User talk:Smokefoot/TalkArch2015

Global account

Hi Smokefoot! As a Steward I'm involved in the upcoming unification of all accounts organized by the Wikimedia Foundation (see m:Single User Login finalisation announcement). By looking at your account, I realized that you don't have a global account yet. In order to secure your name, I recommend you to create such account on your own by submitting your password on Special:MergeAccount and unifying your local accounts. If you have any problems with doing that or further questions, please don't hesitate to ping me with {{ping|DerHexer}}. Cheers, —DerHexer (Talk) 00:46, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

Fullerenes

Re. "Undid revision 641402623 by Ankababel (talk) conflict of interest, cite a review by someone else" -- this is an odd remark to make. In most or many cases only one review is cited. A review is a review -- it covers many viewpoints and should be impartial.Ankababel (talk) 14:03, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Pulp and paper industry

Re. "(Undid revision 641569121 by Ankababel (talk) not encyclopedic content - there are lots of interesting debates)" -- this is just style, I removed the "interesting debate" phrase previously. Why don't you just rewrite? Anyway I've done it now. Mea culpa for using unfortunate phraseology. Or are you just anti-nanotech?Ankababel (talk) 14:14, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Dear Smokefoot: Thanks for the comments. So far, the students are quite enthusiastic if a bit nervous. I am also new to this media, so I appreciate your comments and look forward to suggestions in the future!Dbzam (talk) 13:41, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

UG contribs to WP

Hello Smokefoot

I know that you've been using students to contribute to WP for several years, and I was wondering about doing the same. We're just setting up a new course here at Bristol on the theme of Chemistry in the Digital age, and WP seems like a good topic, especially as that's now the default source for anything they want to know. Would you be able to give me a quick rundown of what you do with them / potential pitfalls / benefits?

Thanks,

Chris (talk) 12:32, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

I would be glad to help. First of all, we contribute through a course that is mainly a lab (synthetic inorganic/organometallics for advanced undergrads). This Wikipedia article is worth about 10%. Here are some aspects:

• I do ‘not emphasize Wiki-formatting'. This assigment focuses on teaching them to write about chemistry and learn how to copy-edit, not learn Wikipedia techniques (although they are free to do so, and many do). To this end, in the past few years, I have set up the articles, precluding their need to even register (I realize that Wiki-central command views student involvement as a recruiting mechanism but I have not seen that trend after going through hundreds of students). The skeleton articles that I establish, illustrate referencing, chem box, linking. You can see this approach with the history of iron boride. Similarly, we have shifted increasingly to article improvement, again avoiding their need to register) as illustrated by lead styphnate.
• We try to write shorter articles and this is probably our greatest weakness compared to typical multi-page student essays where they learn a lot about a big area. The emphasis however is on editing as much as creating content.
• Students work in teams. I have about 30 students and supervising 30 articles is too much work to do well (in the past courses we have uploaded many more). Employers of my students want them to demonstrate an ability to work as teams. I am highly focused enhancing student employability. Only a fraction are aiming for professional schools - and they tend to write on academic topics such as Transition metal alkyne complex, Nitrogen-15 NMR spectroscopy.
• Students must get their draft article approved by me as a Word document before they can upload to Wikipedia. It is refining this Word document where they actually learn the most and where I do most of my work - about 2-3 drafts.
• I de-emphasize graphics. Probably nonideal, but students are not very good at ChemDraw and I am picky. We could do more at pdb and csd images, but again this aspect of the course emphasizes writing not drawing.
• We spend a lot of time figuring out topics. For some appealing topics we just cannot find good general sources, so we dont pursue those. We are increasingly turning toward improving existing articles because we are running out of topics and so many existing articles could use help in select themes.
• Although the course is on inorganic/organometallics, I figure that for undergrads just learning to write about any chemistry is healthy, so we write about all sorts of topics. I also meet with them to identify their professional interests, the point being that articles might enhance their employment aspirations and hence their devotion to their topic. Some of their diverse interests have been in beer brewing (see Humulone), perfumery (2-Methylundecanal), pesticides (Pentachloronitrobenzene), antibiotics (Yersiniabactin), explosives (lead styphnate). These are employable topics in the US. Naturally, they write a lot of inorganicky articles too, which are not coupled to employment.
• I prohibit students from discussing tox or safety or environmental aspects, despite the fact that I am a tree-hugger myself. Googling on chemical topics mainly turns up tox - safety - environmental content, often crufty, but I want them to write about hard core chemistry. Students are always ready to fill any article with all sorts of health and safety stuff - easy to get and easy to write about, but not very chemical (unless they figure out the chemical mechanism of tox, etc).

--Smokefoot (talk) 18:52, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Thank you very much; I'll take that all into account. Chris (talk) 22:15, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

Silver(I) fluoride

Hi ! Thanks for your editing. I did reinsert the lab prep bit but maybe we should discuss this (I made a note on the talk) as I'm new to Wikipedia and not so au fait with you do articles. I'd be very grateful for any help ! --TatanyaGolding (talk) 09:48, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

Xenon Difluoride

Thanks for the pointers. I'm not sure if any secondary sources exist for XeF2 etching for MEMS. Maybe I should write that paper :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by KrisPister (talk • contribs) 21:47, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

looks like neat stuff. No chemist would expect XeF2 to be good for anything outside of research lab. --Smokefoot (talk) 23:02, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

My edit to 1, 1, 1-Trichloroethane

Why did you revert my edit? The words "dicarbon trihyrdogen trichloride" would actually be its chemical name using the correct systems. DudeWithAFeud (talk) 02:08, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

No problem. People dont use that name. Its not a big deal.--Smokefoot (talk) 03:03, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

The appellation "dicarbon trihyrdogen trichloride" does not specify where the chlorine atoms are located in the molecule. The 1,1,1- prefix specifies the three chlorines are located on the #1 carbon atom. The isomer 1,1,2-trichloroethane is also possible. 1,2,2-trichloroethane is the same as the 1,1,2- and so the lowest numbering is used. Similarly, 2,2,2- is the same as 1,1,1- and again the lowest numbering is used. The hydrogens are understood to be placed on the carbon skeleton as needed wherever there are no substitutions. According to the IUPAC naming system (IUPAC claims its naming system is the official one.), 1,1,1-trichloroethane is used. H Padleckas (talk) 06:23, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

