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Simon1252, you are invited to the Teahouse

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Hi Simon1252! Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia.
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This message was delivered automatically by your robot friend, HostBot (talk) 01:16, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Cricket and Englishness

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I came across your project via the edits of other people, and was pointed towards you by Oline73. However the project ends up being organised on wikipedia (and I am not involved in the education projects at all, so don't know the correct process), I would make a couple of (non-wikipedia) suggestions. I'm not familiar with your main text, but I have watched "Fire in Babylon", which really only has part of the story and dismisses West Indies cricket before 1976 as lightweight. There was far more to it (and I don't mean from a cricket viewpoint, but a political one) than the film even hints at. Second, I cannot recommend highly enough Beyond a Boundary by C. L. R. James. I imagine this would tick many, many of your boxes even given its age. Hope this helps, and good luck. Sarastro1 (talk) 18:14, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks very much for these suggestions -- we will in fact be discussing some excerpts from CLR James' book in class next week. I find the political consciousness of the West Indian cricketers of the 70s to be very compelling, and would welcome any further ideas for how to follow the thread in an earlier period Simon1252 (talk) 17:29, 14 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The best bet is CLR James. There's quite a bit in the book about his own experiences of an English-style education, and its relation to cricket (he was a very decent cricketer). But the best bits are the chapters on Wilton St Hill, George Headley and in particular Learie Constantine. There's also a large part about "political" selections, and how light-skinned/white cricketers were chosen for the big matches in preference to black players. In addition (this earlier period is something of a fascination of mine!), the biographies of Constantine by Gerald Howat or Peter Mason really cover his political thinking and development. The Headley and Constantine articles on here are Featured Articles, and St Hill is a Good article. A lot of work has gone into them, and they are a pretty complete summary of the sources and thinking on those men. Please let me know if I can help any further. Sarastro1 (talk) 19:34, 14 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
What do you make of the section on WG Grace (and Thomas Arnold, etc)? I had planned to discuss this part, since of course the real focus of the class is on Englishness (to be honest, I'm not at all familiar with the rest of the book). By the way, I re-watched the first half of the film yesterday in light of your comments, and was struck by a reference -- perhaps from Viv Richards -- to how the earlier generation (i.e. the generation of the Three Ws) had been inspirational "pioneers": I'm not sure that the film really dismisses them. There does seem to have been a radicalization of consciousness in the 60s, wouldn't you say?Simon1252 (talk) 23:10, 14 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's a very good section in that it's interesting and well-written. However, I'm neither familiar enough with Grace nor with the general period in English history to say whether this is still accepted as a valid view. I've certainly never seen some of his arguments put forward elsewhere, yet he writes very well on Grace as a cricketer. As "academic" cricket writing is relatively rare, James' views tend to be regurgitated quite a lot by other writers to prove a point, but I'm not sure how well they stand up by themselves. For me, the value in James is his writing on the West Indies, and it's relationship with England (which seems to chime with your class).
I think the radicalisation came in the 50s; for some like Constantine and James, it came somewhat earlier. There is probably a link to be made with Marcus Garvey somewhere, but maybe that's going beyond your scope. And I think it began before the three Ws: only Worrell was really "political" at the time. But I think the film is slightly dismissive of everyone and everything that happened before 1976 (there's a comment about how the team played nicely and how everyone loved them, but they always lost. Rubbish!). There's a really interesting story to tell long before that, and I would start with James and Constantine. Or even poor old Wilton St Hill. Richards and Lloyd may have been political, but they were political in independent countries; these earlier men were political at a time when that was effectively not allowed, and they were railing against those in authority who were telling them that they were inferior (explicitly or implicitly). Sarastro1 (talk) 00:38, 15 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Lauren Ashcraft (March 28)

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Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Sulfurboy was:
This submission's references do not show that the subject qualifies for a Wikipedia article—that is, they do not show significant coverage (not just passing mentions) about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject (see the guidelines on the notability of people). Before any resubmission, additional references meeting these criteria should be added (see technical help and learn about mistakes to avoid when addressing this issue). If no additional references exist, the subject is not suitable for Wikipedia.
Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.
Sulfurboy (talk) 02:57, 28 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Lauren Ashcraft (June 7)

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Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by DGG was:
This submission appears to read more like an advertisement than an entry in an encyclopedia. Encyclopedia articles need to be written from a neutral point of view, and should refer to a range of independent, reliable, published sources, not just to materials produced by the creator of the subject being discussed. This is important so that the article can meet Wikipedia's verifiability policy and the notability of the subject can be established. If you still feel that this subject is worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia, please rewrite your submission to comply with these policies.
Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.
DGG ( talk ) 02:45, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Your draft article, Draft:Lauren Ashcraft

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Hello, Simon1252. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Lauren Ashcraft".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. If you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz Read! Talk! 02:58, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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