipedia.org I look at an article. Are they all wrong?
6) How can you help me with this article which I would like so that people get an accurate knowledge of who Speirosmusic is...the songwriter?
Thanks. Speirosmusic (talk) 13:08, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
- The thing is, Speiromusic is not a notable persona and Wikipedia is not a place to promote yourself. There is no if, ands, or buts about this. The thing about bios of living persons is that the person has to be notable. In any case, here's number specific answers:
- If someone else wrote about you, it would still get deleted for one reason or another, either as promotion or because you don't pass WP:BLP. You are not a notable persona and do not pass WP:GNG in any format. None of the awards you have won pass notability guidelines. Most awards out there do not count towards notability and none of the ones that you've shown me establish notability in the slightest.
- The thing about posting a user article is that so far you've established that you're only interested in posting about yourself. You haven't shown the slightest inclination towards improving Wikipedia as far as anything else goes. Plus your edits were considered to be spam and promotional. Rather than block you outright as a promotional/spam account, I decided to give you the benefit of the doubt that you would want to edit Wikipedia about something other than yourself. You've shown nothing to show me that my decision to not block you outright was the correct one.
- Even if you aren't selling songs, linking to each and every song you've written like you have is still considered to be WP:LINKSPAM and promotional. The thing about promotional content is that it doesn't have to have taglines such as "buy now" and "the greatest thing since sliced bread" to be considered promotional.
- The thing about the bands you've mentioned is that they have been covered in multiple independent and reliable sources. There is a big difference between bands that have been covered by newspapers and sold millions of albums and someone that has only posted things to YouTube.
- Assuming that you are actually going to contribute to Wikipedia and not use it as a free web host, you can post limited data about yourself on your userpage, but you can't post the stuff that you were posting and you can't make it out to be an actual article. An example as far as what is considered to be acceptable as far as stuff about yourself goes (job-wise) would be User:MichaelQSchmidt or User:Yunshui. The thing is, I haven't seen where you've asserted that you're going to do anything other than post about yourself on your userpage. If all you're here to do is create a userpage listing your music and that's it, then that makes it even more inappropriate.
- I'm going to get another admin to look at this, but I'll be honest in that I really don't think that you're actually here to contribute to Wikipedia and that you're just here to create a page about yourself. I'm trying to assume good faith, but I just am getting the feeling that you're only here to create pages about yourself and not contribute to articles about things other than yourself. The point I've tried to make over and over again is that promotional userpages aren't kosher. You can post small things such as "I'm a songwriter and I have a YouTube page, I want to edit music related articles since I love music.", but that's something you should only do if you're actually going to edit Wikipedia articles. If you have no inclination of doing any actual editing to anything other than your userpage, then that's seen as a promotional only account. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 15:30, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
Your username is the only reason for this block. You are welcome to choose a new username (see below).
A username should not be promotional, related to a "real-world" group or organization, misleading, offensive or disruptive. Also, usernames may not end in the word "bot" unless the account is an approved bot account.
You are encouraged to choose a new account name that meets our policy guidelines and create the account yourself. Alternatively, if you have already made edits and you wish to keep your existing contributions under a new name, then you may request a change in username by:
- Adding
{{unblock-un|your new username here}}on your user talk page. You should be able to do this even though you are blocked, as you can usually still edit your own talk page. If not, you may wish to contact the blocking administrator by clicking on "E-mail this user" on their talk page. - At an administrator's discretion, you may be unblocked for 24 hours to file a request.
- Please note that you may only request a name that is not already in use, so please check here for a listing of already taken names. The account is created upon acceptance, thus do not try to create the new account before making the request for a name change. For more information, please see Wikipedia:Changing username.
- Adding
{{unblock|Your reason here}}, but you should read our guide to appealing blocks first. Daniel Case (talk) 16:18, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
Speirosmusic (block log • active blocks • global blocks • autoblocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Requested username:
Decline reason:
As for the comments of your claim for self-promotion, I asked a series of questions, which one of them (point 5) I asked for your information about either what I need to change, or where I should do it. Your response was to block me, and to state "Your username is the only reason for this block." Well, it seems that two things at least have happened here. Firstly, although I got some answers, Daniel Case decided he'd block me, and in the talk mention to see what happens when I try to come back. See, that is exactly opposite of what this site is about. For him to state that "there's absolutely no understanding that ..." is a form of belittlement, and discrimination on the perspective that discussion is not being answered specifically to what I'm asking, as a bias has been formed due to the uncomfortable nature of a fellow peer not sure what to do. I stated quite clearly "I am happy to edit what is needed to be edited, or to categorise it in its correct place..." in this 5th point. He didn't look at, or at least chose not to acknowledge this. Especially since he says "there's absolutely...". A dictionary shows "absolutely" as having 100% certainty. This shows that my point 5 isn't absolutely, as I'm asking a specific point about what to change. That invalidates this "absolutely" claim. Also, his reason for the block as stated previously is "Your username is the only reason for this block." Therefore, it is a form of abuse and belittlement, and I will take matters further however I can. You, Daniel, could have explained instead of sitting in a position of anonymity and distance and misusing the perspective of WP:BITE. This applies to how you treat me as a new user, not how I as a new user need help in learning.