... and again, people dont use that kind of name/appellation no matter how many numbers one puts before or after it!--Smokefoot (talk) 12:42, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for help, Smokefoot and welcome to my new semester

Hi Smokefoot- thanks for dropping by my course page and giving advice on chemical pages. We haven't chosen our topics yet, although I imagine some chemical pages may be in for some work by my class. I read the thread you recommended, and don't believe my students have been guilty of dropping entire essays into the midst of existing pages. We focus on developing tight paragraphs of information to add to stubs or start class articles. Let me know if and feel free to jump in, of course, if you notice one of mine not following the chemistry rules. I'm fully connected with the Education Foundation (trouble keeping up with the name), used their new page wizard (nice!), and have a couple of them helping out with class. Hakeleh (talk) 01:40, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

@Hakeleh: , the main thing is thanks for the response. The greatest problem Wiki chem has with homework projects is that the students get in over their heads and the instructor is missing in action. The result is that the student insert newsy or narrow Google-able citations in order to meet some quota. I am sympathetic that it is difficult to select areas in Wikipedia where broad, not narrow information is missing. If you look at Education Program:Louisiana State University/CHEM 4150 Environmental Chemistry (Fall 2014), students added low quality content on poorly conceived topics. All of those students contributions were wiped clean from Wikipedia, I recall. I have taught many courses using Wikipedia as a component, and it is a fair bit of work, expecially topic selection and guiding sourcing. Good luck because I know this is hard work, --Smokefoot (talk) 14:20, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

@Smokefoot: Hi Again, Smokefoot. We've chosen many different chemistry pages to work through this semester, and I see that you've visited most of them. Its great for the students to know that they are connecting with a very large community of Wikipedians. Several Wikipedians have worked with my courses over the past several years, and our contributions to Wikipedia have been improved, and the student's experience enhanced. I invite you to spend some time looking at the contributions made through my courses Hakeleh. Unfortunately, thus far, our experience working with you has been very disappointing. I'm referring to the many very insulting comments you have made in response to my student's initial postings on the talk pages of the articles they are beginning to work on. For example: 'When you say "different chemicals that are polymerized" you sound chemically illiterate. It will be difficult for someone with such a weak grasp of our language to contribute useful content?' This was your response to someone's comment on an article TALK page. This is insulting on so many levels, I can't even begin to list them. Also, on many article talk pages, you left a statement like this "Please talk to your teacher about how grown-ups do bibliographic searches in the sciences." I feel condescended to and nervous about contributing further to wikipedia from reading this comment, and I can only imagine what a young adult would feel when faced with this type of 'input'. A key component of this type of assignment, as you likely know, is training in how to find good sources. We've been doing that. The bibliographies listed on the article talk pages are the initial sets of references, and many may not even be included/ used in the article improvements that end up on the main article page. In response to the 'grown up' comment from you one student spent time investigating the list of references YOU added in response to their bibliography and found that, in contrast to the list of sources they listed, your list included sources that were unavailable and that had in fact already been eliminated from the list of sources they will use for the WP entry. This example brings up another very important point: the amount of my time and my student's time that has been used toward reacting to and responding to your input. This is time that could have been much more productively used by all of us to do what we want to do, which in this case is to improve Wikipedia entries. If you feel that my student's contributions to the main article pages are not up to par, we welcome your constructive input. If you feel compelled to add demeaning and insulting comments to their entries, please first contact me with your complaint and I will work on constructively addressing any and all issues with my students. Also, we are currently following the plan for developing Wikipedia entries developed by the Wiki Education Foundation, which includes listing potential references and a contribution plan on the article talk page. If you have issues with this format for student contributions, please discuss it with them.

Thanks for the input. In my experience many or most courses contribute bad content to Wikipedia-chemistry: where students focus on word count, who seem to have little instruction on searching (Googleable, US-centric), and whose work gets little intervention by the instructor. Furthermore, I do think that comments like "different chemicals that are polymerized" is distinctly unpromising for would-be editors at Wikipedia. For an in class essay, that level of awkwardness about "chemicals" is fine, so I wanted to loudly warn them that the standards are higher if they intend to contribute at Wikipedia. I also reminded them repeatedly not to go after these compounds as if they are evil, which has been a pattern previously.

Obviously, these are my views, which you may not share and, to some extent, find very offensive. I saw no other way to get their attention. And even with my semi-shrill comments, we almost never see expected responses from these students who supposedly are reaching out on the talk pages. Obviously they are not reaching out, but simply blurting out statements of what they will do, whereas editors here expect cooperation, consensus, and conversation over plans. I and others were expecting responses from the students like "Got it, we are just learning how to use Web of Science" or "We are cognizant of WP:MEDRS" or "Thank you for suggesting reviews that we had not considered, but why don't you think our sources are not as good?" or "You're right, we were being too US-centric."

Finally, you can however also see that rather than simply complaining, I on several occasions suggested some good reviews for the students to build on. Those reviews are the foundations of their content. In any case, good luck, --Smokefoot (talk) 19:33, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Organic Semiconductor notability

Why do you think the device created by Dr. Peter Proctor and Dr. McGiness was not significant? If there is an organic semiconductor device that was developed before theirs show its picture and WP:UNDUE goes away. I learned about the switch from the Smithsonian chips collection. Are you suggesting the Smithsonian institution is not reliable? Although it could be, the article by McGinness, Proctor and Peter Corry "Amorphous semiconductor switching in melanins." Science 183.4127 (1974): 853-855. has been cited 312 times since its publication in 1974 http://www.sciencemag.org/content/183/4127/853.short. That article documents the work which led to the device's creation.

Citations for the above article. https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=205685824019020802&as_sdt=20005&sciodt=0,9&hl=en — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mhotep (talk • contribs) 17:49, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

I can see where you are coming from, and I really appreciate the note. Two things on my mind

• 1) Proctor was a major fraudster and bully on Wikipedia, who turns out to be an embittered quack who sells hair-growth cures. He promoted this device insufferably (there must have been 6 copies of this image across Wikipedia). The article on McGiness exists only because of his student Proctor's efforts . McGiness was an ordinary scientist who published a nice paper. See John McGinness. If McGinness contribution were notable, he would have been recognized professionally with awards and such (academicians are very good at decorating each other). None of the extensive Nobel literature (reviews by the three prize winners) even mentions McGinness contribution.
• 2) To most researchers and technologists, "organic semiconductor" means a well defined synthetic material. The revolution in organic semiconductor area was the preparation of well defined materials that enabled structure- property correlations. These innovations led to a Nobel Prize to Kitagawa et al., which motivated then editor Proctor to wage a belligerent campaign on any Wikipedia article that praised the achievements of these Nobelists. Hints of his efforts remain in the organic semiconductor article, Proctor's point being that everything the Nobelists were recognized for was done well before them. It is disappointing to me that readers who do not know a lot about the field will the impression that McGinness's contribution was important or that doped melanin is representative of the well defined materials that captured the imagination of the world when Kitagawa et al announced polyacetylene.

