**User Talk:*Shaan Sengupta***

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Unblock request WP:SO

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Shaan Sengupta (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

Hello everyone, I am placing this Unblock request after I was blocked for sockpuppetry in Jan 2024. I made some talk page edits after that which reset my timer. The last edit I made was on 17th Feb 2024 and now is 18th Aug 2024. So I am making this request as a WP:SO for which I was directed by the blocking checkuser @Yamla. I would like to begin with accepting that I have made mistakes in the past. In my initial days I have been disruptive and my contributions were not always according to the guidelines. But with this account I tried my best to contribute in a generous way and I believe I did that. The only mistake I made was that I did Block evasion. I regret that. I would apologise for that and request the community to give me a chance. For these 6 months I wasn't just sitting and waiting for this time to pass. I made contributions to other projects. Initially to Hindi and Bhojpuri Wikipedia. Mostly on Wikimedia Commons and some on Wikidata. Also the reason for filling this unblock request from this account and not from my original account is bcoz I only have access to this account. My last account JaggaDaaku which I used on other wikis, I lost access to it after my phone was lost. The only way I could get access to it is if I ever get access to my lost phone which still is unlikely. Better word would be nearly impossible. And I also told that sadly I am not good at remembering passwords. And I preserved this bcoz I used this account on Commons. So there is no way I can make an unblock request with any other (original) account. I promise that I won't let the community down for trusting me and am fully prepared to fix if any (I am sure may be) issues still need to be addressed. Thank you. ShaanSengupta^Talk 12:07, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Decline reason:

I find this vague and general apology to inadequately address the extensive sockpuppetry and POV-pushing attested to in the relevant SPI case _signed,Rosguill ^talk 18:58, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

ShaanSengupta^Talk 12:07, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No CU evidence of block evasion. However, you should be making your unblock request with your original account. --Yamla (talk) 12:16, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Yamla Thank you for the reply. I mentioned this at the time of blocking also that I only have access to this account. My last account JaggaDaaku which I used on other wikis, I lost access to it after my phone was lost. The only way I could get access to it is if I ever get access to my lost phone which still is unlikely. Better word would be nearly impossible. And I also told that sadly I am not good at remembering passwords. And I preserved this bcoz I used this account on Commons. So there is no way I can make an unblock request with any other (original) account. Thanks. ShaanSengupta^Talk 12:22, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Yamla Sorry for this ping. I know you have workload and you might be occupied somewhere else. But if you could please act on my unblock request. It would be nice. ShaanSengupta^Talk 14:11, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I will not be doing so. --Yamla (talk) 14:13, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So will it be decided by someone else? Will I have to wait in line with other requests? Just asking bcoz I am not aware of the process. I pinged @you bcoz I had seen in cases, admins asking for blocking admin/CU involvement. Thank you. ShaanSengupta^Talk 14:21, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please don't ping me again. Yes, it will be reviewed by another admin in time. --Yamla (talk) 14:40, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you and sorry. (Not pinging you

