User talk:Sarujo/Archive 2

This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Piccolo and Trunks

Hey Sarujo, think you can come up with something to support the inclusion of the super strength and speed categories for Piccolo and Trunks? All of the Z-Fighters are covered sans them. Now I know we can agree that they possess these skills, but I can't quite find anything to verify it per policy. What can you come up with? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 01:45, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm not too sure. I do know that in one of the Perfect Files there a section that discuses Trunks, but about his powers, I'm not sure. Right now I'm holding out hope on what the later Daizenshu's have as it was stated by Beckett that Toriyama went on record saying things like that he purposely differentiated Present Trunks' personality some to reflect his upbringing in the peaceful times. It was my understanding that trivia such as that was sourced from the Daizenshus, but they never go into any detail on which volume. Now that you have brought this up I realize that I wrote that section without a single reference :P. Currently I feel really lucky that I obtained what I did so far. But at the time I figured that kind of information went without proof.

As for Piccolo, I was holding out until I worked the courage to consider a merger of both Daimao and Junior in the same manor as I've done with Trunks. After the fiasco I went through with that article I'm a little skittish about making any suggestions about Piccolo.

Also, just point out I'm keeping tabs on the Vegeta article also. Right now I'm not liking what I'm seeing with the history section. I'm also thinking about a rewrite of that section. There's just too much biography on that character. I mean my belief was that all the Dragon Ball character articles went by the same format and structure as the Goku article. Sarujo (talk) 02:38, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

I see. There anything you can interpret from the manga? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 03:26, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Like what, characters or techniques? Sarujo (talk) 04:09, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Techniques. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 04:28, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, not at the moment I'm working on geting those big boy mangas Viz just put out which feature the original colorized chapters from the original Weely Shonen Jump publications. But as for manga that I own that might be of some use are the first eight Z chapter that Viz put out in 1999, back when they were releasing standard size issues with two chapters per issue. In my case, I only acquired four issues in a special four pack at K-Mart. As I recall the Makankosappo was called "The Light of Death" and Piccolo speaks in Yoda'ish diologue, "Then why do you come here!? Wish you to die!?", which was alittle confusing for me at first. Also, Viz states about the Kamehameha in a subliminal note that Quote: "The "Kamehameha," both the name of a great Hawai'ian king (1801-19), and Goku's great Hissatsu Wazu or 'Desparation Move'...!". Sarujo (talk) 04:50, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

I can see that backing for Piccolo are all coming along. I'll go to the book store or Walmart and look through the chapters that Trunks appears for what to use. Sarujo (talk) 07:03, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks man. Do they sell comics at Wal-Mart nowadays? ... Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 15:17, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

At my Walmart in the book sections, mainly where they sell the the teen girl books they will feature some Viz publications Dragon Ball Z, Bleach, Naruto, and Fruit Baskets. I did manage to buy the first volume of the Kingdom Hearts adaptation which I found unusual as I pratically never see any Tokyo Pop publications at over there. I'd usally would go to the book store in the mall to get anything published by them like I did with FLCL and .hack//Legend of the Twilight. Sarujo (talk) 02:13, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Hope that was ok. I trust you found something by now? I'm re-reading my Dragon Ball volumes to see if I can actually cite stuff for Piccolo before writing in data. But is it ok if I leave Trunks in your hands? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 05:20, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

My thing about that was it was writen like an after thought. Like "Oh by the way, did I mention he's really fast, really strong". But I can take care of that once I get the oportunaty to see those manga chapters.

What I'm really worried about is finding backing for the reception section. I can use all the help I can get for it as I don't any anything to backup my claim that TOM delelved a message to the viewers not send in Trunks fan art to be shown the first Friday of every month on Toonami as he had not been introduced at that time. Sarujo (talk) 06:16, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm pretty tired so I'll get back to observing the Piccolo Junior fights later. But yeah, take your time with that ;) Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 06:24, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

So, in case you weren't aware, I made upgrades to Piccolo. How's it looking? I wasn't able to "cite" super strength per se, so here's to hoping I'll find stuff when I look through my DBZ manga this weekend. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 07:14, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Looks great. Yet shouldn't it be mentioned that the Makankosappo was called "The Light of Death" in the Viz adaptations?

By the way, have you seen the updates to the Trunks page and the talk page? Also, you might want to take a look at the newest section on this page. Sarujo (talk) 08:55, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

I am watching the Trunks article, at least for now. I was the one who asked User:Mattisse to perform the copy-editing, but it appears it has to be cleaned up first (go figure). As for the Viz abilities, I'll leave that stuff alone since I'm not good at using {{nihongo}} for those kinds of things. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 17:41, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Do you think you can also get a nihongo for Piccolo's "Super Giantification Spell"? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 00:48, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

I have been looking and it driving me nuts, just like "Final Shine". The only thing I can find is 超巨身術. Which So far comes out as chō ?? jutsu. The name "Super Giantification Spell" just may very well be another Viz term.