In any case, that is my 2 cents. Best wishes, --Smokefoot (talk) 21:58, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

undo revision on photobleaching page

Hi Smokefoot, I saw your rv on the photobleaching page: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Photobleaching&diff=422545059&oldid=422509572

I agree that the paragraph you removed was too arcane for the article. However, I do think that the greater point (that there are various strategies to improve photostability) is important for the article, and that the citation should be kept. Richard☺Decal (talk) 23:24, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Hi and many thanks for the note. I am pretty distracted now to think about this but will do so probably on the weekend. Wikipedia is dealing with a lot of unsupervised students being forced to add content for Wikipedia, and I can be a little too hasty in my edits of their contributions, which are usually not very good. If you think that my edit should be reverted, feel free. We can discuss later. Thanks and best wishes, --Smokefoot (talk) 14:21, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Methyl formate

Smokefoot, first off, I am new to Wikipedia, so I apologize in advance for any errors in etiquette. I saw your edit to mine on methyl formate and wanted to discuss, rather than go back and forth in dueling edits. I did not add the reference to Foam Supplies and Ecomate, but just wanted to clarify that Foam Supplies holds the patent on using methyl formate as a polyurethane foam blowing agent (trade name Ecomate)...and also add that PU foam is used for more than just insulation. I guess this could be considered "commercial", but it is factual and I think relevant (just as BASF is mentioned right above as a producer of methyl formate).

One thing that I do feel is misleading in your edit is to say that methyl formate "has also been considered" as a blowing agent...since it has been in commercial use as a foam blowing agent since 2002. Here is reference showing it has been EPA SNAP approved since 2003: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2003-08-21/html/03-21425.htm

Again, I am new to this and hope this is the right approach to take.

DrGeorge888 (talk) 21:11, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Well the main thing is thank you for your time and consideration. It is usually very irritating to have one's work mangled or modified. Go ahead and revert my edit. I assumed that you were pushing a commercial item, and we are very leery of that kind of activity. A large fraction of edits from newcomers is solely to support some cause of theirs, Happy editing and, since we now know each other, feel free to ask other questions. Happy editing. --Smokefoot (talk) 23:47, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! It's good to know that someone is "policing" these articles from purely commercial messages. DrGeorge888 (talk) 13:55, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Just saw your new edit, and I think you left out some words? What about something like the following? Because of its high vapor pressure, it is used for quick-drying finishes. Methyl formate is also used as a blowing agent for a wide range of polyurethane foam applications under the trade name Ecomate, patented by Foam Supplies, Inc., as a replacement for CFCs, HCFCs and HFCs due to its zero ozone depletion potential, zero global warming potential and zero volatile organic compounds. [4]. It is also used as an insecticide. DrGeorge888 (talk) 15:31, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

YOu are welcome to re-edit. The reason it is a blowing agent is its volatility, and I was trying to unify that property into multiple uses. I was also trying very deliberately to avoid the term "Ecomate" which seems parochial (probably some US brand) and ephemeral (brand names come and go). The global warming bit sounds like a sale pitch to me, even if it is true. These are probably niche apps, the big kahuma being formic acid. My guess at least. --Smokefoot (talk) 22:11, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Could you have a look at the last sentence in that paragraph?

You reverted my edit, which is fine. I am usually willing to defer to you in things like this. However, I believe that the explanation clearly shows the intent to separate the absorbtion of salt and then the lowering of pH. Only the latter would be the case if hydrochloric acid were the intended compound. If you concur, please revert your reversion.

Riventree (talk) 00:58, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

You seem to have thought about it, although it is possible that these old-timers or low-tech chemists are cheaply making HCl, but it doesnt really matter. Now about Rogalite ... You have my attention. Cheers, --Smokefoot (talk) 03:45, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Rongalite smells like spam to me. Checking "What links here", I note that it's only referred to as "Rongalite" in a positive context, whereas the negative contexts have been converted to chemical terms (sodium formaldehyde sulfoxylate) which redirect to it. It's got a chemical data panel, but it's listed by a trademarked name. This is not the way we handle (for instance) Phisohex or Rohypnol. I suggest the page be moved to sodium formaldehyde sulfoxylate, and redirect from Rongalite.

For what it's worth, your phrase "You seem to have thought about it" is pretty rude. Yes, I actually read the paragraph I was editing, and actually thought about it before I changed something. I assure you that's how I normally proceed. On the other hand, you seem to have failed to do either before reverting my edit. Perhaps the shoe fits better on that (Smoke)foot.

Riventree (talk) 22:51, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Oh, I didn't intend my comment in a negative way. My speculation was that you had thought about the process so deeply to convince yourself to insert the temporal aspect when none was mentioned. I wouldnt have thought so deeply but would have taken the process description at face value. Oh well, its always curious how these off-hand remarks can get read when one would never draw that conclusion verbally.

About Rongalite, I encourage you to get that article renamed. It may be one of those terms like Kleenex that has just become generic. Ullmann's Encylopedia uses the term a lot. I would not draw any particular conclusions about the lack of negativism in its description. --Smokefoot (talk) 23:26, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

"Meaningful user page"

I have to say this edit [1] is rather shocking from such an experienced user. I'm not sure where you got the idea that having anything at all on your userpage was even remotely a requirement for low-level user permisssions, but I can assure this is not the case and as far as I am aware never has been. And of course asking "who are you" is way, way out of line. Permisssions requests are about reviewing a users contributions to the encyclopedia, not who they are and what they choose to put on their userpage. In fact, in the hundreds and hundreds of permisssion requests I have personally reviewed I don't recall a single case where a userpage was relevant.

