User talk:Saturn HT
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jonkerz ♠talk 15:04, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
Poles
[edit]All Poles are not of entire "ethnic" West Slavic descent and it is inappropriate to claim so, especially considering Poland's large minorities over centuries due to religious tolerance. Linguistically, it is mentioned in Polish language article that it is a West Slavic language. Otherwise, modern Poles are simply Central European in relation to the area they inhabit, like the French people article. No changes are necessary. Oliszydlowski (talk) 16:29, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
I do understand the French people scenario but your claim that not all poles are entirely West Slavic is true but mostly Poles are genetically Slavic [1] @Oliszydlowski: Saturn HT (talk) 16:43, 15 May 2020 (UTC) Actually Czechs are less Slavic than Poles. @Oliszydlowski: Saturn HT (talk) 16:51, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
- The source you provided says "Please be aware that the maps are very approximate", which doesn't justify it. I understand what you're saying, but per Wikipedia:Neutral point of view I think it is best to state in the very first sentence the geographical placement of the Poles rather than speculative/approximate (whether right or wrong) info. The lead already says that Poles are descendants of Lechites, which were a composition of West Slavic tribes inhabiting modern-day Greater Poland and eastern Germany, and which are closest ancestors of the Poles. Derwich, Marek and Żurek, Adam. (2002). U źródeł Polski (do roku 1038) [Foundations of Poland (until year 1038)]. Wrocław: Wydawnictwo Dolnośląskie. ISBN 83-7023-954-4. also states that Poles have a strong relation to tribes pre-dating the migration and settlement of Slavs, Balts, Celts or Germans into contemporary Polish territory. Hence, I'd say it is best to leave it out. Oliszydlowski (talk) 17:01, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
Even i think its best not to speculate but ever other article states that Poles are West Slavic and are genetically closer to the Slavs than to Germanic peoples or Celts. See no one is 100% anything in Europe due to centuries of intermingling. Please have a look at this. [2] [3] @Oliszydlowski: Saturn HT (talk) 17:29, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
- Yes that's true and obvious, basing root origin of most of the words in the Polish language and the outline of Old Polish. But the article concerning Polish lang. already states "is a West Slavic language of the Lechitic group." I'd include the "West Slavic Lechitic people" in the lead of this article if its title was "Ethnic Poles". But this one relates generically to inhabitants of Poland or its citizens, which inhabit Central Europe and are speakers of the Polish language. Hence, it is very neutral as it suggests that they are 'people who speak a Lechitic/West Slavic language' without genetic classification, thus entailing all citizens of Poland. Oliszydlowski (talk) 17:46, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
I understand what you are trying to say and I think it would be the best to add "Poles are a West Slavic ethnic group and nation native to the Poland" because there are no seperate articles about ethnic Poles. Even if you keep the genetics part aside, linguistically and culturally ethnic Poles are West Slavic. @Oliszydlowski: Saturn HT (talk) 18:01, 15 May 2020 (UTC)