) ShaanSengupta^Talk 15:09, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This account was certainly disruptive on Indian topics. I would prefer no unblock without a topic ban from the WP:ARBIPA area. Ratnahastin (talk) 13:52, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Ratnahastin I would request you to kindly provide some examples of what you are saying. I mostly (maybe only) edit articles related to India. And I am yet to be called disruptive. I won't say I haven't made mistakes, but definitely I have made corrections whenever I have been guided. And I am going to continue to do so. I remember our interests were conflicting in some areas and I would strongly like to believe that this isn't bcoz of that. ShaanSengupta^Talk 14:06, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You were criticized for your pro-Hindutva editing on ANI which you had to close yourself despite you were not allowed to do that. Your disruption at Father of the nation was not small. Nevertheless, you did not learn and kept repeating the same POV pushing at this MfD. I haven't even talked about your other accounts yet. Ratnahastin (talk) 14:22, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Ratnahastin two of the links you mentioned are for the same topic of Father of the Nation. Regarding me closing the discussion it was done after an advice from an uninvolved user to continue it at the article's talk page. And that's the only thing I mentioned there. The reason to close was so that the discussion could continue on the talk page and no one else comments there. And my only point was to differentiate the Official vs Unofficial regarding that honor. Like Sheikh Mujib & MK Gandhi shouldn't be kept under same criteria. One has got the title officially by his country, other is just called respectfully by his followers and many of the countrymen. Regarding the MFD of my template, I just put forward my view. Putting forward a view in an MfD isn't POV pushing. Its just mentioning what one sees it as. Anyway I would want to stop here. And once again reiterate that even if I still have some shortcomings please let me know. I am fully destined to work on them. Handing me a topic block of this wide range (ARBIPA) would make me nearly worthless here bcoz most of my edits are in this area only. And I am sure that after 6600-odd edits my track record here will be my voice. Now, The community knows both our views. Let the admins/CUs decide. Thank you. ShaanSengupta^Talk 15:17, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I had a lot of experience of dealing with Shaan Sengupta and my impression was that he was a good editor, who behaved well.^{Interaction Editor} Yes, he made mistakes, and misunderstood things, but new editors do that. I do not understand how any reasonable person can say that this edit to Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Template:User Akhand Bharat was disruptive. (It was Shaan Sengupta's only edit to that page and Ratnahastin lists Shaan Sengupta's edit to that page as an example of Shaan Sengupta being disruptive. Note that Ratnahastin made a "delete" post on that page; but having a different opinion is not in itself disruptive.) With respect of Ratnahastin's other example: yes, Shaan Sengupta blundered; but it was not malicious.
Please could admins unblock Shaan Sengupta. I do not see a case for a topic ban.-- Toddy1 (talk) 15:40, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The fact that he created that pro-Hindutva userbox and then defended it was disruptive.

Do you really believe that an editor who believes that reliable sources like Newslaundry,[1] Scroll.in, [2] The News Minute [3] to be unreliable and he should be unblocked without a topic ban? I don't find any sense there. You are forgetting that he evaded his block for 3 years through socks. Ratnahastin (talk) 15:54, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Ratnahastin I was corrected by an experienced user and after that I gladly accepted my mistake and we moved on. And I can't see a reason that failure to recognise reliability of a source would amount to topic ban. I can't understand the connection between. Regarding block evasion, I have accepted my mistake on that too and this WP:SO unblock request is in accordance with the rules and guidelines only. Again, I would repeat that the community knows both our views. Let them decide. Thank you.

Also thanks @Toddy1. I am glad that I continue to get your guidance. Thank you so much. Means a lot. ShaanSengupta^Talk 16:10, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shaan Sengupta has on several occasions edited with a Hindu nationalist POV. I question if he is able to edit with a neutral POV in the WP:CT/IPA topic area.

He openly identified as a supporter of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, the leading far-right Hindu nationalist organization, with a self-created userbox on his user page. Surely this violates the spirit of WP:NONAZIS? I don't think the Wikipedia community would be quite as lenient on someone who openly declared himself as, say, a white nationalist on his user page.
He supported Akhand Bharat (comparisons have been made with other irredentist beliefs like Nazi Germany's Lebensraum) in another self-made userbox on his user page and supported keeping it at its MfD, saying that he can't understand what is divisive when all it talks about is uniting the divided parts into one.
He repeatedly edit-warred to remove the Taj Mahal picture from Template:User Indian and stated that Indo-Islamic is not Indian ancestry. This reflects a Hindu nationalist belief that the Taj Mahal isn't sufficiently Indian, as it was built during Muslim rule: [4] [5] [6].
He tried to tag Mahatma Gandhi with "unofficial" and removed an image of Gandhi in the Father of the Nation article. As pointed out at AN/I, Hindu nationalists aren't big fans of Gandhi: [7] [8] [9].
He pushed a Hindu nationalist interpretation of the Bangladesh genocide by saying that the victims were "primarily" Bengali Hindus, something that sources don't support. (Sources support "especially" but not "primarily".) Hindu nationalists like to call this a "Hindu genocide": [10] [11]. That being said, I'll give him credit for not outright supporting "Bengali Hindus" in the RfC.