Frankly I think PERM doesn't really need extraneous comments at all, but it certainly doesn't need comments like that. Please don't make comments like that again, they do not help admins make decisions and only get in the way of what is supposed to be a fairly straightforward administrative process. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:50, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Well I definitely got that you are agitated. For those contributing technical content, it is very helpful to know something about the editor, at least for me, but apparently not for you. We all tend to read too much into little notes we leave around here, so dont let my opinions weigh on you. --Smokefoot (talk) 20:42, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

It's not that I'm agitated, it is that remarks like that one are unhelpful, get in the way of what should be a simple administrative decision, and are contrary to our policies. It may be your opinion that you need to ask such things, but I think you will find that pretty much nobody who works at PERM would agree with you and would instead find such comments an unwelcome and unhelpful obstruction. So please, don't do that again, regardless of your opinion on the merits of such questions. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:13, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

It was my intention to be helpful, not unhelpful. I was not trying to cosy up to the newish editor, but tell them what I thought. So, I am sorry that you and your colleagues are cross with me. If my well intentioned remark offended you or the editor, I extend my apologies. In the chemistry sphere of Wikipedia, which I mainly inhabit, editors with blank user pages as well as those unregistered are often problematic. If you want to get a sense of this pattern, look at the editing at water fluoridation, a technology that alarms a small but fierce group of opponents. You will see that the disruptive edits tend to come from those unregistered or with blank user pages. You must have noticed that pattern elsewhere. But hey, this thing is not that big a deal to me and since you seem to have a lot of experience, I will definitely think twice before suggesting to another editor that they say something about themselves or their intentions on their user pages. Thanks for taking the time to advise me. --Smokefoot (talk) 21:48, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Request

Hi, I appreciate your edits but can you please hold off for 1 week? This is a graded assignment and just need you to wait until the quarter is over. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Michael Liao Sax (talk • contribs) 22:36, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Hydrogen spillover

Could you have a look at Hydrogen spillover for me? It was recently created in one go by a single-topic editor but for all that the scope seems broad and the content legit (although better referencing is required). I'm usually wary of essay dumps like this one, they're often full of holes but this isn't a topic I'm familiar with. I was wondering if you had any insights. --Project Osprey (talk) 11:43, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Reviewing a set of article drafts for a research study

Hi Smokefoot! I'm helping some researchers run a study on Wikipedia and I'd like to ask you to be a collaborator on the project (not a research subject/participant). We need someone with experience reviewing new chemistry articles to help us control for some confounds in the study. Given your background in reviewing drafts, it seems like you've got the kind of experience we're looking for. Would you be willing to discuss the details with me? See m:Research:Impact of Wikipedia on Academic Science for more information about the study. --EpochFail (talk • contribs) 19:42, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Homework

Dude wrote this as a homework assignment: Transapical transcatheter mitral valve implantation of the Tiara bio-prosthesis. It's in wiki-limbo with tags a-plenty. Softlavender (talk) 08:03, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

A tidal wave of mediocre content coming from these classes. But we cannot blame the contributing students, their labor is forced upon them in the form of homework assignments. Oh well, life goes on and its only Wikipedia. --Smokefoot (talk) 13:39, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Haha you didn't take the hint and nominate it. :-) I hate doing that stuff. There needs to be a bot that will AfD things at the press of a button. Softlavender (talk) 21:08, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Bromochlorofluoromethane

Why did you delete the molecule photo and the information about its synthesis? DudeWithAFeud (talk) 16:23, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

Your contributions at least for text in the chemistry sector are deficient and misleading, so please stop until you talk to your teacher, parents, or someone around here for advice. About the image, they look awful and did not emphasize tetrahedral nature of methane derivatives. --Smokefoot (talk) 16:58, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

Those really clean molecular structures

How do you make those really neat molecular structures like the ones at hydrogen cyanide, properties of water, carbon dioxide, etc. DudeWithAFeud (talk) 14:58, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

If you are talking about the stick diagrams, unfortunately you have to buy ChemDraw. Pricey but super versatile. Esp the PC version. It is given to me from the place where I work. There are similar drawing programs that are free that are slightly inferior. In the Manual of Style for Wiki-Chemicals, some of these options are described. If that does not work, let me know. Looks like you have a good program for drawing the 3-d structures (the ones that I complained about), what do you use? --Smokefoot (talk) 17:42, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

I use avogadro. has info on millions of structures. DudeWithAFeud (talk) 22:03, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Direct messaging

Hail, Smokefoot!

I wanted to send you a direct message about a new chemistry layout tool I'm working on, but you're not signed up for private messaging. I'm wondering if you could send ME a message with an email address I can use to get in touch.

Your email will of course remain private to me, no commercial blah blah...

Riventree (talk) 02:45, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

Sure, but I am the world's worst Wikipedian for anything like that. V8rik, Edgar, and DMacks - folks like that would be better. --Smokefoot (talk) 03:15, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

Edgar181 is already on my list. If you have contact info, I'm happy to ask the others, or you can point them my way. I have direct messaging so it should be easy for any of you to start the conversation.

Riventree (talk) 18:58, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Reference errors on 14 June

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Separating organomercury from mercury poisoning is difficult, but there is some justification

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AAdministrators%27_noticeboard%2F3RRArchive285&type=revision&diff=668236364&oldid=668223844

SBHarris 04:09, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Note, Smoke

I did not do anything to create the lede that I thanked you for correcting. I simply came to the article for information, and found a wikilink that was not justified. See Vsmith's talk page if you are interested. Cheers. Le Prof Leprof 7272 (talk) 00:24, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Cheers, and anytime you want to correct my geochem, or inorg chem, please, please, please, feel very free. Le Prof Leprof 7272 (talk) 00:35, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. If the compound/article has sulfur in it, I usually have an interest. Best wishes, --Smokefoot (talk) 01:38, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

An Eric Block disciple? In my first graduate year, I had to do calcls and expts on the reactivity of the outer sulfur atom of thiosulfonate anion… enough to make me appreciate d-orbital contributions, but also to be quite sure I was going to be an organic chemist, mdr. Also, vis-a-vis the solids angle, my grad inorg Prof was the veritable and venerable Jeremy Burdett, and so I have a modicum of knowledge on orbital interactions, and the continuum from non-metallic to artificial metallic, etc. Cheers.