I've also been looking at the Trunks article, and I'm impressed with some of changes. some of the new wording was what I wanted to put in, but I kept drawing a blank everytime. I know what to say but the words escape me. Sarujo (talk) 06:27, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Ok, the only ability I have to emphasize on Piccolo now is his telepathy. Too exhausted to do that tonight though. I'll probably get to it within a day or two. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 06:56, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

A quick question, what chapter does Daimaō and Junior each first appear in? Sarujo (talk) 11:58, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Piccolo Daimao is first referenced in a flashback by Roshi. He makes his actual debut a few pages later. His son/reincarnation is about two volumes afterward. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 20:25, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Is he actual seen in the flashback of is it like like when Roshi recounts of Goku's Earthbound origin? Where we get only get a panel of dialog and we have to use our imagination for visualization. Sarujo (talk) 00:09, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Nah, just his silhouette is seen in a background. When he actually first appears, he's old. As for dialogue, he starts talking on the same page. That answer your questions? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 17:29, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, I need to know the chapter that Junior appears, is it Shenlong Resurrected! or New Challengers? Or was even seen as a child in the manga at all? As I recall in the anime he is seen imedialy after he hatches and kills two bystandars. Also, I remember this appearing in In the Name of Piccolo Daimaō, I think. Sarujo (talk) 19:58, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

The title of the chapter? Viz calls it "The Reunion". It only shows the egg hatching, thus him appearing as a child, in the anime (IIRC he burned down a house, attacked a family, and later sunk a ship with its crew; all this is filler content). What's In the Name of Piccolo Daimaō? A video game? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 20:34, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

In the Name of Piccolo Daimaō is one of three short side stories that focuses on a certain character from their point of view, in their own words. This appeared in Weekly Shonen Jump Special Edition: Dragon Ball Z Anime Special. The other two stories are High Pride!! Saiyan Prince Vegeta found in Weekly Shonen Jump Special Edition: Dragon Ball Z Anime Special II which retell Vegeta's life up to his reserection on Namek and Lonely Future Warrior!! Trunks from the Bardock special animag adaptation which retell the Trunks Special and Trunks' adventures in the past. And to recant, I just went over the story and it only focuses in the first three pages on surviving and growing in one short year. "But durring that time if any foolish human had ask me my age and I had replied "One year old" they would have certainly had a great laugh".

So just I'll just say chapter 167 is the official appearance. I now have something to work with. Sarujo (talk) 00:08, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Interesting, I'll look into that. May I ask what it is you're working on or is it a surprise? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 00:13, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Nothing much just the Weekly Shonen Jump dates, as I feel those are the true first dates for character debus and such. I had the exact dates for the first and final chapters on the main page but Collectonian removed them on the count of I used the start date format "{{start date|1984|12|3}}" in the infobox. I don't really see what the taboo about start date is, alot of editors have gone behind me and replaced them with no explanation. Anyway right now I'm trying to figure how I'm going to piece this into the Piccolo article like I've done for Vegeta and Trunks. I'll also get dates for the others with the exception of Goku and Bulma since the debuted in the first chapter, that goes without saying, unless the date Goku is first seen as an adult has any importance. Sarujo (talk) 01:42, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

As you may have noticed, I finished up with Piccolo's abilities section last night. Still no reference for super strength though. How does the grammer look? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 17:06, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

All-in-all, it comes down to Daimaō's debut in Weekly Shonen Jump #35 as August 10, 1987. I'll list that here for now for document purposes. As for the section the flight part can go up top with his other "essential" abilities and his attacks can all go in the second paragraph. Sarujo (talk) 00:20, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Oh yeah, I was gonna source that too but wasn't sure which instance(s) he was flying. You can't really tell if those first times couple of times he is high jumping or flying until way later. But he probably uses that skill the most anyway right? So wouldn't it better if it is mentioned before the others? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 02:01, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

What did you mean by "emidiate"? I suppose you wanted to say "immediate"? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 17:07, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I was in a hurry.

I'm now sighting DVDs for anime mentions in the Trunks article. I've also knoticed that Wrath of the Dragon and the Boxsets have ISBN codes that can be used. Sarujo (talk) 17:30, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

I think the kanzentai links were much better before this change. I'm pretty sure they met the standards of WP:RELY. Why don't you keep them as references too? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 22:38, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

I wasn't sure, so I was playing it safe. As that improper sources tag was still in place. The same can be said about the Robot Chicken change I made. Sarujo (talk) 22:45, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Hadn't noticed that one. Won't you bring 'em back? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 22:59, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Okay, but if they turn out to be a problem I'll alter them again. You want me to do the same for Robot Chicken as it was a wiki? Sarujo (talk) 23:15, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Sure ;) Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 23:22, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

To clarafy, the reason I felt that links to Kanzentai were not permited was from a discussion at the Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!! talk page. Where Collectonian states "Fansites are not a valid source". Sarujo (talk) 15:06, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Damn, now you tell me this? If that's true, then the other refs were preferred. You're sure of this? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 19:47, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I wasn't aware that you didn't know. Yet it would be good idea to bring this up to Collectonian before any drastic changes as they might not be aware of something or I'm just reading into things.