Malerisch (talk) 08:58, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

BJP-type views are mainstream in present-day India. If we want Wikipedia articles on India to be neutral point of view (NPOV), we need to tolerate pro-BJP editors (and insist that they obey the rules).-- Toddy1 (talk) 10:54, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nazism was also mainstream in Germany for more than a decade. Were we supposed to tolerate it? A bigger problem with Shaan Sengupta is that his edits reflect his POV. Ratnahastin (talk) 11:01, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think this should be discussed first, I agree with @Ratnahastin, Shaan Sengupta's edits are however one sided. Regarding the comment of @Toddy1, I think they might be following the rules but still they are causing harm to various pages here, one user has given an example above. The user was still using his account on Wikipedia Commons and various other Wikipedia. ZDX _{(User) |}_(Contact) 14:12, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@ZDX regarding your comment that I was still using my account on Commons and others. It is as per the advice available at WP:SO. Banned users seeking a return are advised to make significant and useful contributions to other WMF projects prior to requesting a return to the English Wikipedia per this offer. Many unban requests have been declined due to the banned user simply waiting six months without making any contributions to other projects. And the first two points of the Standard Offer is It's simple: Wait at least six months, without sockpuppetry or block evasion; i.e. having made no edits, using a named account or an IP address, on the English Wikipedia. Promise to avoid the behavior that led to the block/ban. ShaanSengupta^Talk 14:24, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for bringing all of this out @Malerisch. I will address everything one by one.

To me RSS is a social organisation which carries out social works and strives to protect the Indian heritage and the Indian culture. This organisation has time and again helped the nation, most recently in the Wayanad disaster. If Wikipedia identifies the organisation as a Neo-Nazi, then I am left with nothing to say on this matter.
Regarding the Akhand Bharat template, it is a belief that the country of our ancestors which is now divided into many parts should come back as one again. And by no means I support any violence or achieving it by force. I am proud that my country has given the message of peace to this world time and again. And this concept in my view follows the same principle.
Regarding Template:User Indian it was just reverted twice from both ends. Then to follow the general rule, I started a discussion at the user talk page of the editor involved. We agreed on a common point, and it was modified accordingly. Then he once again removed it. I once again went to his talk page. We sorted it out. Then after I was blocked the user restored it going against that discussion. And Taj is a mixture of Indo-Islamic architecture with Arabic influence. Here we are talking about Indian ancestry. Not a mix of Indo-Arab.
I have already explained the Gandhi thing above. There is nothing like pushing a POV. It was just a fact that I thought should be mentioned. But I left it after I wasnt able to convince the community.
Regarding the RfC of Bangladeshi genocide, I agree that the word especially would have been a better choice than primarily. And I am glad that you accepted that I didn't outrightly supported what was wrong.