Secondary Sources

Have you looked at the article I cited from Science Mag? Its author is Robert F. Service. He's not one of the team who authored the research paper on the cyanosulfidic model. He's reviewing their work. He also quotes an opinion from another scientist in the same field who also was not one of the research team in question. This is a secondary source. Kalidasa 777 (talk) 00:49, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

@Kalidasa 777:Not really, it is an editorial by Service, a technical writer employed by Science Mag. Reviews are written by real scientists, not professional writers. Its a pretty big difference that hopefully you will learn as you advance in your career. But you seem to be itching to promote Sutherland and Nature Chem paper. Oh well, lots of other people do the same as you and it is no crime. --Smokefoot (talk) 00:59, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

I see it as a matter of acknowledging, rather than promoting...Kalidasa 777 (talk) 02:24, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

Of course you view Service's article 'as a matter of acknowledging.' But you are evading the central point, Service's article is not a secondary source. Nice try though. --Smokefoot (talk) 03:04, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

Would you like to discuss this in the talk page of the article?Kalidasa 777 (talk) 03:13, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

You are welcome to discuss the matter there and even transfer this conversation or link it. When we encounter a newish editor determined to cite in the manner you are - the situation almost always involves complication that precludes objectivity. Just don't engage in ref-spamming - the pattern of promoting the research of a single research group by citing the same or similar pubs in several articles.. Many new or WP:COI editors do this. Like I said, do yourself a favor and talk to your advisor about the difference between a real review and News and Views etc. There is also WP:recentism. --Smokefoot (talk) 11:57, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

I'm actually not a new editor, nor am I aware of any COI. Kalidasa 777 (talk) 04:38, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. We can agree to disagree on need for those citations, but there is lots to do. Happy editing. --Smokefoot (talk) 12:32, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

August 2015

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Dimethylacetamide

Hello Smokefoot, I would like to ask you to undo your last editing in the Dimethylacetamide article. Reasons:

1) "and may damage fertility or the unborn child. It is harmful in contact with skin or if inhaled, and causes serious eye irritations." Are the GHS hazard statements already mentioned in the table (H312, H332, H360) and additionally in reference 8 (European Chemicals Agency, Opinion on N,N-Dimethylacetamide (DMAC), 12 September 2014).

2) "because of its toxic for reproduction properties." is mentioned in reference 10 (Agreement of the Member State Committee on the Identification of N,N-Dimethylacetamide (DMAC) as a Substance of Very High Concern – Adopted on 24 November 2011)

3) The only information not referenced is the addition of H319 in GHS hazard statements (Causes serious eye irritation). However here the current Labelling according Regulation (EC) No 1272/2008 ([2]):

 Pictogram:

Signal word: Danger

Hazard statement(s):

H312 + H332: Harmful in contact with skin or if inhaled Causes serious eye irritation.

H319: Causes serious eye irritation.

H360D: May damage the unborn child. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Football90 (talk • contribs) 08:14, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Sounds like a reasonable request - why would unborn children be exposed to DMA? I am sure taht all sorts of things are dangerous to unborn children but I dont see the connection to DMA. --Smokefoot (talk) 16:30, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

In my experience, this sort of label is put on so female workers who are pregnant do not continue work in environments where exposure to liquid or vapor would result in their experiencing a high DMA concentration in circulating blood, which might harm the developing child. Cheers mate. Le Prof 71.201.62.200 (talk) 17:26, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Please have a look

I have a longstanding stalker, someone who reverts me almost in real time when I am making chem edits. It is purely personal, insofar as other chem editors routinely see and read the same text, and leave it. It dates back to me editing this editor's "owned" steroids article. Then he followed me to the natural products article, and has since repeatedly followed me, real time when he is on, or same day, to many, many articles that I sit when I log in. I have repeatedly had to drop editing at articles, because of his following me about.

I am not asking you to get involved in the personal issue. But his latest revert of my work came as I was trying to develop the ledes of both the triplet and singlet oxygen articles in parallel, before leaving it off to someone such as yourself to continue with. (I am an OChem and early preclinical drug discovery prof and pharma worker, and not a PChem/IOChem expert.)

I would ask you to look at the edits this editor made to the lede at the singlet oxygen article, in particular, the large redaction of material. I would also have you compare the ledes of the triplet oxygen and singlet oxygen articles to see what I was doing, before he followed me to there and removed the developing parallel structure between the articles (by removing and changing the lede of the singlet article). Here are links: [3] and [4] (note parallel language), and [5] (note change to paragraph opening, which paralleled the triplet article, and the removal of the entire introductory paragraph). That latter paragraph was intended as temporary, so that others could move material into the main body, as the Edit summaries and Talk section indicates. (But, it was not intended for part-and-parcel elimination.)

Three closing notes -- (i) I added another citation to the paramagnetic discussion at the singlet oxygen talk page, which I know from Dirac's page you are interested in, (ii) I came today to edit the lede in question, in particular to remove citations, which I have since transferred to the Structure section (so they do not have to be repeated in the lede). Still, the Structure section is weak, and needs expert attention. (iii) I am signing this from URL to prevent the editor from stalking me here as well. I can be found at User:Leprof_7272. Le Prof 71.201.62.200 (talk) 17:17, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Well you're not going to like what I have to say. I dont care for your style of editing. It seems pretentious, heavy handed, overly academicy, and your edit notes and tags seem snotty. Too many tags about imperfections. That having been said, its kind of a free-for-all here and it takes all types.

I dont think that you are being stalked. In fact I am grateful for Boghog's diligence because he is a better editor than you are. Do you really think that he wants to follow some academic twit around trying to keep the tone and style somewhat Wikipedia-like? I doubt it. So, if you are having trouble with Boghog, then you may be the problem. I would ask him/her for advice on what to do, because it looks like he/she has a lot of experience and knowledge.

I should say that I avoid conflict usually, my editing activities are some sort of therapeutic thing.

When I first stated editing, I enjoyed for a few days noticing the lack of rigor and derived a certain amount of smug pleasure from the sense that I knew huge amounts about certain articles that were semi-awful. But then I figured out that the regular editors here are essentially totally dedicated to article improvement, managing somehow to avoid nasty comments. Most editors quickly concede to a good argument on technical stuff.

One nice thing about Wikipedia is that the redemption of any user is only a few edits away. Your pointing out that singlet O2 is magnetic was a real coup! Converting that article's lede into something ponderous (IMHO) was unhelpful in my view. The idea is to slightly improve articles and keep them accessible.

Rather than complaining/tagging about poor references - fix the damn problems, one at a time. And for goodness sakes, stop lecturing us. We are doing good stuff. We do not aim for perfection. In fact, for some warped reason, I kind of like imperfect articles because that vulnerability reminds readers that this is a living enterprise and invites incremental upgrades.