As for the perspective that someone presumes I'm only here to edit my own article, and nothing else, once again, that is this WP:CRYSTALBALL, or WP:CRYSTAL that you mentioned in your discussions about me. Firstly, you are NOT ever a mind-reader, nor do you know my intentions (which are all good) or have any authority to judge them, and secondly, you are absolutely wrong. My intentions were to add a fair bit to this site based on the music industry, from what I know. You are wrong in this, so once again, I ask you to reconsider your inaccurate reasoning for banning me. One step further, you can tell me to remove my page, as it's wrong, but to ban me based on this is very very unfair. It would be good, as the WP:BITE page shows, for you to guide me and show me where I can fix these things. I'm extremely disappointed, and if you're the only link here to wikipedia, then I have basis to state some facts based on this treatment to someone who will listen. I feel as though I'm at a university. Being taught a system, and where the system doesn't do according to the things written, but shows off how great they are because of their position instead. Please fix this.
- The problem I had with things was that when it came down to it, you showed zero inclination when it came to editing about anything other than yourself. I told you that creating extensive userpages about yourself was considered to be promotional. I gave you a good example of what a userpage can look like and what should be avoided. I specifically stated that listing all of your songs and writing the userpage to look like an article were considered to be promotional and was specifically against what userpages were supposed to look like. I don't know how I could be any clearer. I even gave you a little mini writeup as far as what you could put down on your userpage as far as yourself goes. The only thing you really showed an interest in was putting your information back on Wikipedia after it was specifically told that the prior format wasn't acceptable and that only very, very brief synopses about what you do is considered to be acceptable. Your userpage can very, very briefly talk about what you do in your spare time but for the most part it shouldn't stray too far from your editing here on Wikipedia. In the time your account was created your edits were solely on your userpage and to try to argue as to why you should be able to create a userpage. Despite you now saying you wanted to edit music related articles, I didn't see where any of that was ever a priority or something you actually did. If you want to edit articles then that's fine, but you need to accept that your prior userpage was considered to be entirely promotional and that you can't post stuff like that on here. We're trying to guide you, but you seem to be dead set against reading the advice I've given you. I'm not going to repost your userpage and go through it line by line in order to get my point across further. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 17:55, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
Well, I will no longer intend to say anything decent about wikipedia. You, Tokyogirl, have given me the example of one who covers over their mistakes by running away, and then pretending that they've helped. Where are these examples you showed me? They should be written somewhere above here, right? See, there's nothing there. Why is that? Did you remove it? No, you didn't. You didn't put anything there, but you still have the audacity and arrogance, along with your lack of understanding of language "I gave you a good example of what a userpage can look like and what should be avoided". Well, if that was true, there should be evidence in the paragraphs above, yes? Just too dumb. As for you Daniel, you're a real Case you are. No anything, except "Derrrr, Oh, you're too nice Tokyogirl", and then block me. I hope you get dealt with by people the way you deal with them. I hope we never have to have our paths crossed, for you're the epitome of rude, stubborn, thickheaded obstinacy. Too stupid for words. Only thing to make you change direction is like how they deal with donkeys overseas. You two have ruined my opinion of wikipedia. I used to edit pages prior to this nickname, but I forgot my password, because of being away for a while. I'll be sure to remember to mention to all who I bag out wikipedia to the two people who made me have such an abominable opinion of using this site. It has become disgusting, because of knuckleheads like you. All I asked when preparing my page was "Why, and why not". Do you expect me to know all the wikipedia rules? You are NOT guides. You are like Nazis. If you have someone classify you as guides, then you'd be the evil guides. Guiding with punishment. I hope you reap what you sow, and the sooner the better.
- We'd given you plenty of reasons as to why the page came across as unacceptable for Wikipedia, and why you (as a random musician) page was not equivalent to bands such as AC/DC, who have received abundant coverage in reliable sources. You showed no true interest in editing anything other than your page, as your claims were pretty much only about adding yourself to Wikipedia in some aspect. If you'd dropped the whole spiel about why you should be allowed to link all of your YT videos to Wikipedia or given proof that you'd edited Wikipedia in the past about things other than yourself, more good faith would have been assumed. You didn't do any of this and calling us names is very unlikely to change anyone's minds anytime soon. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 06:35, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
Just delete it for crying out loud. Stop trying to explain the unexplained and finish it. Go and look at another page now. Delete my account, and don't contact me again. I'd say thankyou if I wasn't enraged at this.