If something more needs my explanation I am happy to give. And I will once again say, that I am ready to make any required changes that should be. I know that I have some shortcomings like everyone has and I am ready to address it. I have been away for 6 months. I would request the community to give me a chance so that I can contribute in a constructive way. Thank you. ShaanSengupta^Talk 12:14, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you consider RSS as a social organisation. It shows how brainwashed insane you are. You must've no right to edit in neutral media like Wikipedia. RSS is responsible for the assassination of Mahatma Gandhi. It was banded from India multiple times as terrorist organisation. 171.48.92.26 (talk) 03:40, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello @Rosguill, thank you for your input. I explained everything I could regarding the sockpuppetry. I regret for what I have done. While the past cannot be undone, all I can do is apologize and make sure its not repeated. I listened to every concern by the community and replied to everyone according to my view. I am still prepared to acknowledge and rectify my mistakes when given a chance. Regarding the POV pushing accusations, I can confirm that it wasn't my motive. But if I still have done that I apologise and promise that it won't be done any longer. If the community still has some issues, I am prepared to not make any edit to the contentious topics/pages related to Indian politics. I can restrict myself to improving only the basics if I am allowed. I can restrict my actions if the community asks me to do. Give me a chance, see my work on other topics. Then after a while, if the community regains confidence in me and allows me to edit those pages too, then I will do that. Its been 8 months since I was blocked for SP. In the meantime I was active on Commons. I have made sure that all of my contributions tgere are helpful. I will once again request the community to give me a chance. I would prefer to make another unblock request only after I have addressed every shortcomings that I am asked to. Thank you. ShaanSengupta^Talk 09:01, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You should accept a topic ban from anything about India, given your extensive sockpuppetry related to this subject then you can appeal this sanction after 6 months of productive editing. That would assure the community that you can edit in this area. Ratnahastin (talk) 09:08, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Ratnahastin I would believe that Indian politics would be better bcoz that's the place where I am accused of doing wrong. I am ok with having not edit that for 6 months. Not editing anything related to India means a lot of pages. For example articles about railway station or cities or historical places are the things which are not contentious. But still, as I said if the community believes that a blanket ban on topic India is required then I am ok. I would make productive contributions to other fields and prove my worth. Thank you. ShaanSengupta^Talk 10:46, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

But there are also more than 190 other countries about which you can edit. Then there are also subjects where any country is almost irrelevant such as Pepsi, Medicine, and more. To suggest that you can only edit about India would not be helpful for you. Ratnahastin (talk) 10:51, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You may have misunderstood me on this one. I know there are so many other fields to work on. I just mentioned that not everything related to India is contentious. At top of all this, as I said I am ok if the community thinks that I should be barred from editing India related topics altogether. I will try my best to prove my worth with other fields too. ShaanSengupta^Talk 13:58, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No problem. I will support your next unblock request as you have agreed to a topic ban from India. Ratnahastin (talk) 14:01, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks @Ratnahastin. I am now just waiting for a comment from @Rosguill to see if there is something he needs me to clarify. ShaanSengupta^Talk 14:03, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have any further comments at this time. Any future unblock requests will be evaluated by another admin. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 14:24, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2nd Unblock request WP:SO

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who accepted the request.

Shaan Sengupta (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

Hello everyone. This is the second unblock request that I am making after the first was declined for not addressing the sockpuppetry & POV pushing. Please refer to the thread above. Just for the information I was blocked in Jan 2024 and now Oct is about to end. Now I will try to address both the issues. *Sockpuppetry: My orginal account (which I no longer have access to) was blocked for being disruptive within very few days. I made another got blocked for Sockpuppetry. Then made other and was blocked again for being disruptive and was later discovered to be a sock account. Being honest, I had no idea of SPI policy of Wikipedia until I made JaggaDaaku (referred as JD, hereinafter) and it was blocked for Sockpuppetry. Then I waited for 6 months to apply for WP:SO. As my TP was revoked I made a UTRS appeal and was told to make the request from my original account. As I said, I had no access to that so I was left with nowhere to go. Then I made another mistake and I made this account. I thought this will be considered a fresh start. I was wrong. After spending some time this was also blocked for Sockpuppetry after an investigation report was filed by DreamRimmer and I accepted that before as soon as I got to know about that. Bcoz this time I didn't want to give false excuses. I was again told to wait for 6 months and apply for WP:SO. I will remind that I now only have access to this account and not any others. I had access to JD after I made this one. But my mobile was stolen and I could not retrieve it bcoz of my not so good habit of forgetting passwords. Now I only have access to this one. *POV pushing accusations on India (mainly political) related topics: I would like to confirm that my motive was never to do so. I know I have made mistakes but the past can't be rewritten. All I can do is apologize and make sure it doesn't happen in the future. And I promise it won't. Some users like Ratnahastin and Malerisch suggested no unblock without me being barred from WP:ARBIPA. If the community thinks that it is necessary I am prepared for that. I humbly accept my wrongs and promise to prove my worth when given a chance. Please refer to the thread above for this discussion. I would also like to note, as per the advice at WP:SO, I was not just waiting for 6 months to get over. I have continued making contributions to other projects mostly on Wikimedia Commons and a bit on Hindi Wikipedia. If there is something more that needs my explanation or I need to accept something plz tell me I am happy to do so. I would once again request the community to give me a chance. Thank you. ShaanSenguptaTalk 15:43, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Accept reason:

Shaan Sengupta (talk · contribs) is conditionally unblocked subject to a single account restriction and an indefinite topic ban from all edits covered by WP:ARBIPA, appealable to the community via WP:AN after nine months and, if unsuccessful, every six months thereafter. voorts (talk/contributions) 00:54, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support unblocking with topic ban from anything related to India. Ratnahastin (talk) 15:51, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yamla, Shaan's contributions at Commons look good and I'm inclined to conditionally unblock if Shaan consents to an indefinite ARBPIA TBAN, reviewable in 9 months. Also requesting you run a CU check please. voorts (talk/contributions) 23:53, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No recent block evasion according to WP:CHECKUSER data. Assuming the original sock master account is EditingGodguru, the blocking admin there would be Blablubbs and I see a significant number of sock accounts. That said, I'd be okay with an unblock on that basis, with additionally a single-account restriction. --Yamla (talk) 01:34, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note that I meant WP:ARBIPA, not ARBPIA, above. voorts (talk/contributions) 01:54, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here are the specific terms I'm thinking: Shaan Sengupta (talk · contribs) is conditionally unblocked subject to an indefinite topic-banned from all edits covered by WP:ARBIPA, appealable to the community via WP:AN after nine months and, if unsuccessful, every six months thereafter. voorts (talk/contributions) 02:03, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Voorts & @Yamla thanks for the update. I have already agreed to both the conditions i.e. an indefinite block from WP:ARBIPA (appealable to the community) & single account restrictions. I myself had mentioned that I am ok with all the previous accounts locked globally, bcoz I no longer have access to any of them. Overall, I agree to all the above things that the community has till now proposed. Thank you. ShaanSengupta^Talk 03:08, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Voorts & @Yamla since you two are involved here in this successful unblock request. I have two requests. Can I add images to the pages who maybe are covered under the topic ban. Only images bcoz I have some on commons while I was blocked here. I promise not edit even a letter. Other is can I edit user templates related to India like this one or this one, the later being created by me only. Thank you. ShaanSengupta^Talk 10:51, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, adding images to articles covered by your topic ban would be a violation of your topic ban. It's unclear to me if the templates are covered by your topic ban. Please don't edit those unless Voorts indicates it would be okay. --Yamla (talk) 11:02, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The topic ban is ARBIPA, which applies to all pages (not just articles), broadly construed. I think those templates would be covered. voorts (talk/contributions) 13:23, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you @Yamla & @Voorts. Last question (for now

), Can I atleast make an edit request on the talk pages of the articles so that others can add the images. ShaanSengupta^Talk 13:28, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No edit requests either. You need to stay away from the topic completely. voorts (talk/contributions) 13:34, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello @Voorts sorry for the trouble. But Toddy1 just let me know at their talk page, that I might have violated my TBan with the creation of my user page. I apologise, if I have violated the terms of my unblock, i.e. the TBan. I would request you to delete my userpage if its creation violates the Tban. This won't be repeated. Thank you and sorry. ShaanSengupta^Talk 22:54, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted, but you should create a new one that doesn't violate the TBAN since the page is currently being populated by your meta userpage. voorts (talk/contributions) 23:13, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Voorts

Done please let me know if there is anything in the new page that still violates the TBan. I shall be happy to remove it. Thank you. ShaanSengupta^Talk 01:17, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome back, Shaan! Great to have you here again. – DreamRimmer (talk) 07:13, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank u so much @DreamRimmer. Both for this welcome msg & the way u showed me to win back community's trust & get unblocked. Thank u once again. ShaanSengupta^Talk 11:52, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]