Sorry to seem unpleasant. Happy editing. --Smokefoot (talk) 02:31, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

You personal opinions de moi notwithstanding, I would ask your WP chemistry opinions at these two Sections (Talk sections), say what you will. If you can offer an opinion, I would be glad to hear it. (Your objectivity and perspective have been welcome in the past.) Please see these two sections, [6] and [7]. You can also look to the diffs, where you know your way around. I have further comments to make regarding your assessment of me, but these can wait. Ponder, while you go (if you go, there, to the recent lead paragraph deletion at the singlet oxygen article) that the Welsh and the Belgians, peaceable folk that they are generally perceived to be, were, at particular moments of they history, particularly nasty pieces of work to those attacking. Thanks if you can take a look. Otherwise I will come back in a day or two. Cheers. Le CrétinLe Professeur morveux 71.201.62.200 (talk) 05:08, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

OK, I just rewrote the disputed thing. I cant figure out what the arguing is all about and dont want to do super careful comparison of versions. I came to the article completely neutrally. --Smokefoot (talk) 11:13, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

TY. Le Prof 71.201.62.200 (talk) 04:47, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

TY for your hard work there today, and for setting an example for how discussion can lead to community, rather than to an individual's desired outcome. The article is clearly better for your attendance.

Note, I posted a to do list for the lede, and please do not take offense. If I could, I would just edit, but it would only start a firestorm. It is better if I make some notes, and sit out. (And that is what I did.) If the editor in question agrees to stop following and hounding, I will gladly return to this article. But it has not happened yet, and so this. like steroids, natural products, and some others, are on the "do not touch" list. Cheers. Le Prof 71.201.62.200 (talk) 07:23, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

I have prepared

...a brief response to your evaluation, and it is as pointed, and while not as critical of you personally, it may yet not be best posted here. (It is critical of this institution, pointed with regard to its trajectory, and critical of latitude allowed particular editors.) I am open to suggestions, but am willing to place it here, if there is no better option. Le Prof 71.201.62.200 (talk) 16:44, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Hi there, you are welcome to put your comments here if you think that doing so will be constructive. Like I said, I usually avoid conflict around here, but you pressed me to be frank about my views of your editing style to the extent that I pay much attention to them, which I don't except to notice that you seem to be functioning as a grader. Your situation hopefully will resolve itself because the project would really benefit from additional expertise. It appears that the standards and style in Wikipedia do not match your standards and vision for what this venue should or could be. My association with this project is intended as a hobby for relaxation, so hopefully your comments will not undo that pleasant state of mind.

Hi there Le Prof, you are welcome to put your comments here if you think that doing so will be constructive. I am not any arbitrator (or is it arbiter) and dont want to be. I usually avoid conflict around here, but I felt pressed to be frank with you, i.e. that you seem to be functioning as a grader vs an improver. Few high flying scholars, retired or otherwise, find Wiki-chem satisfying, if that is any consolation to you. I have seen them come and go. My association with this project is a hobby for relaxation and general "do-gooderness". Well, I am rambling... In any case, thank you for the courtesy of checking. --Smokefoot (talk) 04:20, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Polyferrocenes

Hi Smokefoot, I would like to thank you for creating some drawings that I've used in the German Wikipedia for an article about polyferrocenes (and ansa-Ferrocenes). Maybe I'm wrong, but I hope you can also help me with respect to the technical applications of this class of polymers. Although I have found a lot of examples for potential applications, I must admit that I'm not sure if those are indeed already technical applications or just ideas. Any hint is welcome. --ZdBdLaLaLa (talk) 19:58, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Hello. There are no applications for any polyferrocene that I know about, and I have looked. The original polymers were based on vinylferrocene and the more recent generation of the ring-opened materials derived from ansa ferrocenes. Neither are in the market place to my knowledge (despite the hype). Possibly, the only commercial applications of ferrocenes are the Josiphos ligands in pharma. Possibly some antiknock formulations use simple ferrocenes. A few companies have apparently invested in ferrocene-based redox sensors. --Smokefoot (talk) 20:58, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi Smokefoot, thank you for the answer. The ring-opened polymers look promising, but from the papers I found it was simply not clear if there were any real applications or not (and at least I would not use ferrocenes as antiknock additives; the precious metals on the TWC would most likely not like it). I will see if I can find something about the redox sensors. Again, thanks for your support and the quick answer. --ZdBdLaLaLa (talk) 21:50, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Slow down!

Smokefoot, your over-fast intervention interrupted my major updates on the chemical "XXX," and I lost all the international footnotes I was just about to add!!!  :(

FYI, I was adding as I found items, which started in the U.S. (whose universities generally have more money, thus more findings, hence the greater number of U.S. citations to start with).

Next time, please use "talk" to fellow users, rather than intervening with changes -- please? And please wait more than a few minutes, in case a fellow user is still making changes to the entry -- please?--Aboudaqn (talk) 15:46, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

@Aboudaqn: Sure - I'll come back later. Please follow WP:SECONDARY (published refereed reviews and books) and remember that one state in the US does not speak for the world! California is a wonderful place but it does not speak for the world!--Smokefoot (talk) 16:10, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

September 2015

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Reference errors on 2 October

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Mahusha

No problem. I was not sure about it. (Talk) 15:02, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Borane–tetrahydrofuran

After fixing this up a bit, I looked in the history and saw it's been often-created and often-redirected...most recently by you. I have no strong opinion or vested interest in it, if you think it's better as a redirect. DMacks (talk) 08:16, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

No, I dont have a particular strong view either. I was following/helping what I thought Edgar was up to. And it looked like the creator was a turkey, not that I am supposed to say that. Thanks for the note. --Smokefoot (talk) 15:49, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) User:DMacks, Smokefoot: I'm happy with the article now. Its original incarnation was just a copy of a supplier's catalog page. But it is definitely a notable reagent in organic chemistry, worthy of an encyclopedia article. Thank you, both, for improving it. -- Ed (Edgar181) 16:42, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

KOH MP

I just posted a talk section on the subject here. I do have some reference books I could check, but I figured it'd be best to keep the source as transparent and publicly available as possible, at least so long as the discussion permits it. That said, if you think that we should cite the books, I'll gladly do that as well.