The same can be said about reliability of the Robot Chicken source as it come from another Wiki. As I read in the Yamcha talk page sources from IMDB were also not acceptable due to unreliability. Contributing to what got it's GA status revoked. So with that I frantically replaced what I could in the voice actors sections of Goku, Trunks, and Vegeta with those from ANN as that site was considered reliable. Sarujo (talk) 22:06, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

So have you checked with Collectonian yet? Also, can you take a gander at this edit? I'm uncertain if (s)he is correct. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 19:30, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

The idea was to go to the Dragon Ball work group talk page to start a discussion to get a new consensus on the matter. But it seem that the talk page has become a ghost town like the Transformers work group. I know that everybody has their own daily grind of work, school, and arons. But my thing was, for every person who couldn't help on these projects there was another that could. I've also realized that Collectonian doesn't just respond to just any message. As I recall, I once asked for her help on some of the Transformer character articles as they are filled with nothing but fancruft. But I got no responce. Maybe we can get another article asessment to get some more direct feedback like with the Yamcha article.

As for that edit, I'm not sure I'll look it up. Sarujo (talk) 20:08, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, it appears that we were both wrong the Japanese is ピッコロ大魔王. That's what I get get for not paying attention to what I'm doing. Sarujo (talk) 20:27, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Hey, why not ask at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga? There's a lot of activity there. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 22:14, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Well it appears that both sites are off limits here as stated here. I also posed the question about We Gotta Power. Sarujo (talk) 23:02, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

With all that has been said in those discussions, I go ahead an change those references back if no one objects. Sarujo (talk) 00:41, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Yep, that would be for the best ;) Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 19:33, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

What chapter is kid Trunks first seen as a Super Saiyan? Sarujo (talk) 01:55, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm looking through DBZ volume 20, but can't find it. Should be there. I'll check it again later on tonight. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 02:55, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Got it, DBZ:235 • "Fathers". Heh, it's on page 122, wonder how I missed it the first time ... Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 05:05, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

I have added a great deal of refs for Trunks and added the apropreat cites per info from Collectonian. So should I expect to hear from Mattisse soon. As she stated on the talk page "Also, there is not a clear "Plot" section. How and when does Trunks incarnate and how does this relate to the general history of Trunks?". It was my belief that the plot was visable in those two sections and the Future Trunks stated he was a time traveler. Thus producing incarnate. So I guess they just didn't get anything out of the article current revision. Maybe I should to go to their talk page to help out. As I really don't see the need to brake the sections down any futher than they need to be. Sarujo (talk) 17:04, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Something about Trunks worries me. That last sentence in the lead:

"His future incarnation can be compared to Ackman, a character from another manga by Toriyama called Go! Go! Ackman."

Wikipedia policies say that this kind of information needs to be confirmed despite any obviousness (WP:V, WP:OR ...). I know it may sound silly, but do you know of any reliable references? An analysis can't work either. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 21:23, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

I can't argue with that. Even though if any manga or gaming critics would find the the connection too good to pass up. There still need to be someone important and legal discussing him in some kind journal. So I'll just remove it. Maybe we can add a see also for Ackman. It's times like this I wish that stuff was licened domestically. Better yet if sites like IGN started reviews of such things like characters and soundtracks. Sarujo (talk) 22:07, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

By "him" do you mean Tori? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 23:27, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

I meant Trunks. Not to say there isn't already some stuff out there already. Their just not covering the right stuff or asking Toriyama the hard hitting questions. Like what inspired Trunks, Vegeta, Ackman, and even Pink's designs. Sarujo (talk) 00:23, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

OK. But you don't have to take it off if there may be a source out there. Why not resort to {{fact}} tagging first? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 00:33, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

I just found a comment on Trunks from the Otaku USA review of the season four DVD Box set as seen here. "Revealing himself as fan-favorite Trunks—the fully-grown son of Bulma and Vegeta—he’s returned to warn all of the fighters that a group of androids are approaching, harbingers of the type of world-wiping doom they’d all do well to stop as soon as possible". I wonder if that can be used? Sarujo (talk) 17:33, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Prolly, in the Future Trunks section. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 20:25, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

The writer calls him a fan favorite. I was hoping that it could be added to the reception section. Sarujo (talk) 20:36, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Actually, you're right. Makes more sense to mention it there. Didn't Masi Oka from Heroes also say that Trunks is his favourite? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 20:44, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Not sure, what interview would have appeared? Sarujo (talk) 21:23, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, there's this. It's an interview, but I can't find anything stating that he admires Trunks. His character in Heroes makes a reference to Trunks though. Any way you can implement that in the article? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 00:05, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm, I'm thinking maybe to bring up that Oka has compared characters due to time travel and swords. Davila should have seized the opportunity to ask "Is he your favorite character". Sarujo (talk) 00:27, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

LOL, yeah ;) Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 00:30, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Edit Summary

This made me chuckle. ^Law _shoot! 04:19, 2 January 2009 (UTC)