User talk:Schultzdavid

Speedy deletion nomination of Temple Beth Sholom (Miami Beach, FL)

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Thank you.

A tag has been placed on Temple Beth Sholom (Miami Beach, FL), requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article seems to be unambiguous advertising that only promotes a company, product, group, service or person and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become an encyclopedia article. Please read the general criteria for speedy deletion, particularly item 11, as well as the guidelines on spam.

If you can indicate why the subject of this article is not blatant advertising, you may contest the tagging. To do this, please add {{hangon}} on the top of Temple Beth Sholom (Miami Beach, FL) and leave a note on the article's talk page explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would help make it encyclopedic, as well as adding any citations from independent reliable sources to ensure that the article will be verifiable. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Tryptofish (talk) 20:04, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

I've moved it to your user space, at User:Schultzdavid/Temple Beth Sholom (Miami Beach, FL), where it will be safe from any deletion issues. I've got it on my watchlist. Let me know if you need any help. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:33, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your help. Any better? I've tried to eliminate adverbs and adj. Just the facts, m'am, just the facts. Schultzdavid (talk) 21:59, 18 December 2010 (UTC)Schultzdavid (talk) 21:43, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Glad to help. I've done some minor cleanups in addition. First, I'd suggest making the tone a little less in the direction of praising the Rabbi, because it still comes across that way. Then, and most importantly, you will need to make the article compliant with WP:ORG. As it stands now, the page is no longer at serious risk of speedy deletion, but it could well be taken to deletion discussion, because you have only sourced it to its own website. You need to be able to reference secondary sources, as described at WP:ORG, in order to prove that the page satisfies notability, a core requirement for retaining an article on Wikipedia. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:14, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

P.S. Since you are now out of danger of speedy deletion, you can feel free to take your time and familiarize yourself with those policies and guidelines, and look for sourcing. If you'd like help, you might also consider asking at WT:WikiProject Judaism. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:50, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Typotofish--I've tried adding a couple more references, though I can't seem to get them in the right order. Overall, is it any better? Thanks.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Schultzdavid (talk • contribs) 15:43, 15 January 2011

I fixed them. And with the new sourcing, my opinion is that the page passes WP:N. Congratulations on creating your first encyclopedia page! I suspect there will still be things that will need to be edited (still a little too heavy on the praise), but it is unlikely to be deleted. I'll continue to watch it. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:26, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Sorry. This is my first Wiki page. I've attributed the pictures to a website. We were given permission from the site to use the pics. Thanks.

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Sorry. This is my first Wiki page. I've attributed the pictures to a website. We were given permission from the site to use the pics. Thanks.

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Thank you for your cooperation. --ImageTaggingBot (talk) 04:36, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Sorry. This is my first Wiki page. I've attributed the pictures to a website. We were given permission from the site to use the pics. Thanks.

Problems with upload of File:TBS EXT NS IMG 2.jpg

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Thank you for your cooperation. --ImageTaggingBot (talk) 04:36, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Sorry. This is my first Wiki page. I've attributed the pictures to a website. We were given permission from the site to use the pics. Thanks.

License tagging for File:TBS INT MS IMG 1.jpg

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Sorry. This is my first Wiki page. I've attributed the pictures to a website. We were given permission from the site to use the pics. Thanks.

Your recent edits

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Commons

Hi David, I got your message and looked into it. What has happened is that two other accounts, User talk:Aju lion and User talk:Southern jew, look superficially like they are similar in their editing histories to you. Someone at Commons noticed this, and thinks that you are involved with WP:SOCK. (In the unlikely event that this accusation is true, you need to come clean immediately, but I do not believe it.) The copyright thing is secondary, not really the central issue. I have filed appeals at Commons of all of the delete requests, and have communicated with administrators there that I believe that this has been a case of mistaken identity. For the moment, that's all that you or I can do, but I promise that I will continue to pay close attention to it. I feel very bad that you got caught in the middle of this, because everything that I can see tells me that you didn't do anything wrong. Hopefully, this will all be cleared up soon. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:56, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

P.S. Please don't think that this is typical of Wikipedia. It isn't. Just a rotten case of bad luck. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:59, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks so much for your patience with me. And doing that research is sincerely appreciated. I was getting frustrated, but realize it's a process. Hopefully it will be smooth sailing from here on out. Have a great weekend. Schultzdavid (talk) 4 February 2011 (UTC)

I've communicated more with the Commons administrator, and I'm afraid that I now have to agree with him that all of the image files must be deleted from Commons. I've also deleted them from the article here. Unfortunately, I had not previously read the letter you got from the architect, but I have read it now. To be at Commons, the permission must satisfy Wikipedia:Text of Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License. What the person from the architect's office said does not accomplish that. They set conditions on the use of the image that absolutely fail those criteria.

You have two options now. One is to have the article stand without images for the time being. That is the option that I recommend to you. I know that it must feel disappointing to you after the effort you have put into it, but it's really OK to have an article without images. Over time, maybe some properly licensed images may become available. Also, perhaps you can find some truly free images of Judaism-related materials (look for them at Commons), or maybe of the founding rabbi, that could be used instead.

You have another option, but I recommend against it. As the administrator said at your Commons talk page, you have, in theory, the option of uploading the files locally at Wikipedia, but it would probably end badly. You had originally done it that way, and they were already deleted, and I'm pretty sure it would happen again. The letter from the architect would have to satisfy all ten of the rules listed at Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria#Policy. Editors at Wikipedia are very strict about those rules, and in my experience, the best you could hope for would be an argument over rule #8, in which you would have to argue that our readers cannot understand the article without the images. My experience is that there will absolutely be other editors who will argue (with bizarre vehemence, in my opinion) that of course it's possible to learn about the synagogue without those photos, and they will win the argument. So I think that would be a waste of effort. Sorry. --Tryptofish (talk) 16:09, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Follow-up: Just so you know what drew the initial suspicion, it was this. But the good news is that a Wikipedia:CheckUser investigation showed that you are working from a different location on the Internet than that person was. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:50, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Some alternatives

Looking at some related articles, I found File:Stephen Samuel Wise.jpg, which is entirely free, but admittedly his relationship to this page is dubious. If you want to look around Commons, first go to Commons, then use the Search box at the top to go to "Category:Judaism", and then look around from there. Finally, a very simple solution occurs to me! I assume that you are a member of the congregation and therefore live in the area. If you or someone you know has a reasonably good quality camera, all you have to do is to take your own photos, which you own yourself, and you are free to license them yourself to Commons. That gets around the problem entirely. (But I suggest waiting on that until the Sock issue there gets resolved.) --Tryptofish (talk) 16:26, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

What if I took my own pictures? Would that work? My only question is, how do these synagogues us pictures and I can't?

         o http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Sinai_(Oakland,_California)
         o http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valley_Beth_Shalom
         o http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beth_Sholom_Congregation_(Elkins_Park,_Pennsylvania)

Schultzdavid (talk) 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Look carefully at each of those pages. For each image, click on the image itself. It will take you to the file page for the image. Then look at what it says about licensing and authorship. In each case (well, actually there may be an image or two on the Elkins Park page where they may find themselves getting a close look!), the photographer is a Wikipedia editor, as opposed to getting the photo from a commercial source. So, that's the answer to whether your own photos will work: yes! But first, keep an eye on what's going on at the sock page: [1], and don't try to upload anything until we get that mess completely cleared up. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:34, 4 February 2011 (UTC)