One note, though - I would guess that, though reference books hinge their reputations on the accuracy of their information, commercial catalogs are likely under legal obligations to ensure the validity of the numbers they present. I'm no chemist, though, so that's pure speculation on my part.

--BartholomewRSP (talk) 16:08, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Interesting perspectives about how different kinds of sources hedge their reputations. But in Wikipedia, priority is given to conventionally books and reviews. Wikipedia studiously avoids commercial vendors. And on-line mirror sites. In fact, Wikipedia does not even view Wikipedia as a reliable source, I don't think. The rule book is WP:RS. Spoken colloquially, for professional chemists, the "Rubber Handbook" is the bible for data, and Ullmann's Encyclopedia is kind of the Encyclopedia Britannica of details. The Chem project is closely monitored by about 10 chem professionals, who rely on outside perspectives like yours to keep things ship-shape, so thanks for the note. --Smokefoot (talk) 16:25, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Understood. I'll go ahead and check the reference books later today. Thank you for your advice! --BartholomewRSP (talk) 16:37, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Nervonic acid

Hi Smokefoot, I’m writing to you because are studying medicine in the University of Barcelona and we have recently edited nervonic acid page due to a biochemistry project. We would like to know why you changed some of the things we have posted. If you told us what is wrong we could try to improve the article. We would appreciate any information. Thank you.

Thanks for the note. I was trying to figure out what is going on with this page and concluded that you must be selling nutritional supplements! A really big issue in Wikipedia is the quality of the references. This policy is discussed here WP:RS and here WP:SECONDARY. This situation gets more serious when the references relate to human health. In that case the standard is very high, see WP:MEDRS. References to .com sources are often a problem. If you are medical students, then I encourage you to rely on great references - such as famous textbooks and reviews in the best medical journals (Lancet, NEJM). Feel free to ask some additional questions.--Smokefoot (talk) 01:39, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

Hydrogen alkalide

Hello, Smokefoot! I've seen your contribution to chemicals topics. I therefore ask you whether hydrogen alkalide based on cryptands (where both H+ and hydride ion are present) may have been reported in chemical literature?--5.15.29.92 (talk) 21:47, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

I am not 100%, but I don't think that there is a soluble form of even semi-naked H^-. I also dont think that even Li^- has been made using the methods used to get sodide. If you really want to get into the closest approach to H-, one approach would be to check out hydricity scales. --Smokefoot (talk) 04:01, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

How about naked proton cation in some compounds? Are there any? 5.15.183.142 (talk) 09:06, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Well you are basically asking for the identity of the strongest acid. That topic is within the realm of superacids. --Smokefoot (talk) 14:09, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Do these superacids in solid state include naked proton cation? By the way, where can melting point data for the fluoroantimonic acid be found, which seems to be missing from that article.--5.15.187.229 (talk) 10:45, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Can helium hydride ion be included in the superacids category?--5.15.187.229 (talk) 10:51, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

I guess if one wanted to play games, then every article could be expanded ten-fold with all kinds of weird and wondrous ideas and possibilities. Wikipedia is mainly focused on serving people operating in the real world. --Smokefoot (talk) 12:51, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Category: Acetates and Category:Formates

Please take a look to the category acetates salts (and formates salts) ... this is pure chaos! Take a look to all articles and the boxes too ... Please consider also the inorganic nomenclature, first the cation and then the anion! Regards, a german chemist, --Alchemist-hp (talk) 00:28, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia can be a little-messy but "pure chaos" might be overstating it. In the past 50 years, there is no difference between inorganic and organic nomenclature. Organometallic chemistry put an end to that! The chemboxes are carefully and regularly monitored so if you see problems, please, please, please alert Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Chemistry- many people would be very interested in helping to fix problems that you detect. Auch, bin ich anorganischer. --Smokefoot (talk) 01:32, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

So please correct all the other articles too: Formates, Nitrides, Acetates

have a nice work ... I corrected the last articles similar to the others acetates, formates, nitrides ... --Alchemist-hp (talk) 19:36, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:37, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

You quite obviously don't know what you are talking about

The splitting of water, frees oxygen and hydrogen. The hydrogen is used to produce ATP. The hydrogen exists as ions not H₂

From the wikipedia article on Photosystem II : "The hydrogen ions (protons) generated by the oxidation of water help to create a proton gradient that is used by ATP synthase to generate ATP." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosystem_II

I don't need to provide a reason for edit an article, such remarks are a "courtesy." When you know for a fact that an edit is wrong then revert edits otherwise you need to show the wisdom of leaving them alone. I suppose you called one of your friends in to start an edit war. That is just plain childish and weak. Do I need to call in someone else on this nonsense. I would but I consider myself too old and wise to resort to such childish nonsense. Zedshort (talk) 19:43, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

I needed to call in a someone experienced. I dont know Boghog from a Adam, he is just an experienced bio-editor who might straighten things out. He could be counted on to remove anything dumb I might write too. So please don't accuse Boghog of being my dupe.

In any case, chemists and biochemists are generally careful to distinguish hydrogen and protons. Anyway, its simple, as far as most of us are concerned, there is NO H2 in anything above algae. Nada. Humans have some in our gut, but that comes from microorganisms down there, not us.

In terms of not leaving an edit summary, you are correct - there no obligation to leave one, its merely a courtesy. But courtesy is not only nice, it facilitates process by communicating with colleagues.

The trick here is not to let oneself get cornered or angry, because then we screw up and say things we regret. Been there, done that. In any case, peace. —Smokefoot (talk) 23:17, 23 November 2015

(UTC)

You have the same problem too many people in this world have, you fail to hear what people are saying to you or you fail to read what they have written. Rather, what you do is hear what you want to hear and read what you want to read and that typically is what flatters you most. That is a display of vanity and foolishness. I said nothing about the production of hydrogen molecules but you hung your criticism on that and continue to address that issue. I don't care if someone is an "experienced editor" of this or that subject, they first must know the basic principles of the subject before they edit or revert someone else's edits. Wikipedia is chock to the hilt with very bad writing and I intend to correct what I see. At a minimum, stay out stay out of the way while others straiten out the convoluted writing that exists here on WP in a plenitude. A horse designed by committee is called a camel, and most of the articles on WP read the way camels look. Finally, your labeling my edit as "baby talk" is pathetically silly and beyond the pale. Zedshort (talk) 12:37, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Jeesh. Please consult other technical editors since you are so displeased. --Smokefoot (talk) 13:39, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Vanadium Sulphate

I have had : 1 Highschool, 1 Community College, 2 University Chemistry Classes ... and I do keep up with the University of Nottingham Chemistry account on YouTube (that has millions of viewers as it is good telly).

