Topical Dialogues

Ghinda's Groves

thank you for cleaning up your comment from the Ghinda page. Were you able to create a page about the personal history of the Italian? If so it might be justified to add them to the WikiProject Eritrea list.Merhawie 16:44, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

John Brooke-Little

Thanks for adding to the John Brooke-Little article. Do you think that it is appropriate to put the KM and GCGCO links first in his postnomials? It would seem that the British Orders and decorations would go before foreign ones. Thanks.--Eva ^bd 00:29, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the comment. I suppose it depends on perspective - in Britain, yes, you would be right, but in cyberspace? I'm not so sure. Perhaps others can advise. I just thought that KM, GCGCO are included, as the text mentions these knighthoods anyway, and they would be far more important than some of his lesser British decorations. In so far as a Knight of Malta is thereby ennobled (but a British Knight of St. John is not necessarily), I would think that in cyberspace at least that should rank first over the other decorations. Cheers. Seneschally 11:21, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is centuries old practice in almost every country of placing their own orders first, then foreign orders by various methods. Attempting on wiki to try to assign some arbitrary ranking of all orders whereby to place foreign decorations in between national decorations is almost unavoidably going to become original_research and/or POV Alci12 13:17, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough; I would support that if it is the established convention, as you infer for wiki too. In the case of John Brooke-Little, being Roman Catholic, and as a member of the SMOM, his knighthood is intrinsic, not "foreign". However, because he was a British subject, his British decorations come first, i.e. his secular citizenship in this case should determine it, and not the "nationality" of the orders, as the Sovereign Military Order of Malta is also recognised by many sovereign states as a sovereign entity in international law, and issues its own passports to some of its members. It would be more complicated for someone who has both British and Spanish citizenship and honours from each. Seneschally 13:37, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Potentially it would for dual citizens, though probably we could establish a primary citizenship (residence or such like). Alci12 14:32, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well said, I agree. Cheers. Seneschally 17:37, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Tyndall

Certainly was me. Seemed and seems very unlikely, so I've added a {{fact}} to James Scott, 1st Duke of Monmouth article. It was also me who removed most of the origins section, but I see you've put it back. It says that one Bethóc married Hadrian de Tynedale. Is this Hadrian the same person as Uchtred of Tynedale, husband of Bethóc, daughter of Domnall Bán? If so, the only descendants I've seen mentioned are those of their daughter Hextilda and her husband Richard Comyn. Bethóc is likely to have been born long after 1040, the current guess is that her father was born in the middle of the 1030s. Angus McLellan (Talk) 14:21, 22 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Lord High Steward of Ireland

Thank you for cleaning up the article I tagged. I have removed the cleanup tag, as appropriate. While I appreciate your consideration, in the future feel free to remove tags you have addressed. Again, thank you for your cleanup effort. Improving the wiki is always awesome. :) Vassyana 22:47, 13 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

O'Donnells of Tyrconnell

I see what you're saying to some extent, but I agree with DinDraithou that the ones which reigned in Tyrconnell are the "main deal" so to speak and are worthy of primary usage of the main "O'Donnell" redirect; the later lines after they fled to different countries should probably have different articles created specifically for them. On the naming, I personally don't see why "dynasty" is used on these articles (DinDraithou's choice). When I made the O'Brien article for example, I put it as "O'Brien Clan" before it was changed. That is the title I'd prefer for these Irish dynasties; ___Clan.

On the coat of arms and the map; the map was derived from a work by WesleyJohnston.com, there doesn't seem to be an abundance of material available on this period (for some reason everything before Cromwell gets criminally neglected). The map on the Tyrconell article is from the 13th century I think. The arms I haven't seen any others to create, isn't the symbolism of the cross one derived from the Habsburg allied Nine Years' War via Hugh Roe Ó Donnell? - Yorkshirian (talk) 00:52, 2 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The "latter lines" as you say, assuming you mean the noble O'Donnells, such as General Daniel O'Donnell and also Count O'Donnell in France, and the O'Donnells Dukes of Tetuan in Spain, and the O'Donnells Counts Von Tyrconnell in Austria, are all provably of the main "Tyrconnell" dynasty - and not descended from other septs (such as from Leinster or Clare). The Tyrconnell O'Donnells by the way, meaning the noble dynasty, should be distinguished from the wider clan of whom they were the rulers, so "clan" would not be appropriate.

The coats of arms: the yellow field and red cross is a variant of the arms of Rory O'Donnell, 1st Earl of Tyrconnell, although his registered arms depict the cross as blue in the office of the Chief Herald of Ireland. The O'Donnells of Trough Castle (descended from Tyrconnell's, and established in Limerick) have a different armorial, with fish and no cross. The O'Donnells of Austria have the hand and cross but also the Habsburg eagle. The O'Donnells of Ardfert have a cross-crosslet in gold against a blue field. all of these share the same motto In Hoc Signo Vinces and the general emblem of a cross with that motto derive from a legend (influenced by Emperor Constantine's vision at the Milvian Bridge) that Saint Patrick emblazoned the cross on the progenitor of the O'Donnells, namely Conall Gulban (son of Niall of the Nine Hostages). It has nothing to do with the Nine Years War (1592-1601), and nothing to do with the Habsburgs. If anything there is a possible influence by the MacDonalds of Scotland. By the way I am Irish, and specialised in medieval history and can assure you there is an abundance of heraldic and genealogical information on the O'Donnells of Tyrconnell. Seneschally (talk) 01:09, 2 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Patrick Denis O'Donnell - Possibly unfree File:PDOD-Capt UNTSO.jpeg

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I can confirm that this photo was taken by me from a photo owned by the late Patrick Denis O'Donnell, and under license from his heirs to use in the global commons and for the wikipedia article on him. Seneschally (talk) 22:12, 29 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Cardinal Patrick O'Donnell - Notification of automated file description generation

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Elizabeth Plunket, Countess of Fingall

Please see Talk:Elizabeth Plunket, Countess of Fingall -- PBS (talk) 23:51, 17 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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