THAT SAID,

The Vanadium Sulphate references were inherited from the core Vanadium text.

For some unknown reason this compound is vastly underresearched in spite of the possibility of it helping with respect to the global obesity and Type 2 Diabetic pandemic.

It is unusual that this compound is primarily derived from Diesel Petrol (and high grade Gasoline) refining. It's really bad for Diesel combustion, but somehow good for primates...

I really should add it to a list I am working on:

The items the Canadian TV Show How It's Made has not shown being made.

-- A screensaver from the output of the How It's Made work via a friend I know (so have a laugh) : http://HIM.scr

Eyreland (talk) 05:01, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Be careful, this kind of area is filled with bullshit. All sorts of nonscientists are after some sort of elixir, and are surprised that various salts are "underresearched". There is no (zero) natural role for V in mammals. Vanadium is common in petroleum because the porphyrins which result from decayed chlorophyll (ancient plants) have a high affinity for VO²⁺ as well Ni²⁺. Inorganic chemists at UBC have looked at the biomedical angle involving vanadium.--Smokefoot (talk) 17:59, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Capitalization of the elements
As far as I know, all elements must always be capitalized since c.1550. The common names for compounds don't have this requirement. The label names (on sold products) for elements and compounds, by ISO practice -- must be capitalized. Probably for safety reasons, I would expect that there would be a requirement to capitalize dangerous chemicals so as to allow them to be noticeable in text. My view is that chemical safety regulation universally trumps all rules that grammar regulators might lay down, as about 99% of the grammar people have never had a chemistry class. Not all chemical elements or compounds need to be capitalized all the time, but the dangerous ones need it absolutely!

A lot of grammar regulators don't even have enough since to come in out the rain -- for example most grammar guides never cover 'man' (as in 'Manhole') as being borrowed from Saxon -- and that 'mann' is actually gender neutral in nearly all Germanic languages.

Eyreland (talk) 21:31, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

RE chemical names being capitalized: If you have a good source for doing please alert the community here at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Chemistry. Otherwise such format will be changed.--Smokefoot (talk) 02:38, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

...and be sure your basis is stronger than IUPAC's 2004 recommendation not to capitalize chemical names. That's the basis cited for Wikipedia's current practice to not do so either, as noted in Wikipedia:Naming conventions (chemistry)#Capitalization of elements and compounds. DMacks (talk) 04:34, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

Ambiguous reference

Hi there! I see you made two refs with the same name here. Do you still have the material available to fix it? Palosirkka (talk) 09:22, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

I fixed the problem. Thank you. --Smokefoot (talk) 13:52, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

Plagerism?

Hi,

Regarding (Undid revision 694267113 by Jazzlw (talk) appears to be plagiarism), is it plagiarism to copy relevant information from another wikipedia page (from epoxy)? It seemed like it was good information and that it wolud be relevant to the page I added it to. I was unaware copying from one page to annother was bad, but if it is would you give me a bit more info on the subject?

Thanks! Jazzlw (talk) 05:56, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

Hi and thanks for the note. There is no problem copying things within Wikipedia, but I found a report on-line that was very similar and it is likely that the section we are discussing was taken from there.

From http://www.rsc.org/suppdata/ra/c4/c4ra11318g/c4ra11318g1.pdf: "The simplest resin of this class is formed from reacting two moles of epichlorohydrin with one mole of bisphenol A to form the bisphenol A diglycidyl ether..." the section I removed: "The simplest resin of this class is formed from reacting two moles of epichlorohydrin with one mole of bisphenol A to form the bisphenol A diglycidyl ether..." --Smokefoot (talk) 14:09, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

Hi again. That makes sense, and explains why I was confused. I see you also fixed the epoxy page where I found the content. Thanks for clearing that up! Just out of curiosity, how did you find out about it? Is there some bot that alerted you to it?

Thanks again Jazzlw (talk) 22:35, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

the language looked too slick for the usual editors - me included - so I Googled a word string. cheers, --Smokefoot (talk) 22:51, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

December 2015

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Jmol

re your [8] in Silicon dioxide: "how to remove Jmol?"

Well, you did! The Jmol link is derived directly from |SMILES= input (is what SMILES is for right). So removing SMILES removes Jmol :-). -DePiep (talk) 19:57, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing that out. --Smokefoot (talk) 18:59, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

@DePiep:, I keep meaning to look into a |jmol_override_SMILES= or similar field that could suppress the jmol or take an alternative SMILES string to use for it. There are a bunch of compounds, especially some classes of organometallics and multicomponent clusters, that the SMILES is reasonably correct but translating it to 3D gives wildly incorrect structure. In some of those cases, one could write an alternate structure descriptor that is too nonstandard to be useful for database searches but does give a correct diagram. DMacks (talk) 22:45, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

DMacks Noted. -DePiep (talk) 23:08, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Student-project?

Are Avdarsan and Pierpaolo.cordone students in a class together? Any idea what their academic level or project scope is? DMacks (talk) 22:39, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Not sure, but seems like a good guess. I just rewrote the Hinsberg contribution. If you prefer what was there before, feel free to revert my work.--Smokefoot (talk) 01:47, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

What you wrote is definitely an improvement. Thanks! DMacks (talk) 14:26, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for the encouragement. Somehow I feel uneasy/guilty/arrogant running roughshod over these new editors. --Smokefoot (talk) 18:02, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Please don't bite the newbies

This kind of thing nearly kept me from ever becoming an editor. It would be nice if you could explain when you revert someone's first edit. Just saying. Cheers --ἀνυπόδητος (talk) 19:19, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. Will be more attentive to not biting. --Smokefoot (talk) 19:26, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Vote: Alexa Brown

I made a vote on Talk:Clyde cancer cluster. I encourage you highly to vote on whether Alexa should or shouldn't have a separate article. Thanks. Philmonte101 (talk) 03:15, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

I just dont know enough about the particulars to offer a useful vote. Good luck with your editing. --Smokefoot (talk) 03:39, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Bees

Sure about that? It sounded to me like it "was actually done" rather than "was only talked about". WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:12, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Let me check again. It read like it had not been done for PhCHO itself. Thanks for the note. --Smokefoot (talk) 19:16, 31 December 2015 (UTC)